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Classic Conversation Thread | Black Lives Matter

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3 minutes ago, aabattery said:

 

Personally, I don't think it's fair to brush a small but still significant minority of people as mere anomalies. They're real people with real experiences and real lives and should be recognised as such rather than pigeon holed into our current binary. I think the great thing about science is that it isn't a static thing; we can look at the evidence and existence of these fringe cases and expand our terminology and understanding to make room for them.

 

But I will say that it's hard to change the paradigm, and it can be hard to accept new things when they go against what we previously understood. It's true of almost every science I think; from my own field, (geology) there's a great example of it in the first proponent of the theory of plate tectonics, Alfred Wegener. Won't go into to much detail but when he first suggested it, the response was uniformly hostile. Guy was ridiculed for years, all the way up to his death in 1930. People were still denying it up into the 1960's. But the ball got rolling, and as people actually looked into it they found a lot of the ideas were supported by some pretty strong lines of evidence. These days we can even measure how fast the plates are moving, which is a far cry from the prior belief that they just stood still forever.

That's really interesting, and you present a valid point re: pigeon holing any minority. I don't think transgender people are anything less than people, beautiful and unique as I said. What I struggle with is actually going as far as calling yourself the opposite sex of what you were at birth. You nailed it when you gave your example about Alfred Wegener and plate tectonics. It's a fundamental change in my reality that's just not computing with me right now.

 

I feel like if we can tackle outright discrimination to the point where transgender people can feel safe and secure in society - which is absolutely a fundamental right of ALL human beings - then we can afford a little time for others to actually come to grips with the concept. Again, as long as they're not discriminating or harming anyone in any way. If you look on the other side of the coin, we're talking about something that IS a reality for transgender people, but it's not for everyone else. It's actually a very difficult thing to comprehend and for those people it's not fair to be vilified.

 

As I say in regards to the current police situation and racism: condemn the culprits, the guilty. Don't condemn everyone.

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13 minutes ago, Noctis said:

You can't say mistakes aren't made. That's a ridiculously childish claim and the very opposite of the truth. You have children born every single minute around the world with horrific disabilities, compromised immune systems, cancer, STDs, neurological limitations, etc...

 

I don't believe blurring the line between sex and gender will ever work, not even by the left. But you ARE aware that some people are born with both a penis and vagina, right? Some are born with reduced development of their reproductive organs.

 

In general...that god doesn't make mistakes is not a valid argument whatsoever.

Yeah I worded that poorly. I meant mistakes specifically referring to sex. Obviously people are born with disabilities and stuff like you said and that's my point: if someone is born with a penis and a vagina, that is a deformity to me. It's not suddenly proof that "Hey, sex isn't binary!!". It's the exception to the rule, not the rule.

 

As I said to @aabattery, who like filmlover, is being a heck of a good sport about all this, maybe one day the concept will be very real to people like me. But at this point, for me personally, it isn't. In the meantime, I wish no ill will on any transgender person whatsoever and only the best, most comfortable life possible. That's the best I can do.

Edited by JB33

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Rowling's words, which was what got the transgender thing happening...are actually very valid in a lot of ways. 

 

Gender roles do change. That is a fact of life in every corner of this planet. But to dismiss biological sex in how it informs VERY much about everyone's life does our development a disservice.

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50 minutes ago, JB33 said:

I find it repulsive that someone would actually change their anatomy to that of the opposite sex. That's screwing with nature, the same way climate alarmists say we're screwing with nature.

 

I actually agree with the general premise that nature doesn't make mistakes. I think that implies a more humanistic intent to the whole thing than is really there; nature just is. Obviously the religion element can throw a spanner into that idea but I do think if one does have those beliefs, the interpretation of God's intentions can be flexible enough to account for the realities we find down here on Earth without making you a bad Christian; but this is just my interpretation as a more or less irreligious kind of guy. If there is a divine being in charge of it all, I don't expect our feeble minds to grasp the complexities of their plans.

