Classic Conversation Thread

[Porthos]

Alright, gonna actually pull some stuff from my (now ancient) International Relations days.

 

There was a pretty universal truism in the 20th Century: Wars of Choice tend not to go well for the aggressor.   Arthur Schlesinger wrote a great deal about this, for one.
 

The 21st Century might still be something of an open question due to various reasons, but the current scorecard still isn't great for the aggressors.  Consider the case of Iraq and the US where the war and its aftershocks destabilized the region and ultimately set back US interests for decades. Plus all the human misery. Only now, nearly twenty years after the fact, is the dust starting to settle, and not in ways that we (ie the US) particularly like.

 

In the short term, and I do stress short term, Putin is probably gonna get everything he wants here and more and will shrug off any and all sanctions.  But in the longer term?  Especially if/when Ukraine turns into an urban resistance with all that entails?

 

Well, Putin might very well find out that while he isn't going to get nukes raining down on his head as a "reward" for his adventurism, the costs that he does take on down the road might not be to his pleasing.

[Lion Roar]

33 minutes ago, elcaballero said:

Perhaps not that much has changed since the 20th century.

 

Human beings don't change. Whatever lessons learned from history is forgotten in a century. Or less. 

[grim22]

4 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Alright, gonna actually pull some stuff from my (now ancient) International Relations days.

 

There was a pretty universal truism in the 20th Century: Wars of Choice tend not to go well for the aggressor.   Arthur Schlesinger wrote a great deal about this, for one.
 

The 21st Century might still be something of an open question due to various reasons, but the current scorecard still isn't great for the aggressors.  Consider the case of Iraq and the US where the war and its aftershocks destabilized the region and ultimately set back US interests for decades. Plus all the human misery. Only now, nearly twenty years after the fact, is the dust starting to settle, and not in ways that we (ie the US) particularly like.

 

In the short term, and I do stress short term, Putin is probably gonna get everything he wants here and more and will shrug off any and all sanctions.  But in the longer term?  Especially if/when Ukraine turns into an urban resistance with all that entails?

 

Well, Putin might very well find out that while he isn't going to get nukes raining down on his head as a "reward" for his adventurism, the costs that he does take on down the road might not be to his pleasing.

 

 

[Tarintino]

5 hours ago, Lion Roar said:

 

Human beings don't change. Whatever lessons learned from history is forgotten in a century. Or less. 

Serious hyperbole here. There's been a dramatic improvement in life during the last 200 years 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Tarintino

[Madhuvan]

This is so depressing to witness. I am feeling really helpless right now

[Noctis]

Russia invading Ukraine is not surprising. Russia already defeated the United States in Syria by saving Assad's regime from collapse. The sanctions against Russia in 2014 when he annexed Crimea were a fucking joke and anyone who says otherwise is a fool or a liar.

 

This is the most dangerous day in European history since the end of World War 2. 

 

Putin has said multiple times that the collapse of the Soviet Union was "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the last century." For him, this is a desperate attempt to reclaim the Soviet Union to its former glory moreso than trying to punish NATO.

 

Let it sink in that a war has now ensued that could potentially lead to a massive conflict around the world because of a man's nostalgia of the Soviet Union.

 

If the West won't put troops, then the very least they can do is put immense sanctions against Russia and try to hurt their trade and economy as much as possible. Isolate them more and more. Do to Russia what was done to Iran and more.

 

To not retaliate properly against them would only give a greenlight to more dictatorships and authoritarian regimes to consolidate and enforce their rules.

 

This is a dark day for Europe...it's a dark day for democracy and liberal values. If Russia is not handled properly, the world will see a rapid shift to authoritarianism. 

 

Fuck Putin to no end. 

[Tarintino]

7 hours ago, grim22 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont get why people were sceptic when it wasn't just the Americans that saw this all coming. The European countries were saying this too. 

[Tarintino]

16 minutes ago, Madhuvan said:

This is so depressing to witness. I am feeling really helpless right now

Its despressing but im glad I shorted the market this week. Silver linning

[dudalb]

5 hours ago, Noctis said:

Russia invading Ukraine is not surprising. Russia already defeated the United States in Syria by saving Assad's regime from collapse. The sanctions against Russia in 2014 when he annexed Crimea were a fucking joke and anyone who says otherwise is a fool or a liar.

 

This is the most dangerous day in European history since the end of World War 2. 

 

Putin has said multiple times that the collapse of the Soviet Union was "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the last century." For him, this is a desperate attempt to reclaim the Soviet Union to its former glory moreso than trying to punish NATO.

 

Let it sink in that a war has now ensued that could potentially lead to a massive conflict around the world because of a man's nostalgia of the Soviet Union.

 

If the West won't put troops, then the very least they can do is put immense sanctions against Russia and try to hurt their trade and economy as much as possible. Isolate them more and more. Do to Russia what was done to Iran and more.

 

To not retaliate properly against them would only give a greenlight to more dictatorships and authoritarian regimes to consolidate and enforce their rules.

 

This is a dark day for Europe...it's a dark day for democracy and liberal values. If Russia is not handled properly, the world will see a rapid shift to authoritarianism. 

 

Fuck Putin to no end. 

I think the danger to democracy is  becoming as great as it was in the 1930's. The thugs are on the march, and, worse, they have managed to divide the democracies.

[dudalb]

11 hours ago, Eric Says Trans Rights said:

Things will never change. Life is a total waste as we repeat the same choices every century, only the Earth gets closer and closer to death, entirely by our own selfish doings.

 

Follow the nihilistic lifestyle. It's the only way you can feel sane these days.

And we see Teen Age Angst carried to anew height.

Funny thing about self proclaimed Nihilist: They say there is no right or wrong, but they really yell loud when they think they have been wronged.

[Torontofan]

Werent the Ukrainian govt like few days ago being like to the Usa and Nato "guys chill nothing gonna happen"

 

Seemed they sort of were like in denial.

 

Be honest, we are shocked Putin went through with it still

 

[Torontofan]

14 hours ago, grim22 said:

Wondering why NATO doesn't just admit Ukraine right now and actually see if Putin wants to go to war since he's clearly been the aggressor now.

 

That would start ww3 as we would have to get involved...

[Porthos]

Twitter down.

 

Hell of a coincidence if it's just a "normal" outage.

 

(cue the "and nothing of value was lost" comments as said)

 

EDIT::: And back up now.  

Edited February 24, 2022 by Porthos

[Torontofan]

China looking at Taiwan right now 

 

👀

[Menor the Destroyer]

13 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Twitter down.

 

Hell of a coincidence if it's just a "normal" outage.

 

(cue the "and nothing of value was lost" comments as said)

Down where? Working for me. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Menor Reborn

[Porthos]

17 minutes ago, Menor Reborn said:

Down where? Working for me. 

 

See my edit, it's back up now. Was down for a short while though.

[Daxtreme]

apparently russia took Chernobyl back. Is it active as a reactor nowadays? 

[Maggie]

Kyiv is going down tonight

 

 

LATEST: Kyiv may fall to Russian forces tonight as Ukraine’s air defenses have been effectively eliminated, according to a senior Western intelligence official.

Live updates: https://t.co/UeV0jYFEf5 pic.twitter.com/u3YIAvJCJ2

— Bloomberg (@business) February 24, 2022

Edited February 24, 2022 by Maggie

[excel1]

At this point, just get it over with with as little bloodshed as possible. Keep tripping Russian economy. 

 

MASSIVE win for American intelligence, btw, and now basically the entire world - including Russia - knows this is nonsensical and mostly blaming the right person.

[AJG]

The actress that played Naomi from the reboot before the last reboot of 90210 has released a statement