Eternals | Marvel Studios | Nov 5 2021 | Magnum-Opus by Oscar winner Chloe Zhao - Marvel's first rotten movie | Dips into the 40s on RT, B CinemaScore

[Eric Atreides]

I think what a lot of people don't recognize is the appeal of awards shows comes just as much, if not more, from the red carpet and interview junkets. Anecdotal, but my mom really only watches these events so she can say "Oh, I love that dress! Oh, I know that actor!" And judging from all the tweets and articles made about who was the best dressed that night, I don't think I'm alone there. And yeah, the Emmys were helped by stuff like The Crown and The Queen's Gambit being huge, populist hits, but last year's slate wasn't all that different (if anything, people had more time to binge the nominees), and it still suffered in the ratings because COVID meant there was no chance for any red carpet photos or a sexy auditorium to broadcast the show.

 

Obviously big movies help, but I think an exciting red carpet and a strong host a la Ellen (well...okay not Ellen now, but you know what I mean) can pick up the slack. Especially since we could very well see some good awards contenders that become populist hits.

[Valonqar]

4 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I know people are desperate to hate on Marvel for seemingly no reason bother than "they're popular, therefore bad" but people said the same about Black Panther and how did that turn out?

 

 

Filler Picture nom with no above the line nominations. Better something than nothing but AMPAS was clearly more taken with Joker which got 4 above the line noms (Director, Actor - win, Editing, Adapted) on top of below the line ones. They were also more taken with Fury Road that got 2 above the line nominations (Director and Editing) on top of techs. 

 

Point being, when it comes to blockbusters including CBM nominations at the Oscars, Black Panther is hardly a benchmark cause others did much better. Could Eternals do better? We'll know soon enough. For one, Director will be a nail-biter cause a number of directors won't be eligible for DGA due to their movies going on streaming so DGA and Director's Branch won't overlap as well as they used to (usually 4/5). So Zhao could get a DGA spot over someone who isn't eligible (Villeneuve, Campion, etc). 

[SpiderByte]

12 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

It's still too late for the Academy to start adding categories for this year's right now. If they wanted to make that change they would've added it earlier this year. And few people said the same thing about Black Panther at this point of time just like few people said the same thing about Joker at this point in time. Unlike either of those, this has no Oscar buzz at the moment. 

 

And get that "you're being sexist" shit out of here. It's just annoying. If Villeneuve or any other acclaimed new director was directing a Marvel or DC superhero movie, yeah we would be saying the same thing. 

That's because Joker and Black Panther had already both had their premieres by this point. When the reviews for Eternals hit in October (because the premiere is on the 18th, almost like they're confident in what they have in their hands), we can compare their receptions then.

 

And I've never seen a director win both Best Picture and Best Director and then have their next film be seen as an automatic write off before release. Ever. Not Innaritu with Revenant after Birdman, not Del Toro with Nightmare Alley coming out later this year after Shape of Water. Nobody's gone "oh well their last win doesn't count" with them. Why is Eternals the exception?

Edited September 20, 2021 by SpiderByte

[SpiderByte]

2 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

Filler Picture nom with no above the line nominations. Better something than nothing but AMPAS was clearly more taken with Joker

One of Jokers wins was one of the same categories Black Panther won the year before. Since when is Score below the line?

[Valonqar]

who said that Eternals is a write-off? It's a major studio movie intended to make money and start a franchise within a franchise. It's Feige who talks the Oscar talk which is why we speculate if it could get nominated. But if he didn't we wouldn't either. It isn't an organic thought but something that he initiated/planted in people's heads since it isn't a movie that most people associate with awards. Good for him that he believes in its potential and I'm all for it to shake up the race which is looking pretty dull atm (The Power of the Dog vs Belfast). So it's far from a write-off. There's something called afterglow nomination (a nomination right after the win) and, like I said, DGA is going to be a mess. But keep in mind that the year is stacked already and there's number of yet to be seen biggies that are more actors' movies which is always a bonus cause actors are the biggest branch. 

