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Eternals | Marvel Studios | Nov 5 2021 | Magnum-Opus by Oscar winner Chloe Zhao - Marvel's first rotten movie | Dips into the 40s on RT, B CinemaScore

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52 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

How about this? Chloe Zhao leaves Eternals to helm CM2,etc while Mousy Teachers leave CM to helm this? That way, CM gets an actual good director while Eternals will be directed by the committee anyway. 

I'd rather have Chloé Zhao have full creative control over a big budget film than take someone else's sloppy seconds. The Rider was incredible, and she's probably the best director the MCU's ever gotten as far as pre-MCU careers go. Either her, Taika or Coogler.

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This gay stuff is silly... why does it need to be added?

Romance is one thing Marvel has time and again failed at. So much so they dropped it for most of their recent characters and films and killed off the romance characters. The only places it works is where the romance is between central characters (Ant Man & Wasp , Star Lord & Gamora).

 

Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, The Hulk, all suffered from awful romance plots and characters.

 

Recent movies like Dr Strange, Spiderman, and Black Panther were much better off for not having romance included, and Iron Man, Thor, Cap are all better off for having their romantic interests be killed off / written out.

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2 hours ago, TMP said:

I'd rather have Chloé Zhao have full creative control over a big budget film than take someone else's sloppy seconds. The Rider was incredible, and she's probably the best director the MCU's ever gotten as far as pre-MCU careers go. Either her, Taika or Coogler.

She doesnt have much of a pre MCU career. She only made The Rider and another film which no one has heard of.

 

Ryan Coogler had Blackvale Station and Creed which were both well received films.

 

But nothing compares to Taika who made a few movies all of which have overwhelming positive reception.

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22 hours ago, Avatree said:

This gay stuff is silly... why does it need to be added?

 

Why does it have to be added? Because, just like heterosexual relationships, gay relationships and gay lives are a part of the real world. Fans of the MCU are gay, straight and everything in between. Just like many female MCU fans are happy to finally see themselves taking center stage in the MCU with CM, LGBTQs deserve to be represented too. There is no reason for anyone to be bothered by this (actually, there is a reason, but we all know what that could be....right?). 

And no, it not silly.

 

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25 minutes ago, LouisianaArkansasGeorgia said:

Why does it have to be added? Because, just like heterosexual relationships, gay relationships and gay lives are a part of the real world. Fans of the MCU are gay, straight and everything in between. Just like many female MCU fans are happy to finally see themselves taking center stage in the MCU with CM, LGBTQs deserve to be represented too. There is no reason for anyone to be bothered by this (actually, there is a reason, but we all know what that could be....right?). 

And no, it not silly.

 

those gosh darn homophobic Muslims!

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If they really cast a gay actor I would route for Luke Evans.

 

He could have been a leading man for many years but I have the feeling that being gay prevented him from that. He was in the Hobbit movies, part of the Fast & Furious franchise and starred in one of the biggest blockbusters of 2017 (BATB). How is it possible that he is not in the mix for leading roles? He is not even one of the "out and proud" guys who shows off his relationship on Instagram and quadrozillion times a day.

 

That's why I like him so much. He is not shy (anymore) of being openly gay but doesn't get bothersome with it. He is the perfect mix between Matt Bomer and Henry Cavill. The one is in your face, the other is too shy to committ anything.

 

But Maybe it's not Evans, not Quinto, not Bomer, not Eichner. Maybe they are in talks with an actor who will be coming out with the announcement... 

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On 3/12/2019 at 8:26 AM, EliasChristensen said:

If they really cast a gay actor I would route for Luke Evans.

 

He could have been a leading man for many years but I have the feeling that being gay prevented him from that. He was in the Hobbit movies, part of the Fast & Furious franchise and starred in one of the biggest blockbusters of 2017 (BATB). How is it possible that he is not in the mix for leading roles? He is not even one of the "out and proud" guys who shows off his relationship on Instagram and quadrozillion times a day.

 

That's why I like him so much. He is not shy (anymore) of being openly gay but doesn't get bothersome with it. He is the perfect mix between Matt Bomer and Henry Cavill. The one is in your face, the other is too shy to committ anything.

 

But Maybe it's not Evans, not Quinto, not Bomer, not Eichner. Maybe they are in talks with an actor who will be coming out with the announcement... 

 

Henry Cavill is gay?

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On 3/11/2019 at 7:18 PM, LouisianaArkansasGeorgia said:

Why does it have to be added?

 

On 3/11/2019 at 7:18 PM, LouisianaArkansasGeorgia said:

There is no reason for anyone to be bothered by this

 

On 3/10/2019 at 8:30 PM, Avatree said:

Recent movies like Dr Strange, Spiderman, and Black Panther were much better off for not having romance included, and Iron Man, Thor, Cap are all better off for having their romantic interests be killed off / written out.

