Moviepass and its Impact on the Box Office

[Jandrew]

4 hours ago, Jay Hollywood said:

I have a movie pass I love it. but I hate it for the industry and would vote against it.

 

Honesty people who complain about movies being expensive are my least favorite people in the world. Name anything else that give you 2 hours of entertainment for 13 bucks when you're out and about. 

 

A mixed drink at a club in LA cost 15 bucks!!! its only gonna go up, yet 10 years from now people are going to fully expect 6 billion dollars worth of content at there hands at all times any time for 10 bucks a month. 

 

Im sorry but movies take years to make and 1,000s of people to make its a fucking joke to me that people assume this should cost $2 bucks. 

 

if we keep up, not only are we going to keep striking budgets for non blockbuster movies, but we will start getting less blockbuster movies and lower budgets alllllll around there too. 

 

No movie in 20 years is going to even attempt to "Push" tech like Jurassic Park or Star Wars or Avatar because why? People will expect it for free or in a bundle. The return if box office wont be high enough to ever put that effort into things again. 

 

We are killing the industry as fast as possible.

 

A beer is 6-8 bucks

 

a cheeseburger is 12 bucks at a restuarant

 

mini golf is like 45 minutes and cost 10 bucks

 

concerts cost 100 bucks for 3 hours + 2- bucks parking

 

Disneyland cost 120 bucks for 12 hours + 20 bucks parking

 

For fucks sake a SODA at a restaurant is 3 DOLLARSSSSS. You can buy a 12 pack for 4-5 bucks at Ralphs! Yet that same person complains on spending 10 bucks for movie. Get outta here. not allowed. 

 

 

 

But isn't Moviepass technically buying every ticket? So if you go see 16 movies in a month, money is still going towards each of those movies' grosses correct? It shouldn't matter if you're not individually paying because someone else is. I complain about movies being expensive all the time, does that mean you don't love me no more, Jay? Don't break my heart.

 

I agree it's crazy to say "I'm not paying $11 for The Post", yet go spend $11 on two Bud Lights, but it's a different dynamic. And when it comes to things like cheeseburgers...it's food. You need to eat food, you don't need to see The Commuter. $12 at Red Robin is not the same as $12 at AMC.

 

You can talk during minigolf. Most people do large arena concerts rarely, if at all. Disneyland is pricey, but people don’t do that often either. I’ve been once in my life, and to Universal twice. You also go to concerts and Disneyland to build memories and have a lasting time with family and friends. No one pulls out the family photo album and goes "and this is when we went to go see 'Ice Age." People take trips, vacations, retreats, etc to those entertainment options for a reason.

 

Why would a company round up employees and take them to the movies? If you're heading to Panama for spring break, why would you go to the movies? You're only young once, you gonna go enjoy a music festival, or are you going to the movies? Why did all the McCallisters decide go to Paris and not just go to the movies?

 

Sure I spent money on overpriced alcohol in NYC - and bought soda, but unlike the movies, I can't go to New York anytime I want to, so I'ma pay up and build memories while I'm there. No one says "I'm in Manhattan, but I'm gonna stay in because it's hypocritical if I go out and spend $15 since I'm not gonna spend $15 at the movies."

 

The $10 Moviepass just started yet theater attendance has been going down for years, so you can't really blame them for killing the industry. The studios are the ones who've decided to released movies on Itunes like a month later. The studios are the ones telling theaters "hey, so I'm taking 70% of the cut. K? Cool." The studios are the ones greenlighting $200 million on Doritos: The Movie. The studios are the ones who make the creative and financial decisions. The studios are the ones releasing similar movies too close together. The studios got greedy with 3D and made people sick of it. The studios helped pave the way for Liemax. Not every event movie has to have a giant CGI wave in it. Not everything has to be an "epic." 

 

You can't put all the fault on consumers. I know movies are your craft like writing is mine, and you'll be putting out hits one day, but I feel consumers have been doing their fair share. I could pull up Jumanji on Kodi or just Google it right now and watch it in high quality if I wanted to. Everyone knows you can. But I decide to do the right thing and pay over $19 for it at the theater. Can't blame people for not wanting to spend that kind of money every two-three weeks.