 

@SpiderByte Score isn't as valued as Director, Editing, Script, Acting. Everyone knows that. Not to mention that a movie cannot win Picture without at least Director or Editing or Script win at least in the last 10 years. Score doesn't carry such value. It doesn't even have a headline value. No headline is gonna say BP Won Best Score. They are going to say Joaquin Phoenix won Best Actor. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Valonqar

[lorddemaxus]

7 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

And I've never seen a director win both Best Picture and Best Director and then have their next film be seen as an automatic write off before release. Ever. Not Innaritu with Revenant after Birdman, not Del Toro with Nightmare Alley coming out later this year after Shape of Water. Nobody's gone "oh well their last win doesn't count" with them. Why is Eternals the exception?

Because both of them made awards specific prestige films afterwards and not a superhero blockbuster. If Del Toro went onto direct Hellboy 3 or something instead of Nightmare Alley, no one would be calling Hellboy 3 a Best Picture contender.

[SpiderByte]

14 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

Because both of them made awards specific prestige films afterwards and not a superhero blockbuster. If Del Toro went onto direct Hellboy 3 or something instead of Nightmare Alley, no one would be calling Hellboy 3 a Best Picture contender.

So Eternals is out of considerration for being a blockbuster but the 200 million dollar franchise reboot who's director has mostly talked about how much it'll need to make to get sequels and spinoffs made somehow isn't?

Edited September 20, 2021 by SpiderByte

[Menor the Destroyer]

Not sure there is much point in discussing awards potential before the film even premieres. Anyway the marketing campaign will start off in 10 days or so probably, I'll be interested to see how the TV spot performances compare with Shang-Chi. 

 

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&geo=US&q=%2Fg%2F11h3x4z16s,%2Fg%2F11h61ybt1y

Search trends vs Black Widow seem quite strong. Both the first and second trailers saw similar spikes, and the interest is in the same ballpark as BW at the same point before release. Of course, some of that could be due to unfamiliarity with the characters, but it still seems pretty promising, especially since unknown characters often have lower trailer spikes. I omitted Shang-Chi because it massively underindexed on trends (probably because of the movie's long title). 

[Valonqar]

8 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

So Eternals is out of considerration for being a blockbuster but the 200 million dollar franchise reboot who's director has mostly talked about how much it'll need to make to get sequels and spinoffs made somehow isn't?

 

based on a masterpiece book? I assume you are talking about Dune. 

 

Also, nobody said that Eternals was out of consideration. But they made a valid point that type of movies that GDT and Inarritu picked as their win follow-ups are/were more the AMPAS thing than a comic book movie without an obvious socio-political commentary or significance (which both BP and Joker had). 

[ThomasNicole]

Eternals have awards buzz talk probably because unlike pretty much all MCU movies this one have tons of "insiders info" about it's quality even before Nomadland won Oscar.

 

Multiples sources already said this is somehow different from the typical superhero flick and have higher ambitions, themes etc.

 

Feige himself is hyping this as a different beast for 3 years now, a type of promotion that he doesn't do for his other projects. Also, all the dates this movie gets are inside of the usual award calendar (which includes they rushing Shang Chi post production only for this go to November again).

 

At the same time this is obviously not concrete so i get and agreed with some people thinking it's impossible to really say if this is a serious contender like some fans want, it could easily ended being "just" a good movie. At the same time, there are signs that possibly this really isn't just another MCU picture, so it's odd too that some people get offended everytime someone bring the word "Oscar" for the discussion (and i said this overall, this discussion doesn't happen only here).

 

At this point, and i'm trying to be somewhere in the middle of this discussion, both seems possible. Like i said, if everything that people said about this confirm to be true, i can see this getting the 9-10 slot especially because the Academy would like to have some big hit on their show after so many complains and low ratings. If it ended up being a good movie but way closer to MCU overall than something above it, this will be a box office smash and that's it, which is fine too.

 

We'll have something better than personal opinions in a month or so.