 

On 3/11/2019 at 7:18 PM, LouisianaArkansasGeorgia said:

Fans of the MCU are gay, straight and everything in between. Just like many female MCU fans are happy to finally see themselves taking center stage in the MCU with CM, LGBTQs deserve to be represented too.

I see where this thread is going :kitschjob:

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On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 4:26 AM, EliasChristensen said:

He could have been a leading man for many years but I have the feeling that being gay prevented him from that. He was in the Hobbit movies, part of the Fast & Furious franchise and starred in one of the biggest blockbusters of 2017 (BATB). How is it possible that he is not in the mix for leading roles? He is not even one of the "out and proud" guys who shows off his relationship on Instagram and quadrozillion times a day.

Because no straight couples ever show off their relationships on Instagram.

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17 minutes ago, DAR said:

Is this going to be one of those things like LeFou in BATB where you hear about pre-release and then after the movie is seen you're like wait that's it?

Bingo.

I know that people will bring up CM and the dudebros' failed troll efforts as an example of how boycotts don't have any effect on blockbusters' box office if audiences at large are truly interested in seeing a film, but this is completely different. If Marvel indeed casts an out actor as a leading man in a leading role as an out homosexual superhero, this is going to go beyond a small-but-vocal internet contingent of snowflake manbabies. This is going to get tons of actual, mainstream press, its going to mobilize that Million Mothers group, this is going to elicit tons of theatres to refuse showing the film, tons of local TV stations to refuse airing the film eventually, this is going to have tons of churches and tons of citizen groups up in arms. And yes, sure, that is all additional buzz to the film itself...but I don't think we should ever underestimate the power of religious-based homophobia to galvanize groups of people. This isn't even comparable to CM. At the end of the day, being a woman is a "normal" thing, but being gay is still widely perceived as "not normal," "sinful" and "deviant", and especially in teh context of entertainment that is traditionally seen as "for kids" (comic books and superhero films), a gay leading man playing a gay superhero (in a leading role) is not gonna fly between the coasts.

Sad, but true.

Believe, nothing would make me happier that to be completely off and proven wrong. If The Eternals came out and featured an out and proud gay superhero leading man and still managed to make a billion dollars, I would be ecstatic. But I just don't see it happening. 

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1 hour ago, LouisianaArkansasGeorgia said:

Bingo.

I know that people will bring up CM and the dudebros' failed troll efforts as an example of how boycotts don't have any effect on blockbusters' box office if audiences at large are truly interested in seeing a film, but this is completely different. If Marvel indeed casts an out actor as a leading man in a leading role as an out homosexual superhero, this is going to go beyond a small-but-vocal internet contingent of snowflake manbabies. This is going to get tons of actual, mainstream press, its going to mobilize that Million Mothers group, this is going to elicit tons of theatres to refuse showing the film, tons of local TV stations to refuse airing the film eventually, this is going to have tons of churches and tons of citizen groups up in arms. And yes, sure, that is all additional buzz to the film itself...but I don't think we should ever underestimate the power of religious-based homophobia to galvanize groups of people. This isn't even comparable to CM. At the end of the day, being a woman is a "normal" thing, but being gay is still widely perceived as "not normal," "sinful" and "deviant", and especially in teh context of entertainment that is traditionally seen as "for kids" (comic books and superhero films), a gay leading man playing a gay superhero (in a leading role) is not gonna fly between the coasts.

Sad, but true.

Believe, nothing would make me happier that to be completely off and proven wrong. If The Eternals came out and featured an out and proud gay superhero leading man and still managed to make a billion dollars, I would be ecstatic. But I just don't see it happening. 

Even with this country being the bigoted disaster it is these days, we've come far enough that the idea of a gay superhero isn't anywhere nearly as taboo as it used to be (especially when same sex marriage has been legal everywhere in this country for years now). Hollywood has even started to given the greenlight to a handful of LGBT themed projects (the power and impact of Love, Simon) so there's a sense of "either get with the times or enjoy staying behind" with no turning back.

 

But really, at this point doubting the Marvel machine for anything is a foolish choice. They could cover all the minority bases and still make oodles of money.

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2 hours ago, LouisianaArkansasGeorgia said:

Bingo.

