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The Curse of La Llorona | April 19 2019 | WB/New Line | James Wan producing

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8 minutes ago, Premium George said:

Let's move black panther to chicago, and the whole movie be around a white person. Well, director is black, supporting cast is black. So much good for black actors!

 

Interesting how people only want diversity in a movie when it stars white people but if a movie involves minorities in a big way diversity is seen as a bad thing.

 

If you want a purely Mexican Llorona....go see the 1960 movie. You know Mexicans are perfectly capable of making our own movies? We don't need Hollywood to do it for us.

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I too dont want to fight, but i can understand the "controvery" this time. A latina urban legend, its just logical to have a latina actress in the main role.

 

Other (more extreme) example: If someone with a dark skin color would play someone like Otto von Bismarck or Karl Marx, i would write that that is bullshit. Its as stupid as having a white dude who plays Martin Luther King. What i mean: There are certain specific roles (especially one with a historical background) that need to be played by a certain type of actor (i dont want to write "race", im not a fan of that word).

 

Now, this decision with this film isnt as big of an issue for me personally, but like i said, the much more wiser decision would have been to cast a latina actress or better, Ana de Armas. Ana de Armas definetly needs more roles.

 

Btw, Baumer is not racist lol.

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57 minutes ago, Brainbug said:

Now, this decision with this film isnt as big of an issue for me personally, but like i said, the much more wiser decision would have been to cast a latina actress or better, Ana de Armas. Ana de Armas definetly needs more roles.

 

Btw, Baumer is not racist lol.

I love Ana de Armas but she is Cuban however. La Llorona is Mexican at its core, Central American at the very least.

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6 hours ago, AndyLL said:

It's not a Latin role .  It doesn't take place in Mexico... it takes place in LA

 

La Llorona  herself is a Latin role and they  cast a Latino for it.  

 

 

I mean come on splitting hairs.  :Venom:

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On 10/23/2018 at 9:46 AM, AndyLL said:

Ok... people need to settle down.

 

Baumer is allowed to have an opinion... you all are allowed to disagree.  Unless we get into personal assaults, both opinions are fine to state.

 

I'm not even seeing the issue.

 

La Llorona is played by Marisol Ramirez, who certainly is Latin.

 

The ethnicity of who La Llorona haunts is totally dependent on the plot and setting.  If it doesn't matter to the plot and/or story, then it's up to the producers to cast the actors that best fit the part regardless of ethnicity.

 

On 10/23/2018 at 10:57 AM, Water Bottle said:

I'm sorry you guys got offended, but Baumer is actually a pretty great guy both on the forums and off the forums. 

 

I don't see anything wrong with his opinion. Frankly, I don't care that the lead actress is Italian. The movie has other roles that went to Hispanics including La Llorona herself. Not to mention, it has a Hispanic director. The movie has already created more opportunities for Hispanics than most movies do. But here, you are all mad that in a movie, set in a diverse city in Los Angeles, one of the roles went to an Italian actress.

He said we're full of shit. He is the one that needs to calm down. This isn't his first offense either. Some of y'all mods are slick as fuck and like to sweep things under the rug when one of y'all fuck up. Some of you all should not even be taking when you have expressed controversial opinions and whined about the flack you received as if anyone forced to say something ignorant.

 

And you're not seeing the issue because maybe it doesn't apply to you? Maybe it isn't for you to care about? Maybe it isn't for you to see? Ever thought of that? Sure, you all should be hoping for accurate and significant representation of people of ALL color AND background, but this is a big SHOULD as if you all are HOPEFULLY not ignorant or racist. Big IF.

 

I am screaming at you all thinking the TITULAR character is Latinx should be enough as if the legend did not come from Latinx folklore. You think they could get away with doing otherwise? The shit you all pull from your ass... Our issue is the fact the MAIN character is white, fuck Italian, she is WHITE. Like her being Italian is going to have an impact on how the story transpires, in a LATINX (or MEXICAN) story?

 

QimvACK.gif

 

The thing is the fucking setting SHOULD matter because where did this originate in the FIRST place? And Los Angeles? Has there ever been substantiated lore dedicated to this city with hosting activity or stories to La Llorona? Likely the ONLY believable and substantiated city in the states that has held any claims is San Antonio. Just because Los Angeles is home to many of my community, does not mean it can sub for the setting these stories take place.

 

At some point, this becomes from an interesting and respectful adaption to a dishonest and disrespectful one. Why Los Angeles and not San Antonio? Why Los Angeles and not one of the biggest cities in Mexico? Is Los Angeles more marketable than Mexico? Is Los Angeles prettier than Mexico? Is Los Angeles not as brown as Mexico? Etc. If so, then this is not only a disrespectful stance but a harmful one as well. When do these people and places being valid enough to earn the respect they deserve and need for the stories and people they birthed or inspired?