 

You let the studios off too easy. To me, that's like when people criticize passengers who caused a scene and wouldn't leave the flight, yet it was the airlines fault for overbooking the airplane. The studios have mostly made this bed, not the consumers. We take what we're given.

 

I don't think services like Moviepass would cause blockbusters to cease either, but I do think it'd give other movies more exposure that people would typically just wait for Redbox, Itunes, HBO, and Netflix for. With Moviepass, now you can go see all the Oscar hopefuls if you can find time, rather than say "eh, I guess I'll pick this one."

 

I think theaters and studios need to do one of two things, or both: just lower the damn prices, or utilize demand pricing. It's odd paying the same for Molly Game's and Infinity War. I can be 20 minutes late and I'll get a seat at Molly's Game, may get a whole row. IW will be overflowing with demand, and the line will be wrapped out to Target across the street. And prices should drop as the run goes on. Paying $12 for Last Jedi 6 weeks later with low demand, versus opening night when I'd have to stand in the line wrapped out the building, doesn't make the most sense to me anymore. Tickets can't be static anymore. Theaters have to make themselves more accessible now. Cheap Tuesday was a start, and Moviepass is helping build onto that.

 

I'm a moviebuff, but I personally can't afford to go as much as you guys do. I went to the movies 14 times last year and 14 times in 2016. I want to catch these new oscar movies, but can’t spend the money. Yeah it costs a few dollars more than a burger, but it adds up, especially if you live in a bigger city and are doing things like IMAX. Add on boy/girlfriends, spouses, kids, etc. And unlike movies, I need food to actually live. I typically wait for Redbox now. I can get rentals for free. If not free, they send me so many coupons I usually never pay more than $1.20. They actually had 15 cent rentals last month.

 

Moviepass, or demand pricing, would be a big help on the affordability front. If not, I’ll have to stick to my free/$1 Redboxes, which I'd presume is making the studios even less money than me owning a Moviepass would. And people will just continue to pirate, especially people our age. Would you rather everybody pay monthly or just pirate the movie on a firestick? Or sneak in. We saw All the Money a few days ago and the old guy in line told us he and his wife use to pay for one movie and go see 2. If he had Moviepass, him doing that would've been pointless.

 

You don't like Moviepass' model, but pretty much every other medium of entertainment has this option now. TV, music, books, theme parks, sports, video games, family fun parks, newspapers, even things to get you to that entertainment like Uber and the airlines. Until Moviepass, movies were the only big entertainment medium where you had to pay for each piece of content separately. 

 

It's not about people being greedy and wanting content for free. Content will always be free online. It's about wanting affordable quality content. 50% of Spotify users pay for Spotify premium. Apple Music has over 30 million subscribers. Both of those have been credited with helping save the music industry. Case in point my brother, who used to get his music for free, just got Apple Music, and he said now it's all he uses and he'll likely keep it. 

 

Netflix has over 100 million subscribers. Hulu has 32 million. Sling, Directv Now, Hulu TV, Youtube TV, they're all growing fast in subscribers. People will pay for content, but paying $13 each to see all the oscar hopefuls this month is not gonna cut it.

 

Spotify and Apple haven't killed music. Gamefly, Steam, and smartphone apps haven't killed video games. Itunes and Redbox haven't killed home video. Youtube, Sling, and PS Now haven't killed cable. Nook and Kindle haven't killed books. Youtube and Netflix haven't killed TV. If anything they've helped reinvent, and open up the market. They've changed attitudes. People who used to bootleg all their music now actually pay for it. People who use to go to Blockbuster every now and then now use Netflix every night. If Moviepass, or something like it, goes full mainstream, think of all the people that go to the movies once or twice a year, who may now be willing to make it a monthly thing. Movies will be fine.

 

Whether Moviepass ends up working or not, somethings gotta give if theaters are gonna keep bringing people in. 2017 had the worst attendance since 1992, that should be a red flag. Everyone wants to just blame Netflix and HDTV's, but it's much bigger than that and it's pretty obvious.

 

On 1/12/2018 at 11:28 AM, Lestranger said:

Now at $10/month it just changed the whole ballgame. They raised a 100 million to stay afloat for the next few months, but it will not last long. Maybe through March but not much longer. 

No ad revenue?

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Jandrew

[Eric Atreides]

@Jandrew

 

Bro, stop being so smart!

