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The Top 100 Animated Films of all time, according to BOT, 2018 Edition PM List to chasmmi, Deadline September 23rd

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57 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

By most counts Avatar is somewhere between 60 and 80 percent CG, which makes it mostly animation

18 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

Again your reading comprehension comes into question, it's probably somewhere between 1/5 or 1/4 live action depending on where you look. Again I would assume mostly to mean that something is majority CG (or over 50%) which Avatar is. 

57 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

between 60 and 80 percent CG

18 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

1/5 or 1/4 live action

1/4 = 25%

1/5 = 20%

1/3 = 33%

 

Sorry, whose reading comprehension is in question here?

 

18 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

A precise definition stops confusion like this, and we both know you don't have a definition of animation that isn't going to attempt to exclude Avatar for whatever your own personal vendetta against the movie is, while at the same time letting something like Toy Story 3 or A Scanner Darkly in. 

Oh, I don't have any kind of a vendetta against Avatar. I think it's a perfectly good movie and James Cameron is an excellent director. I just don't like the sorts of people who try to shove it and him down everyones throat all the time and derail every thread they can with it.

 

Point in case? This thread. Seriously, @chasmmi (or any other available mod) can you please clear out all this crud to its own thread so we can get back to discussing actual relevant stuff on this list?

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1 minute ago, rukaio101 said:

Point in case? This thread. Seriously, @chasmmi (or any other available mod) can you please clear out all this crud to its own thread so we can get back to discussing actual relevant stuff on this list?

The BFI's definition of animation and the Academy's are both inferior to your (as yet unstated) definitions, and you want to sweep the discussion away. This isn't your personal list, this is BOT's favorites. 

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Why are we acting like the definition of an animation isn't super vague, this needs to be discussed for making the lists. I think because Avatar being the example used it's driven people up the wall, my advice is to take a step back and think for a second. There is no clear line which separates a non-animated film to an animated film so the distinction has to be made.

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Avatar should be allowed if we can include other ones that are also not so cgi

 

my top 10 so far: 

 

1. Spirited Away

2. Coco

3. Avatar

4. The Lion King

5. Wall-E

6. Up

7. Toy Story

8. Snow White

9. Monsters Inc

10. Neighbor Totoro

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23 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

The BFI's definition of animation and the Academy's are both inferior to your (as yet unstated) definitions, and you want to sweep the discussion away. This isn't your personal list, this is BOT's favorites. 

Behold the BFI's Film Listing for Avatar.

http://www.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b8c544d22

 

Notice anything missing in the genre tags? Also, if apparently the Academy's definition of animated film supports your claims, then I can't help but notice that Avatar didn't happen to be nominated for Best Animated Feature that year in spite of actually being nominated for Best Picture. Almost as if- *gasp* -the Academy didn't consider it an animated feature!

 

The fact of the matter is, like almost all art, the precise definition of what is or is not an 'animated film' is difficult to completely define in absolute minute detail. And there are plenty of movies, like Team America, on the edge of that boundaries where I could see genuine arguments as why they should/shouldn't count. But I can tell you this much as to why Avatar doesn't count. It's designed as a live action movie, shot as a live-action movie, all the CG 'animation' (honestly, CG effects is the more accurate word here) is designed to appear live-action and compliment the live-action material. There is no point in the movie where the filmmakers want you to think 'Ah yes, that's clearly not happening in a live-action universe'. They want you to think the effects are real and live-action like the rest of the movie. Hence it's a live-action movie. Simple as. 

 

Now sure, some animated movies may have brief moments of live-action in them or use live-action bases or models for their animation, but in those cases it's clear that said use of live-action is designed to compliment the animation, rather than vice-versa, and that the primary state of the world in which the movie takes place is animation. Hence why said movies are considered animations.