 

It's up to us to accept or deal with the consequences of messing around with ourselves and the world around us, but ultimately I think changing someones anatomy (be it through hormonal treatments or surgery) is a net good in the world on account of how much it helps the people who want it. I don't know if you know any transgender people yourself, but I can tell you from those I do know is that these treatments make them so much more comfortable in their own skins and in themselves.

 

Climate 'alarmists' (I think that phrases implies that people are exaggerating the threat, which I would pretty heavily disagree with) I think, for the most part, aren't saying what we are doing is 'against' nature; obviously messages get muddled but I can tell you as someone who is an actual earth scientist is that climate change is the natural consequence of pumping a shit load of carbon and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Whatever happens, the world will keep turning and the big old rock we call home will probably keep being a big old rock, but the reality of it is that we are going to make the big old rock very uncomfortable not only for us but for all the other things that call it home unless we pretty drastically change what we are doing right now.

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2 minutes ago, Noctis said:

Rowling's words, which was what got the transgender thing happening...are actually very valid in a lot of ways. 

 

Gender roles do change. That is a fact of life in every corner of this planet. But to dismiss biological sex in how it informs VERY much about everyone's life does our development a disservice.

I think people are getting so used to cancel culture nowadays that it's being abused. For people to turn on Rowling like they have is disgusting. 

 

I'll tell you what's doing our development a disservice: thinking and acting with our feelings and not our intellect. I'm blown away at how almost all reason as gone out the window in favor of....whatever you call this progressive culture that's taking over right now. Maybe it's natural selection at work. I dunno....

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6 hours ago, Porthos said:

That feeling when the Classic Conversation thread is more heated than the US Politics Thread downstairs.

Unfortunately this post prompted me to look at the last page. 

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"People who menstruate" is an insult to women, end of.

 

Whoever came up with that phrase is a garbage human who doesn't deserve the attention they are getting.

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The reality is that these twitter controversies rarely ever translate to how the issue is like in reality. 

 

I never encountered  a transgender person through work (part of the LGBTQ2 committee for our teams) or at social settings that wanted to be referred to as some obscure gender pronoun like zhe or tey or anything like that. Furthermore when i asked about that they said such feelings are a fringe in the trans community.

 

My policy is to be gender neutral and once the person gender is confirmed i then use the correct pronoun.

 

As a result, its best for ones own sanity to just stay clear of a lot of these 'controversies'. 

Edited by Lordmandeep

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7 hours ago, Porthos said:

 

Anyway, I was just coming here to post this:

 

 

4dX7buR.gif

 

as I felt it was more appropriate in the CC thread.

 

(where's the lie, though? :ph34r:)

 

 

 

 

Country with limited gun laws  = a lot more violence then other western nations

 

however some people think we dont need a police force even though police is required in far more peaceful societies to maintain order and safety. 

 

 

tenor.gif?itemid=8387963

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Quibi is in danger of becoming a dinosaur already. Also Katzenberg is now adding the civil unrest currently sweeping the nation along with COVID-19 as to why it tanked because they pulled back their marketing out of respect lol.

 

 

 

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I interrupt all of this to let everyone know that Rob Manfred has now moved ahead of Gary Bettman to top my personal Power Rankings of Worst Sports Commissioner In My Lifetime.

 

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Edited by Porthos
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To recap for those who weren't paying attention, The Lords of Baseball have basically refused to negotiate over the COVID-19 shortened season, which each proposal they put out basically saying "take X amount of money, we'll just shift the number of games there will be."

 

The MLBPA finally had enough and said, "Fine.  Tell us how many games we're playing, but we're filing a grievance on your asses".

 

And now the owners are flipping out over the grievance threat even though they "won" on the money angle.

 

It's like the owners are trying to see how much they push things before the public actually revolts against their stances.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

I interrupt all of this to let everyone know that Rob Manfred has now moved ahead of Gary Bettman to top my personal Power Rankings of Worst Sports Commissioner In My Lifetime.