[Barnack]

14 minutes ago, Jandrew said:

Spotify and Apple haven't killed music.

It is piracy not them (that just the cheapest people accept) and not completely.... but it destroyed that industry revenues from is 90s peak:

 

By capita:

 

 

In adjusted dollar:

 

Quote

 

. People who used to bootleg all their music now actually pay for it.

 

 

 

With spotify and youtube free to stream legally on your computer....... there is just no need to bootleg.

 

In my market for eaxmple they were spending 200k unadjusted on an music album in the 80s with real musiciens and a lot of studio time to work on it, now it is like 80k for the big names and it is all made very quickly with lot of cheap digital tracks because you have like 60% of the revenues that went away with the Internet.

 

14 minutes ago, Jandrew said:

But isn't Moviepass technically buying every ticket? So if you go see 16 movies in a month, money is still going towards each of those movies' grosses correct?

The idea is that it is not sustainable at that price point and it is cheapening everything else (the longer it exist and keep creating that low of a price habit to people, the harder it will be for the industry to charge the current prices point, while the current margin are already extremely low versus 10 year's ago.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Barnack

[Gavin Feng]

Maybe I see…Someone who is a data analyst in US told me Moviepass can make money by selling big data to studios…If audience can go cinema everyday after paying low $9, they will have more freedom to choose when and where and which. Then Moviepass college those datas and will know more about audience. Selling to studios(I hearing it’s very valuable in US) and those money Moviepass paid for audience will be back. It’s something like Netflix. A theatrical version of Netflix. 

[Jandrew]

Yes, @Barnack. Spotify and Apple have helped save the music industry because they've curved piracy. There is no need to subject your Windows OS to Limewire or that malware infested MP3 bootleg site anymore. And they've done more than make people pay for music again, they've gotten people enthusiastic about music again. No one buys CD's anymore, nor download much anymore either, that's just how it is, yet people will pay for Apple Music so they don't have to wait 2 weeks to hear the new Adele album. We've been given such a massive library that you actually get excited about it now. 

 

Tidal, Pandora, and Youtube Red have played a big role as well. Yes you can listen to anything on Youtube for free, or still pirate, but you don't get the extra perks or exclusive content that these services give you, and you get inferior quality and drain your data. People are willing to pay for these now because of the library and the perks. You really don't need to pay for Spotify, the free version is already so good, yet 50% do anyway because it's a model that works.

 

Moviepass, or something like it, can, and probably will, work in the same way. Not only can it get people back in the cinema, but it'll get them enthused about it. It'll make Putlocker pointless, Kodi pointless. I don't think yall realize just how popular Kodi is and how openly people use it. And yall worried about Moviepass? Moviepass or whatever would help curb that. 

 

Even the cable industry is now embracing streaming services and this new, cheap monthly subscription model, rather than trying to fight it. You don't see Directv and Comcast trying to lobby and sue Sling, Hulu, and PS Vue out of existence, they just made their own services instead. Because the model is working.

 

I don't see why movies are or should be held in a different regard. The studios and the theaters are a business, and no matter what kind of business you are, you won't succeed without the right model. This current model is getting archaic. You cant use "well movies cost $100m to make" as an excuse. TV production, broadcasting, and marketing costs millions too, but people are tired of paying $150 a month for cable. The cable industry didn't say "hey that's how it is" like the movie industry has done, they've said "well, lemme give you something else. Check out this slim, 25 channel package, my dog."

 

And if people are afraid that Moviepass "cheapens", then price based on location. Or do tier pricing or something. Should rural Mississippi and coastal California Moviepass both be $10? I mean, Mississippi and California Netflix are both $10, but you tell me. I guess it depends on what content aka movies, you're getting in return, but idk. I really don't see the big deal. The music industry has figured it out, the TV and cable industry is figuring it out, the book industry was even able to avoid disaster. The way the movie industry succeeds going forward is not a hidden secret. It's right there in plain sight.

[Barnack]

1 minute ago, Jandrew said:

the free version is already so good, yet 50% do anyway because it's a model that works.

It is a model that work at 40% of the revenues of the previous one, we can say "work", the movie industry it could loose more than 50% of is revenus could shit is system yes, but with the very small margin they have, it would be a destruction of the output also.