 

 

[SpiderByte]

Well guess we'll see when the reviews hit and when the box office receipts come in whether or not it has cultural impact.

[Valonqar]

Hence my saying that it isn't obvious (from previews).  Didn't say it doesn't have but that it isn't obvious (yet).

Edited September 20, 2021 by Valonqar

[Legion Again]

Why did I have to read all this. Is this thread going to be unbearable for the next few months? The Oscars don’t even matter, most people didn’t care in 2010 and they’ve been on a steady decline ever since. If this had a December release where the late legs could be boosted then I guess that would be a different story, but it’s run will be over by then.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Legion of the Ten Crores

[RRA]

4 hours ago, Dominic Draper said:

God I hope not. An award suggested by Disney to award Disney movies.

To be fair the Oscars were originally created as a way for the studios to award themselves and give their talents an incentive to work harder/longer without a raise. 

3 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

Well we know they're talking about taking smaller categories off air, and they already approved the Best Popular Film category years ago. Not that out of the question.

 

I know people are desperate to hate on Marvel for seemingly no reason bother than "they're popular, therefore bad" but people said the same about Black Panther and how did that turn out?

 

Somehow I get the feeling if a male director like Martin Scorsese or Denis Villeneuve directed a Best Picture winner their next films wouldn't be considered immediate write-offs for awards contention.

Funny enough BP is why the “popular film” award died on the spot because it gave off Separate But Equal messaging for that one movie.

Edited September 20, 2021 by RRA

[imbruglia]

Oscar nominations are based on thousands industry votes, not ampas board meeting. lol

 

if you actually follow award circle, this has zero award buzz and doesn't look like award film at all.

and let's be real. only reason some people mentioning oscar is.. because of chloe zhao.

 

also if you follow film tiwtter.. you would know that she's not that much liked now.

she has lots of haters due to her sudden success and Marvel affiliation.

 

and Marvel hate from industry is stronger than ever. they don't see this as "cinema".

entertainment, not cinema.  just like denis's massive shade last week. that's how industry feel about this in general. they are the one voting for Oscar.

[marveldcfox]

Not sure if this will have the same "entertainment value" as Shang Chi. The action choreography in SC was insane until the climax which became CGI nonsense. Best since Winter Soldier. 

Somehow I have a feeling that the general public won't find Eternals as entertaining as other MCU flicks even if it is an Oscar caliber movie.

[Heroicpiglet]

4 hours ago, imbruglia said:

Oscar nominations are based on thousands industry votes, not ampas board meeting. lol

 

if you actually follow award circle, this has zero award buzz and doesn't look like award film at all.

and let's be real. only reason some people mentioning oscar is.. because of chloe zhao.

 

also if you follow film tiwtter.. you would know that she's not that much liked now.

she has lots of haters due to her sudden success and Marvel affiliation.

 

and Marvel hate from industry is stronger than ever. they don't see this as "cinema".

entertainment, not cinema.  just like denis's massive shade last week. that's how industry feel about this in general. they are the one voting for Oscar.

It's sad to read this. Award is a pipe dream but hate? Why is it. My small head think that with success of Marvel during the pandemic and giving people jobs it would get less hate.

[Saul Goodman]

Yeah all these comments against the franchise will affect its award chances. They may nominate to get some viewers, but Hollywood would rather have theaters struggle than award something that a lot of people watch in theaters. Just remove the Marvel Studios logo before Eternals and it might have had more  chances, it's sad but true.

[DInky]

It's funny how much hate MCU gets among industry professionals even though it's one of the main IPs keeping theatrical exhibition alive.

[lorddemaxus]

1 hour ago, Saul Goodman said:

Yeah all these comments against the franchise will affect its award chances. They may nominate to get some viewers, but Hollywood would rather have theaters struggle than award something that a lot of people watch in theaters. Just remove the Marvel Studios logo before Eternals and it might have had more  chances, it's sad but true.

Hollywood has awarded something a lot of people watch in the cinemas a bunch of times. You all just grumpy they don't have the same tastes as you guys.