Classic Conversation Thread

[filmlover]

In more positive news, seems like Universal Orlando's official reopening went well today. They even had the shoot of a commercial going on.

 

 

 

[RichWS]

This Mark Ruffalo twin brother thing is straight up misery porn.

[filmlover]

Just now, RichWS said:

This Mark Ruffalo twin brother thing is straight up misery porn.

I haven't even watched the latest episode yet cause the world is already depressing enough. Might just wait until it's done to watch the rest (which is next weekend). I keep expecting Ruffalo via his narration to say "and then this next horrible thing happened" in a completely ironic tone.

[DeeCee]

 

[dudalb]

12 hours ago, cannastop said:

The cause is defunding and disbanding police.

And who is going to keep criminals from going hog wild in the meantime?

[dudalb]

12 hours ago, Plain Old Tele said:

Our current law enforcement system is over-funded, over-militarized, under-trained, filled with bad seeds, and is trained to close ranks and defend their clout and power no matter what. Police departments in large cities are perilously close to being nothing more than protection rackets, shaking down city budgets for ever-increasing amounts of money. There are indeed good policemen and women, but the system is designed to grind them down and force them to conform. “Us against them” is the mentality, and “them” is anyone who’s not a cop.

 

Defund them. Tear the system down and rebuild it in a more equitable and transparent way.

 

Don’t @ me. 

Just allow me to stock up on ammo so I can defend myself in the interim while the police force is being "rebuilt".

Yes, reform is badly needed, but just burn it to the gournd and start over is not a option here...unless you want see vigilantism on a wide scale.

[JB33]

3 hours ago, aabattery said:

 

Pretty weird to quote the guy running concentration camps in the movie as the voice of reason.

Sharp.

[JB33]

39 minutes ago, dudalb said:

Just allow me to stock up on ammo so I can defend myself in the interim while the police force is being "rebuilt".

Yes, reform is badly needed, but just burn it to the gournd and start over is not a option here...unless you want see vigilantism on a wide scale.

They all deserve a non-policed state if that's what they want. I'm alarmed at how powerful cancel culture is becoming. Like, if that's what the people want after the George Floyd tragedy, I could actually see it happening.

[Porthos]

 

 

'frisco, man.  

[Porthos]

I've been making most of my comments about the protests in the US Politics thread, but I will say one thing that should be fairly obvious but apparently it isn't.

 

There isn't going to be meaningful police reform in this country until the police themselves buy into the idea that there needs to be reform. 

 

Simple changes in training won't make a huge amount of difference if police just ignore it.  Hell, 57 police officers just quit a task force because two of their fellow officers were suspended for shoving a 75 year old man on a pavement who as a result of the shove cracked his head and had to be hospitalized (causing nationwide outrage).

 

And if police as a whole don't buy in to the idea that they need to be reformed?  Well, there's gonna be problems ahead.  A lot of them.

 

See, that's kinda the point here.  We've known for a long time what needs to be done. Even as far back as 1929 there have been looks at violence and the police (though admittedly, the Wickersham Commission, it was a side point and not a focus of the commission itself).   Even right now it's apparent that the more diverse the force is (in ideology as well as demographic), the less violent it is (one link, many others out there).

 

If folks want me to be blunt, it's not so much the training the cops get as who joins up to be cops.  And once they get into the system, what we on the outside would consider anti-social, anti-public behaviors are incentivized.  We all know about the Blue Wall of Silence.  But things like officers getting fired for not shooting a suspect get less attention.  

 

Or at least they did.

 

There is an entier culture in many departments that basically force the "good cops" to swallow their objections and go with the herd.  And as long as that culture exists any police reform has an uphill battle. 

[Porthos]

Still gonna keep most of my comments to the US Political thread, but I wanted to add another bit.  There seems to me to be three basic problems with police culture that need to be addressed for any sort of reform to take root.

 

1) The Blue Wall of Silence has to go.  "Snitches get stitches" may not be the police credo, but it might as well be when it comes to unrelenting peer pressure. And this isn't even a facet of police unions (though it certainly exasperates it). 

 

2) As a group they have to stop an Us Versus Them mentality.  This feeds somewhat into the first point but it also branches out into other areas as how they especially look at minorities, and poorer citizens as the Them that need to be tamed. The Other. It's adjacent to dehumanization but really when it comes down to its seeing groups of folks as people who need to be subjugated.  After all, it's okay to rough someone up who "deserves it", right?  Hell, practically justified.  That's the sort of thinking that an Us vs Them mentality leads to though.

 

Ultimately though, I think it really comes down to 

 

3) The central tenet that the most important thing that has to happen is that "the cop comes home alive" must be changed.  In the link I supplied above about the cop who was fired for not shooting a gun there is this little bit of wisdom near the end:

 

Quote

Wexler said the accepted police credo — “the most important thing for cops is to go home at night” does not square with an officer’s true responsibility: to honor the sanctity of human life.