 

2 minutes ago, Jandrew said:

The music industry has figured it out

With much smaller revenues and much cheaper products..

[Jandrew]

Dude, not everything has to be about statistics, goodness. Like I just said, people have gotten excited again. I saw a girl tweet "I already own an iphone, why do I have to pay for Apple Music?" She was promptly destroyed and one girl's response to her being stingy got 80,000 or something retweets. People had a fit when Apple raised song prices from 99 cents to $1.29, but now they're sticking up to Apple for charging $10 a month. It's not about "cheap products" or "revenues", it's about what consumers want and are willing to buy and spend.

 

If you don't think a subscription or demand based model would work, then I don't know what you think will. There is a ceiling and you can only keep raising the ticket prices so much. The current model is not going to: get people back in the theater, curb the growing Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon, or stop Kodi, which again, everyone crudely underestimates. Consumers have been making it quite clear. 

[RobinHood26]

Also The music thing IS NOT the same. Thats the WHOLE issue. 

 

More people worked on just creating the new soundtrack for The Last Jedi then people who worked in the new Kendrick Lamar album. That album took 1/300th (probably more)  of the effort it takes for a movie to be made. 

 

Songs are 3-4 minutes!!!! It only takes a few people to make a song and have it sound as professional as possible these days.  Songs are free but that doesn't matter, that drive you to want to see them in concert. Songs are basically advertisements for there shows/brand.  Movies don't work that way.

 

The whole industry will implode. We cant sustain paying below the line workers on movies a living wage if this happens, unless actors and shit stop getting paid millions. 

 

Editors on blockbusters movies only make like 100k - 200k thats not much at all for a MAJOR skill job that only X amount of people can even do. And Its a full year of work. 

 

Grips work on 2/3 movies a year and bring in 50 - 80k a year but then again they work 14 hour days all week.  

 

Assistants in hollywood make like 100 - 250 a day for again 14 hours of work on movies. Honestly you cant start paying these people less.

Its impossible.  Shit I only made 18k last year dog.  

 

Again its not a song/album, its a MOVIE. 1,000 of people work on one MOVIE not 3 dudes pushing buttons on Ableton or logic.. and most are regular workers making 30 - 40k a year. How can you employ 1,000s of people if you're only wiling to spend 2 bucks? Could a baseball stadium pay all its staff selling hot dogs if tickets were 2 dollars? 

 

 Just having an on set medic which is a law that cost money, police have to present for shooting on location, fire fighters if any stunt is involved. No extra people are needed to make a beat in a computer. Feeding 4 dudes in a room is a lot easier than feeding 150 on set day in and day out. Making a movie is NOT like any other art form.

 

Its like building a Hotel from scratch from the ground up. But harder because the amount of capable work force is WAY WAY smaller 

 

 

 

Also the food argument is a bull shit one. Thats a choice. You dont need to pay 15 bucks for food to survive. People are willing to pay 15 buck for a chicken breast when you can buy 10 frozen breasts for 8 bucks at the store. I didn't spent more than 12 bucks on a meal more than 4 times in 2017. 

 

Again its mindset thing and people are wrong. How people can justify buying something for 5x the price.  but then complain about a movie. Soda can cost like 25% yet a soda is 3 bucks. people complain about the movie then buy a 6 dollar slurrppe.  UMMMMM hello. if you wanna save money don't spend 6 bucks on something that cost  2 dollars at 7/11. 

 

I mean people gladly get ripped the fuck off every single DAY. Yet complain when 1,000 try and bring happiness to them for 2 hours. 

 

Shit they charge 15 bucks for one ride on a 4 million dollar rollercoasters at a pier but again movies are expensive. 

 

The Disney comparisons. It cost 42 bucks to go to Disneyland in 2003. its 120 bucks now. So the value of a Disneyland trip is is worth 3 times what it used to be but a movie is worth less!? 

 

Everything the customer wants is NOT always right. Just cause you wanna pay something doesn't mean you should. The Value of movies is going down and down every year.

 

Yet the value of everything else is more. Why does art have to take a hit? Movies have been more constant with inflation, its more or less with hourly wage on how much a movie cost. The same cant be said for 95% of goods and services. 

