Classic Conversation Thread

[Porthos]

MLBN aired in their entirety pressers from Brewers manger Craig Counsell and OF Christian Yelich.  If folks can catch them after the fact, I'd recommend it as they were really really good.

 

Raw, emotional, and very very reflective.  If I can find them, I'll pop them in here because they are well worth watching.

 

In part, they were asked: What Next?  Neither really has an answer except to say that changes have to be made.  And it was that lack of a ready for sound bite moment that I found the most, well, real.

 

EDIT:::

 

I believe this is most if not all of Counsell's:

 

 

And Yelich's:

 

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Porthos

[Porthos]

 

Good.  If only so there aren't mixed messages causing a distraction when there is a night where we REALLY don't need a distraction from the main issue.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Porthos

[Inceptionzq]

 

[Porthos]

There was an All Players Meeting in the NBA Bubble tonight:

 

 

This has just gotten started.

 

EDIT:::

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Porthos

[Plain Old Tele]

^^ Truly amazing. 

[Porthos]

Let the Damage Control begin!

 

 

Whatever happens,  LeBron James is cementing his positioning for his post-basketball legacy as well as earning the name King James. 

[filmlover]

9 minutes ago, Porthos said:

There was an All Players Meeting in the NBA Bubble tonight:

 

 

This has just gotten started.

 

EDIT:::

 

 

 

This is big. Might as well just scrap the season completely now.

[Porthos]

12 minutes ago, filmlover said:

This is big. Might as well just scrap the season completely now.

That comment from Woz says to me that the NBA is gonna move Heaven and Earth to try to salvage things, even if there is a delay.  Which again shows the power of King James.  Now, and going forward.

 

EDIT:::
 

This is what I'm talking about:

 

 

That we are getting a torrent of leaks after the reporting from The Athletic just tells me that this is all just getting started.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Porthos

[grim22]

17 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Let the Damage Control begin!

 

 

Whatever happens,  LeBron James is cementing his positioning for his post-basketball legacy as well as earning the name King James. 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/lebron-james-launching-multimillion-dollar-effort-recruit-poll/story?id=72598810

 

NBA superstar LeBron James is wading further into the fight over voter suppression, with his voting rights organization, More Than A Vote, launching a multimillion-dollar campaign to fortify the number of poll workers in vulnerable Black communities.

The group, which bands together James, other star athletes, state election officials and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, is partnering to draft young activists to work at polling locations for November's general election across the southern and battleground states of Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, and Texas.

"There are a lot of people who grew up in the inner city who are afraid to vote," James, the star of the Los Angeles Lakers, told reporters last week while wearing a "More Than a Vote" T-shirt inside the NBA's quarantined campus in Orlando, Florida. "We're giving everyone the tools, outlets."

[Porthos]

10 minutes ago, grim22 said:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/lebron-james-launching-multimillion-dollar-effort-recruit-poll/story?id=72598810

 

 

 

Yes, that was very much in my mind when I was referencing his incoming post-basketball career.

 

One thing is for sure. He is setting himself up to be VERY different from Michael Jordan's post player life.

[TwoMisfits]

47 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Let the Damage Control begin!

 

 

Whatever happens,  LeBron James is cementing his positioning for his post-basketball legacy as well as earning the name King James. 

Apparently, the player union reps are gonna have a helluva job.  In a short amount of time, they'll need to get buy in for whatever action from all the players, including those never in the bubble and those who just went home.  Canceling the playoffs is gonna screw the owners, and they did let the reps know that canceling the playoffs might cost the players 15-35% in salary next year (b/c apparently, this year's revenue plays a role).

 

I think it was later decided it was a "poll" for the LA teams b/c I don't think they can cost the other teams' players that revenue without any official consult without serious legal repercussions, be they team to team or player to player or player to union, etc...about the only thing that could happen, if that were "official" with no official player backing from the union would be to have those 2 teams forfeit their series and for the playoffs to continue...and no one, right now, wants that...

[FantasticBeasts]

9 hours ago, Porthos said:

Now official:

 

 

=====

 

 

 

It's not a strike though.

 

Look at the statement from the Brewers union rep today:

 

That's not really a strike.

 

Might be close to it, but I think it's different enough to draw a distinction.

Strike is withholding labour, which is exactly what these players are doing. What are they boycotting then NBA?