Edited by rukaio101
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2 minutes ago, rukaio101 said:

It's designed as a live action movie, shot as a live-action movie, all the CG 'animation' (honestly, CG effects is the more accurate word here) is designed to appear live-action and compliment the live-action material.

hmm this is good point and i agree with lots of what you said

 

does this mean hat final fantasy movie with cloud in advent children? does not count? 

 

I think rukaio and scholar both have good points and probably just easiest to include what people include in the lists! 

 

FOr me avatar is animation of course but not for everyone and it is fave list not anything else! 

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8 minutes ago, rukaio101 said:

The fact of the matter is, like almost all art, the precise definition of what is or is not an 'animated film' is difficult to completely define in absolute minute detail.

I don't disagree. However, a working definition for the purposes of creating this list would be helpful instead of basing it on whatever the thread curator is feeling at one time or another was what I was asking for. 

 

I really don't feel my initial request was so unreasonable. As I've said in many such lists before, I'm happy for my own personal lists to be excluded, but I do wish to know why

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Just now, JamesCameronScholar said:

I don't disagree. However, a working definition for the purposes of creating this list would be helpful instead of basing it on whatever the thread curator is feeling at one time or another was what I was asking for. 

 

I really don't feel my initial request was so unreasonable. As I've said in many such lists before, I'm happy for my own personal lists to be excluded, but I do wish to know why

because I said so mate pack it in would you?

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7 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

A film considered for best animated feature in the same year as Avatar.

 

 

Don't think this meets rukaio or TOGs definitions... 

 

6 minutes ago, Box Office Theory Fan said:

hmm this is good point and i agree with lots of what you said

 

does this mean hat final fantasy movie with cloud in advent children? does not count? 

 

I think rukaio and scholar both have good points and probably just easiest to include what people include in the lists! 

 

FOr me avatar is animation of course but not for everyone and it is fave list not anything else! 

This is an interesting point, I think Square would have liked to have all of their major Final Fantasy movies be photorealistic CGI, does that stop them from being included as animated? 😕

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22 hours ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

This is an interesting point, I think Square would have liked to have all of their major Final Fantasy movies be photorealistic CGI, does that stop them from being included as animated? 😕

 

Well, it doesn't stop those film from being included as animated, because those films are entirley CGI animated, without any live action.

 

But I would disagree that such a circumstance makes Avatar eligible as an animated film. Sure film has many motion capture CGI set-pieces. But that's not what the film starts with. Pretty much the film's first twenty minutes is pretty standard live-action. It is my personal belief that those introductory scenes, the ones with Jake Sully and Grace and other characters talking to each other as humans, are used as the introduction because James Cameron is wanting to stamp the film as live-action.

 

Here's what I think. Anyone can make an entirely CGI animated film like Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within. That isn't hard. And it probably wouldn't have been hard to make Avatar in the same sort of way. With the animation moniker, sure, the visuals would have been groundbreaking. But with the live-action moniker, that's where the implications of the film's achievements reach new heights. By making sure the film is rooted in a live-action scenario, James Cameron truly pulls viewers into the world of Pandora with the CGI visuals. There is a reason why Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within and other strictly CGI animated films of such nature are largely unpopular, and that is because they rarely pull in the audience. But because of the choices that Cameron made, I feel like calling Avatar a strictly animated film would actually be an insult to Avatar. I believe that Avatar is meant to be viewed as live-action by the audience in order for the film's wow-factor to really seep through and to really present itself, and I believe that Avatar as a film is something that actually surpasses animation as a whole to be something that is more important to cinema than just being an animated film.

 

To me, Toy Story is an animated film. To me, Avatar is something much more.

 

I hope this makes any sense at all.