 

So yes, @Jandrew I don't think you have any reason to complain. You post on a damn movie site every day and yet you still complain. If you feel that way then the industry is already on its death bed. All your post does it make excuses on why people shouldn't care about cinema or movies or why is less important.  Right there is the issue, you just said its not worth your time or money as much as those other things.

 

Edit: But yes @Jandrew I still love you and you're welcome anytime over to my place if you're in LA haha im also arguing against something that brings me closer to what I love (movies) so lol

 

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Jay Hollywood

[RobinHood26]

Its simple do you think the years, time and effort to make movie should cost less than a Coffee?

 

If you do, why do even post on these forums!????? 

[MovieMan89]

32 minutes ago, Jay Hollywood said:

 

The whole industry will implode. We cant sustain paying below the line workers on movies a living wage if this happens, unless actors and shit stop getting paid millions. 

 

Oh no! Not $10 million per movie for Leo instead of 20 mil! 

 

Sounds like you just found the solution. 

[MovieMan89]

And for the record entertainment in general is way overpriced these days. Using Disneyland costing $120 to justify a movie costing $15 doesn't make the movie price "reasonable." It simply makes Disneyland way the fuck overpriced. So if someone is complaining exclusively about movies being too much, I'd agree that's a silly argument. But it's not a silly argument to say they're getting to be too much along with pretty much all other entertainment. That's why subscription stuff like Netflix and Spotify are so massive. 

[Barnack]

1 hour ago, Jandrew said:

Dude, not everything has to be about statistics, goodness.

In the end producing the amount of movies cost a certain amount, if revenues diminish more than marketing cost (and the best scenario that it is those that get away) we would loose content, like we did in music with the budget to make albums reduced by a giant amount.

 

I am not saying that it would not work, it would but possibly at a vastly different level of content produced than what we have now and for someone that love movies that is not a necessarily a positive and the music industry that lost more than half is revenues from is shift is not necessarily the best example to follow. Chance are if we turn movies into tv has a business model, we will have TV quality type of production. Will certainly work, but vastly different and not for the better.

 

Enthusiasm is fun and all, but I am not sure why we should care much (as an audience member) for anything else than what movies are produced and available to see in theater. And there is not many things that have more enthusiast than the big and exclusive theatrical release in our cultural world.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Barnack

[AniNate]

I don't think there's any reason to feel guilty for owning a MoviePass at the moment. The only one you're hurting by using it is MoviePass, but they're continuing to grow and now apparently want to start distributing their own movies. 

 

If they somehow find a way to stay in the black, then that's good for everyone.

[Goffe]

I agree with Jay 100% and I find incredible that, on a movie board no less, people devaluating the art form this much. 

Someone pointed out that we don't need movies but we do need food. We don't need the entertainment to SURVIVE, that's right, but we do need it to LIVE. 

 

Going to the movies should be expensive, but people don't see it that way because of piracy (EDIT: also Netflix). "If I can have it for free, why I would pay $15 dollars?" People close their eyes to the cost of running this business and to the many thousands of people employed by the industry.

 

MoviePass shouldn't exist.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Goffe

[Barnack]

26 minutes ago, tribefan695 said:

If they somehow find a way to stay in the black, then that's good for everyone.

I imagine that if they achieve to stay in the black at those price point it could make it harder to sell netflix/amazon at their wanted price point (netflix/amazon has yet to make real money), could be harder to charge $15 a month for streaming if people are paying $9 a month for unlimited movie in theater, same for blurays/vod/tv package/etc.. that could be all pressured down price wise. Could still be really good for the studios and theater chain obviously but it could make some looser (not that we necessarily need to care about them).

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Barnack

[AniNate]

4 minutes ago, Goffe said:

I agree with Jay 100% and I find incredible that, on a movie board no less, people devaluating the art form this much. 

Someone pointed out that we don't need movies but we do need food. We don't need the entertainment to SURVIVE, that's right, but we do need it to LIVE. 

 

Going to the movies should be expensive, but people don't see it that way because of piracy (EDIT: also Netflix). "If I can have it for free, why I would pay $15 dollars?" People close their eyes to the cost of running this business and to the many thousands of people employed by the industry.

 

MoviePass shouldn't exist.

 

People complain about the cost of everything. It's beyond the capacity of humans to care about whether every single business transaction they make is fair. If there's a legal way I can maintain my lifestyle without having to give as much up as I had to before, damn right I'm going to take it.