[Porthos]

19 minutes ago, FantasticBeasts said:

Strike is withholding labour, which is exactly what these players are doing. What are they boycotting then NBA?

Yes, that's exactly what they were boycotting: The scheduled NBA game as a way to flex their muscles to protest injustice in America (more on this below).

 

However, I will admit that the line between, say, a spontaneous boycott and a wildcat strike (which is how some labor lawyers have described the action) can be incredibly thin.

 

But to me, this was more on the boycott side of the ledger as, at the time, there wasn't much of a sign that this was a protest against the league and the power structure within it and seeking changes within the league and how the players are treated/compensated and more of a "throwing hands up in frustration and using this as an outlet to show displeasure".

 

Language can be slippery though, I'll admit.  But the term "boycott" has been used in sports before when players want to refuse to play an individual game back in 1963 but not shut the whole league down.  That's one example (and I saw a newspaper clipping from the time on Twitter that described it as a boycott).  It was also described as a boycott when a group of players walked out on the 1965 AFL All Star Game.

 

In both of those cases, the players were protesting racial inequality, and walking out of a game to prove the intensity of their feelings.

 

So when does a boycott cross over to a strike, wildcat or otherwise?  Is it when the entire team walks off?  But is it a really a strike when there is at least tacit support from the league?  Is it a strike when they're not trying to change the power structures within the league, but to either get the league to do something external or use their power to change the situation outside the league?

 

It's an incredibly fuzzy line, but as of when I made my post, I think calling it a boycott was still the right call.  I think even if the Lakers and Clippers players walk out on the playoffs it's still the right call to call it a boycott, as they really aren't striking against the league.  But if it becomes more of a Players vs the League situation it could spiral into a strike, wildcat or otherwise.

 

 

 

 

[Porthos]

One other, perhaps, pedantic point, @FantasticBeasts,

 

In the US, boycotts are FAR more popular with the general public than strikes, especially when it comes strikes and sports players. 

 

Yes, there are exceptions to this rule about strikes (teacher strikes are still very popular to this day), but by and large the moment something is framed as a strike in sports, popular opinion drops. Often quite a lot.

 

The old (and tired) "millionaires versus billionaires" talking point comes out.  Also a reflexive "both sides are to  blame" mentality starts to creep into the media, as seen most recently over the battle over COVID-19 and baseball.

 

But for whatever reason, boycotts are still seen as more "pure".  Perhaps it's because it's less tainted by decades of campaigning against the term or at the very least not tinged with anti-labor sentiment.  Doesn't mean it will be wildly popular (and often it isn't),.  But there does seem to be more room for support in general when something is framed as a boycott as opposed to a strike.

 

So I can certainly see why some basketball players would want to see this as a boycott and not a strike, even if they aren't thinking in such cold calculus.  Same goes for members of the media who might instinctively see "boycott: good/strike = strife".

 

As I said, probably a pedantic point.  But, as I said in my last post, such is language. Especially when culture starts to enter the equation.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Porthos

[lorddemaxus]

The new Resident Evil series sounds terrible. Netflix clearly trying to do Stranger Things here all over again and I hope they fail.

[EarlyDeadlinePredictions]

Good for the NBA players and the other leagues that are starting to follow. Doubt the NHL will though. 

 

 

[Porthos]

No NBA games tonight; looks to be a restart on Friday:

 

 

Other writers who cover the NBA are saying similar things.  This situation is still hella fluid though and IMO could all blow up at a moments notice.

 

Some other observations as I check in the landscape from overnight:

 

 

This is not going away anytime soon, even if every NBA playoff game goes off without a hitch going forward.

 

Or, perhaps, because every playoff game is going forward happens this most definitely is not going away any time soon.

[Porthos]

Couple of great articles about the last day plus in the NBA:

 

 

 

(I highlight the second not to reopen the debate about boycott v wildcat strike as I do think it's counterproductive but to highlight the main theme of "being tired" and how just having a break from it all to grieve and process emotions might just be the biggest driving factor here of them all)

[Napoleon]

What a legend, can't wait for the movie about her life

 

 

[EarlyDeadlinePredictions]

5 hours ago, EarlyDeadlinePredictions said:

Good for the NBA players and the other leagues that are starting to follow. Doubt the NHL will though. 

 

 

Looks like they are doing something after all!