 

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

 

The union could have tried to reach some compromise by offering either a slight reduction from Full Pro-Rated or Salary Deferrals, but my god is MLB screwing the pooch at every opportunity

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On 6/13/2020 at 12:35 PM, filmlover said:

I was actually watching the original Jurassic Park for the first time in a while the other day. It still holds up as a great movie even after all these years.

Mom and I went to see Indiana Jones/Raiders at the Drive-In this weekend. It was good. Crusade is definitely better. 
 

As for the last couple pages, I would just say: no one is forcing anyone to be here. Especially with the dip in industry news and the box office being closed. Maybe it is time for some people to take a break? 🍵

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16 minutes ago, 4815162342 said:

 

The union could have tried to reach some compromise by offering either a slight reduction from Full Pro-Rated or Salary Deferrals, but my god is MLB screwing the pooch at every opportunity

Maybe, but given the owners barely moved an inch, I doubt it.  

 

I always thought this would land on deferred pay and maybe slight reduction on pro-rate.  But the owners, IMO, basically flipped out.

 

I didn't understand their extreme hard line here until I saw this over the weekend:

 

 

It's part of a much larger thread of tweets that starts here, but that was the "aha" moment for me.  Basically a section of owners decided to try to get the players to save them from themselves (again) and were surprised when the players radicalized themselves.

 

Looking at it this way, the flipping out over the grievance threat makes sense, if  they think they're gonna lose it.  It was the players calling the owner's bluff and saying, "Fine.  You win.  We'll take whatever you give us, but we're taking this to legal remedies."

 

Could the MLBPA have negotiated more?  Maybe!  Maybe they could have played the deferred money card earlier.  Maybe they could have tested the water at 95% or 90% pro-ration.  On the other hand, that could have just been running into a brick wall if the above suppositions are right.

 

===

 

I do think one of the bigger problems here was lack of face-to-face negotiations.  How much of that was COVID-19 related though, I couldn't say.


Either way, I don't think the MLBPA handled this perfectly.  Or even "well" (for a given value of "well"), but I certainly  know who I'm blaming for the majority of this mess.  This was just the final proof for me.

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12 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Maybe, but given the owners barely moved an inch, I doubt it.  

 

I always thought this would land on deferred pay and maybe slight reduction on pro-rate.  But the owners, IMO, basically flipped out.

 

I didn't understand their extreme hard line here until I saw this over the weekend:

 

 

It's part of a much larger thread of tweets that starts here, but that was the "aha" moment for me.  Basically a section of owners decided to try to get the players to save them from themselves (again) and were surprised when the players radicalized themselves.

 

Looking at it this way, the flipping out over the grievance threat makes sense, if  they think they're gonna lose it.  It was the players calling the owner's bluff and saying, "Fine.  You win.  We'll take whatever you give us, but we're taking this to legal remedies."

 

Could the MLBPA have negotiated more?  Maybe!  Maybe they could have played the deferred money card earlier.  Maybe they could have tested the water at 95% or 90% pro-ration.  On the other hand, that could have just been running into a brick wall if the above suppositions are right.

 

===

 

I do think one of the bigger problems here was lack of face-to-face negotiations.  How much of that was COVID-19 related though, I couldn't say.


Either way, I don't think the MLBPA handled this perfectly.  Or even "well" (for a given value of "well"), but I certainly  know who I'm blaming for the majority of this mess.  This was just the final proof for me.

On the bright side, Kershaw can't blow it in October.

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2 minutes ago, grim22 said:

On the bright side, Kershaw can't blow it in October.

Almost instinctually "liked"/"haha'ed" that post, but just couldn't pull the trigger under the circumstances. :( 

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14 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Almost instinctually "liked"/"haha'ed" that post, but just couldn't pull the trigger under the circumstances. :( 

This one was funny

 

 

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1 hour ago, Porthos said:

Almost instinctually "liked"/"haha'ed" that post, but just couldn't pull the trigger under the circumstances. :( 

I did it for both of you:)...

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In good news, the PGA is playing, and they had a great tournament this past weekend.  I mean, it's not as good as a lot of sports, but I'll take it over Korean baseball and auto racing (now, if I could understand Korean, I might flip flop:)...

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