[Barnack]

13 minutes ago, tribefan695 said:

It's beyond the capacity of humans to care about whether every single business transaction they make is fair.

That is right for sure, specially when they are long and indirect chain. But we are talking about movie people on a movie board on a thread talking about the specific subject.

 

13 minutes ago, tribefan695 said:

If there's a legal way I can maintain my lifestyle without having to give as much up as I had to before, damn right I'm going to take it.

That is also obviously right (99.99% of people would I imagine) but that is a different subject :

 

) would we do it and like it at least at first ?

) is it good on the long term that we do ?

 

Can have 2 difference answer.

 

There is a long list that convenience won, without endup being a better subjective experience overall for example, but human nature make it easy to predict that the most convenient/cheaper option will tend to win, from telecom to air travel to listening to music (people go back to vinyl a lot, the ritual part of the experience being seen as important).

Edited January 20, 2018 by Barnack

[RobinHood26]

33 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

And for the record entertainment in general is way overpriced these days. Using Disneyland costing $120 to justify a movie costing $15 doesn't make the movie price "reasonable." It simply makes Disneyland way the fuck overpriced. So if someone is complaining exclusively about movies being too much, I'd agree that's a silly argument. But it's not a silly argument to say they're getting to be too much along with pretty much all other entertainment. That's why subscription stuff like Netflix and Spotify are so massive. 

 

Kids are growing up in a world and learning the VAULE of things, how much things cost. Growing up and being TAUGHT since birth Coffee cost 5 bucks a day yet. unlimited movies for your life cost 10 a month. Is just flat out AWFUL for society in general. 

 

The value of a having a TRILLION DOLLARS worth of content at your fingers is going to be seen as only being worth the price of a dozen donuts. Thats a fucking JOKE. but people are just gonna be raised with that INGRAINED in there head. You guys all look way to short term. Im thinking 20-30 years down the line. were killing the life spans of cinemas but decades. 

 

If 10 bucks a month becomes the norm. Then people assume thats what its wroth. Honestly I think you're a duck human being if yo think unlimited content is only valued at the price of 2 lattes. 

 

 

 

 

 

Also more to my point. 

 

The thing is Disneyland attendance is WAY WAY UP since 2004. The resort pulls in 28m in 17 now compared 17m in 04. 

 

But guess what, the average guest gets on 2.5 LESS rides. So people gladly pay 3x more for less entrainment . people are willing to pay soooooo much for no fucking reason because thats just how it is, people thing what are you gonna do. That just what it costs. There is no social barter. A drink cost 3 bucks, again thats everywhere there no social barter. I don't know one restaurant  that gives free soda. People know they are over paying, but they "can't" do anything about it so they accept it. 

 

The movie industry  needed to play that game. They are big pusses and constantly under cut and sell one another.  Should have straight up ignored it. Kept charging what they charged. Companies like Netflix don't care or think about whats good for the future of the art form, they care about making the most money in the short run. 

[Mojoguy]

Ehh, this just means more blockubsters and less small budget films outside of horror.

[AniNate]

9 minutes ago, Jay Hollywood said:

 

Kids are growing up in a world and learning the VAULE of things, how much things cost. Growing up and being TAUGHT since birth Coffee cost 5 bucks a day yet. unlimited movies for your life cost 10 a month. Is just flat out AWFUL for society in general. 

 

The value of a having a TRILLION DOLLARS worth of content at your fingers is going to be seen as only being worth the price of a dozen donuts. Thats a fucking JOKE. but people are just gonna be raised with that INGRAINED in there head. You guys all look way to short term. Im thinking 20-30 years down the line. were killing the life spans of cinemas but decades. 

 

If 10 bucks a month becomes the norm. Then people assume thats what its wroth. Honestly I think you're a duck human being if yo think unlimited content is only valued at the price of 2 lattes. 

 

 

If you're right then MoviePass should be raising the price or going belly up within the year. But there's definitely a market for a monthly unlimited theater subscription whatever you set the price at.

 

The movie business isn't something you can ever hope to accurately predict 20-30 years down the line. It adapts and evolves to changing trends, and if it actually does die then I'm sure there will be much more pertinent factors than a cheap third party subscription service.