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My Vote:

  1. Peter Pan

  2. 101 Dalmatians

  3. Pinocchio

  4. Aladdin

  5. Robin Hood (Disney)

  6. The Nightmare Before Christmas

  7. Tangled

  8. The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh

  9. Dumbo

  10.  Fun and Fancy Free

  11.  Beauty and the Beast

  12.  Ducktales The Movie: Treasure of the Lost Lamp

  13.  Cinderella

  14.  Lady and the Tramp

  15.  Sleeping Beauty

  16.  Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs

  17.   The Princess and the Frog

  18.  Wreck-It Ralph

  19.   The Fox and the Hound

  20.  Bambi

  21.  The Lion King

  22.  The Little Mermaid

  23.  Frozen

  24.  Toy Story

  25.   Monsters Inc.

  26.  Toy Story 3

  27.  The Jungle Book

  28.   Finding Nemo

  29.   Fantasia

  30.  The Incredibles

  31.   Toy Story 2

  32.   Monsters University

  33.   Up

  34.   Zootopia

  35.   Wall-E

  36.   Ratatouille

  37.   Brave

  38.   Alice in Wonderland

  39.   The Sword in the Stone

  40.  The Great Mouse Detective

  41.  The Rescuers

  42.   Winnie the Pooh (2011)

  43.   Cars

  44.  The Incredibles 2

  45.  The Rescuers Down Under

  46.   Big Hero 6

  47.  Inside Out

  48.   Finding Dory

  49.   The Tigger Movie

  50.   Piglet’s Big Movie

  51.   Pooh’s Heffalump Movie

  52.   Frankenweenie

  53.   A Goofy Movie

  54.   Lilo and Stitch

  55.   Mulan

  56.   Pocahontas

  57.   The Hunchback of Notre Dame

  58.   Make Mine Music

  59.  Shrek Forever After

  60.  The Simpsons Movie

  61.  Jetsons: The Movie

  62.  The Land Before Time

  63.   South Park: Bigger, Longer, Uncut  

  64.   Tarzan

  65.   Oliver and Company

  66.   A Bug’s Life

  67.   The Aristocats

  68.   The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad

  69.  Coco

  70.   Planes

  71.   The Three Caballeros

  72.    Saludos Amigos

  73.   Cars 2

  74.   Fantasia 2000

  75.   Hercules

  76.   The Emperor’s New Groove

  77.   Planes: Fire and Rescue

  78.  Cars 3

  79.  The Good Dinosaur

  80.   Bolt

  81.   Chicken Little

  82.   Treasure Planet

  83.   Atlantis: The Lost Empire

  84.   Dinosaur

  85.   Meet the Robinsons

  86.   The Black Cauldron

  87.   Brother Bear

  88.   Home on the Range

  89.   Strange Magic

  90.   Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs

  91.   The Peanuts Movie

  92.   Bebe’s Kids

  93.   Beavis and Butthead Do America

  94.   Team America: World Police

  95.   An American Tale

  96.   Hotel Transylvania

  97.   The Polar Express

  98.   An American Tale: Fievel Goes West

  99.   Shrek

  100. Hotel Transylvania 2

Edited by Walt Disney
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29 minutes ago, Pandamia! said:

I think the definition for animated should simply be, “Is it listed as an animation on IMDb, BoxOfficeMojo or Letterbox’d”

 

Similar to the horror thread

 

Warcraft is listed as animated on Letterboxd 😬

 

edit: nvm, the label was removed

Edited by That One Guy
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4 hours ago, Pandamia! said:

I think the definition for animated should simply be, “Is it listed as an animation on IMDb, BoxOfficeMojo or Letterbox’d”

 

Similar to the horror thread

But IMDB lists all the Hybrids like Space Jam, Who Framed Roger Rabbit and the 2011 Smurfs as animated, and even includes mostly live action movies with short animated parts like A Monster Calls. The generally agree with the original post that tried to keep such films out.

Edited by Tower
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1 hour ago, Tower said:

But IMDB lists all the Hybrids like Space Jam, Who Framed Roger Rabbit and the 2011 Smurfs and as animated, and even includes mostly live action movies with short animated parts like A Monster Calls. The generally agree with the original post that tried to keep such films out.

Ah, I didn’t realize that, maybe not IMDb then.  I usually think BoxOfficeMojo hits genres pretty accurately

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