“Every human life,” Wexler said. “Everyone coming out alive is the goal.”

You see, when it comes right down to it, EVERYTHING is dancing around that central conflict.  As long as cops feel that in dangerous situations their safety is the most important thing, then none of this will ever be solved.

 

Not ever.

 

It does require a certain amount of self-sacrifice and a willingness to court risk. It requires a certain mindset.  But in the end, I think that really is the most important cultural change that needs to be done in the world of the police. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Porthos

[Cap]

14 hours ago, filmlover said:

 

 

Lmfao. Sure, Jan. 

 

 

 

[Porthos]

29 minutes ago, Porthos said:

And if police as a whole don't buy in to the idea that they need to be reformed?  Well, there's gonna be problems ahead.  A lot of them.

 

28 minutes ago, Porthos said:

EVERYTHING is dancing around that central conflict.  As long as cops feel that in dangerous situations their safety is the most important thing, then none of this will ever be solved.

 

Not ever.

And, yes, I am making something of a subtextual point here. 

 

To make the subtext more explicit, I would suggest that folks who find the more radical solutions that have been brought up in this thread disquieting or even abhorrent, that they better hope and pray that the police as a whole become a hell of a lot more open to systemic change than they appear to be. Or at least be hope that whoever is in charge of various police departments is willing to wholesale fire the people who refuse to get with the program (and obviously not get hired elsewhere).

 

Or, better yet, help apply pressure to convince folks to change before those more radical solutions get more popular. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Porthos

[Porthos]

 

I personally will not be sad to see Cops consigned to the dustbin of history.  News articles like this are just one reason why. 

 

It is a rotten, awful show.

 

Has a catchy theme tune, I'll admit.  But beyond that?  I personally won't shed one single tear if market forces finally force that show away for good.

[DeeCee]

But there’s a new Megaton on Netflix. 

[DeeCee]

I never knew New Zealander’s weren’t able to watch the Apollo 11 moon landing live. NZ didn’t have a satellite earth station until 2 years later.  
 

A RNZAF Canberra Bomber flew a 40 minute recording from Sydney to Wellington. Using a newly installed microwave relay system it was broadcast in NZ about four and half hours later. 
 

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/neil-armstrongs-moon-landing-heralded-revolution-in-television-viewing-new-zealanders

[TwoMisfits]

4 hours ago, Porthos said:

 

And, yes, I am making something of a subtextual point here. 

 

To make the subtext more explicit, I would suggest that folks who find the more radical solutions that have been brought up in this thread disquieting or even abhorrent, that they better hope and pray that the police as a whole become a hell of a lot more open to systemic change than they appear to be. Or at least be hope that whoever is in charge of various police departments is willing to wholesale fire the people who refuse to get with the program (and obviously not get hired elsewhere).

 

Or, better yet, help apply pressure to convince folks to change before those more radical solutions get more popular. 

Again, that would require legally disallowing a government union for public safety government workers.  Unions ensure that you can't just fire folks wholesale,,,and pretty much that you can't fire singular folks ever without enormous, enormous amounts of evidence, paperwork, time, etc...(I mean, the Minneapolis union is sure to fight for the 4 cops after this all dies down...just wait)...

 

I mean, unions in this field, and in the government overall, have not existed as long as people think.  And seeing what people think now, it's probably time for them to go.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-sector_trade_unions_in_the_United_States#:~:text=By the 1960s and 1970s,of unions of federal workers.

 

PS - The one area of "public safety/defense", the military, cannot unionize...and it shows...

Edited June 6, 2020 by TwoMisfits

[filmlover]

4 hours ago, Porthos said:

 

I personally will not be sad to see Cops consigned to the dustbin of history.  News articles like this are just one reason why. 

 

It is a rotten, awful show.

 

Has a catchy theme tune, I'll admit.  But beyond that?  I personally won't shed one single tear if market forces finally force that show away for good.

Good riddance.

[The Panda]

Reminder to start thinking of movies for your all time list

 

 

[Lordmandeep]

5 hours ago, Porthos said:

 

I personally will not be sad to see Cops consigned to the dustbin of history.  News articles like this are just one reason why. 

 

It is a rotten, awful show.

 

Has a catchy theme tune, I'll admit.  But beyond that?  I personally won't shed one single tear if market forces finally force that show away for good.

 

 

COPS  is still on tv? lol I thought they were just rerunning episodes from the 1990s ... I hope that show is gone as its really skews peoples image of what policing is really like.  

 

Live PD and The Rookie are good police shows though and I think do show policing issues in the modern era quite well. 

 

I think its good to have a break but I think people not assume the public mood exists to cancel all police shows...  No need to appease the Twitter Mob which polls show do not reflect what people feel in general.

 

I would argue it will likely make cop shows look more inward actually which is for the best. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Lordmandeep