I know that people will bring up CM and the dudebros' failed troll efforts as an example of how boycotts don't have any effect on blockbusters' box office if audiences at large are truly interested in seeing a film, but this is completely different. If Marvel indeed casts an out actor as a leading man in a leading role as an out homosexual superhero, this is going to go beyond a small-but-vocal internet contingent of snowflake manbabies. This is going to get tons of actual, mainstream press, its going to mobilize that Million Mothers group, this is going to elicit tons of theatres to refuse showing the film, tons of local TV stations to refuse airing the film eventually, this is going to have tons of churches and tons of citizen groups up in arms. And yes, sure, that is all additional buzz to the film itself...but I don't think we should ever underestimate the power of religious-based homophobia to galvanize groups of people. This isn't even comparable to CM. At the end of the day, being a woman is a "normal" thing, but being gay is still widely perceived as "not normal," "sinful" and "deviant", and especially in teh context of entertainment that is traditionally seen as "for kids" (comic books and superhero films), a gay leading man playing a gay superhero (in a leading role) is not gonna fly between the coasts.

Sad, but true.

Believe, nothing would make me happier that to be completely off and proven wrong. If The Eternals came out and featured an out and proud gay superhero leading man and still managed to make a billion dollars, I would be ecstatic. But I just don't see it happening. 

While I agree that a CBM featuring an openly gay male lead isn't quite comparable to what we're seeing with CM, this still sounds like an overreaction to me. There will be more pushback on this, yes, but there will also be more support among the mainstream. Couple this with amount of goodwill Marvel/Disney has built up and I highly doubt most churches or citizen groups will bother being all that vocal about their outrage. They will simply stay away.

 

Also, it's exactly because of said goodwill that Marvel/Disney can afford to be a little bolder. I mean, we're talking about a company and studio that recently made box office history, just won 3 Oscars partly because they dared to do something they haven't done before. I'd think that would make them even more likely to take bigger risks.

 

It should also be noted that telling a story with an openly gay male lead doesn't have to be a choice between including a "blink and you miss it" moment and beating the audience over the head with a characters' sexuality. There's room for something in between, a more nuanced approach that's still compelling and meaningful. 

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50 minutes ago, Ororo Munroe said:

While I agree that a CBM featuring an openly gay male lead isn't quite comparable to what we're seeing with CM, this still sounds like an overreaction to me. 

 

It should also be noted that telling a story with an openly gay male lead doesn't have to be a choice between including a "blink and you miss it" moment and beating the audience over the head with a characters' sexuality. There's room for something in between, a more nuanced approach that's still compelling and meaningful. 

I honestly hope that you are right when you say that I overreacted. I genuinely that you end up being right.

 

Also, I don't want nuance.

I don't want half-assed attempts at being progressive while staying firmly entrenched in "we can't alienate families" panic BS.

I want to see simply the same shit we always see with heteros in CBMs: a kiss. And actual embrace between a gay couple while making goo goo eyes at each other. That is normal, simple, quietly powerful stuff in CBMs (THor, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, Superman The Movie, Batman, Captain America, et al), and I definitely don't consider it beating the audiences over the head with a character's [hetero]sexuality. If The Eternals do a simple kiss between two gay characters and people call that simple exchange "beating the audiences over the head with homosexuality," you certainly have  a huge hypocrisy/double standard. 

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3 hours ago, DAR said:

Is this going to be one of those things like LeFou in BATB where you hear about pre-release and then after the movie is seen you're like wait that's it?

 

3 hours ago, LouisianaArkansasGeorgia said:

The Eternals came out and featured an out and proud gay superhero leading man and still managed to make a billion dollars

 

"Hey Thanos how's your sex life" our lgbt MCU hero mocks Thanos as he checks out trying to casually hit on both the Captains

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36 minutes ago, LouisianaArkansasGeorgia said:

I honestly hope that you are right when you say that I overreacted. I genuinely that you end up being right.

 

Also, I don't want nuance.

I don't want half-assed attempts at being progressive while staying firmly entrenched in "we can't alienate families" panic BS.

I want to see simply the same shit we always see with heteros in CBMs: a kiss. And actual embrace between a gay couple while making goo goo eyes at each other. That is normal, simple, quietly powerful stuff in CBMs (THor, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, Superman The Movie, Batman, Captain America, et al), and I definitely don't consider it beating the audiences over the head with a character's [hetero]sexuality. If The Eternals do a simple kiss between two gay characters and people call that simple exchange "beating the audiences over the head with homosexuality," you certainly have  a huge hypocrisy/double standard. 

You've misunderstood my point. When I say nuanced approach, I'm not talking about a kiss, a hug or lack thereof. I'm simply talking about the quality of the story, the narrative and how the character's sexuality is incorporated into that. For instance, the way Coogler and JRC handled certain narrative points and themes in BP made the movie that much more compelling. Killmonger could have been a complete caricature, a mere offensive stereotype but he ended up being viewed as a sympathetic figure to many exactly because of the nuance and complexity in the writing. Same with a character like M'Baku.  

 

By all means, give the character a love interest, have them kiss but I'm talking about something more than that. How exactly is the character written and how does his sexuality, his experience fit into the larger themes of the movie. 

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