 

fkjn35B.gif

 

I am mad because yet again we are being exploited and used to fill the pockets of mostly white executives and such. I am mad because the authentic and honest stories of ourselves and in this case, this folklore, is not enough. I am being told we are not good enough to be talked about and written about, and for some of you all to come in here and say some of the shit you say is disrespectful. 

 

I could go on and on, but to some of you, this may seem exaggerated and pointless, and if you are reading this and this is you, you are part of the problem.

 

I am just tired of being told by white people what I can and cannot be mad about, what is and what is not diverse, and what is and what is not racist.

 

tenor.gif

Edited by Claire of Themyscira
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1 hour ago, Mulder said:

You guys don't see the issue with a mod insulting people who are upset over a casting decision and yelling about SJWs? I mean come on. I like Baumer a lot but...for real

 

What I saw was Baumer giving his opinion, people insulting him and calling him racist for having it, then him getting defensive and then he backed down. 

 

38 minutes ago, Claire of Themyscira said:

 

He said we're full of shit. He is the one that needs to calm down. This isn't his first offense either. Some of y'all mods are slick as fuck and like to sweep things under the rug when one of y'all fuck up. Some of you all should not even be taking when you have expressed controversial opinions and whined about the flack you received as if anyone forced to say something ignorant.

 

And you're not seeing the issue because maybe it doesn't apply to you? Maybe it isn't for you to care about? Maybe it isn't for you to see? Ever thought of that? Sure, you all should be hoping for accurate and significant representation of people of ALL color AND background, but this is a big SHOULD as if you all are HOPEFULLY not ignorant or racist. Big IF.

 

I am screaming at you all thinking the TITULAR character is Latinx should be enough as if the legend did not come from Latinx folklore. You think they could get away with doing otherwise? The shit you all pull from your ass... Our issue is the fact the MAIN character is white, fuck Italian, she is WHITE. Like her being Italian is going to have an impact on how the story transpires, in a LATINX (or MEXICAN) story?

 

QimvACK.gif

 

The thing is the fucking setting SHOULD matter because where did this originate in the FIRST place? And Los Angeles? Has there ever been substantiated lore dedicated to this city with hosting activity or stories to La Llorona? Likely the ONLY believable and substantiated city in the states that has held any claims is San Antonio. Just because Los Angeles is home to many of my community, does not mean it can sub for the setting these stories take place.

 

At some point, this becomes from an interesting and respectful adaption to a dishonest and disrespectful one. Why Los Angeles and not San Antonio? Why Los Angeles and not one of the biggest cities in Mexico? Is Los Angeles more marketable than Mexico? Is Los Angeles prettier than Mexico? Is Los Angeles not as brown as Mexico? Etc. If so, then this is not only a disrespectful stance but a harmful one as well. When do these people and places being valid enough to earn the respect they deserve and need for the stories and people they birthed or inspired?

 

fkjn35B.gif

 

 

I am mad because yet again we are being exploited and used to fill the pockets of mostly white executives and such. I am mad because the authentic and honest stories of ourselves and in this case, this folklore, is not enough. I am being told we are not good enough to be talked about and written about, and for some of you all to come in here and say some of the shit you say is disrespectful. 

 

I could go on and on, but to some of you, this may seem exaggerated and pointless, and if you are reading this and this is you, you are part of the problem.

 

I am just tired of being told by white people what I can and cannot be mad about, what is and what is not diverse, and what is and what is not racist.

 

tenor.gif

 

While I would love if the movie had taken place in San Antonio, not enough movies take place there, Los Angeles is simply a bigger city with a large minority population that is more recognizable in the medium. I can only imagine the reason it's taking place in the US and not Mexico is that this is an American movie, not a Mexican movie.  You are acting like this is the definitive version of La Llorona, rather than a Hollywood adaptation of it. Mexico has its own films, it's own television productions, it's own ability to tell the stories it wants to tell: you are missing out on a lot of really great movies Claire if you think only Hollywood's movies are the only way for Mexican voices to be heard. While Hollywood can certainly do more tell the stories of Mexican-Americans, it's not really Hollywood's job to go out of its way to tell stories in Mexico.  If it does, as it did with Coco, then great. It doesn't, well, that's okay.

 

One thing I do hope is that AMLO keeps supporting the Mexican film industry. Granted, my family doesn't like AMLO and I'm wary about him, but I'd much rather Mexico does its own movies rather than trying to depend on an American industry to tell Mexican stories. But hey, I hope I still make it in Hollywood. And maybe when I am a director, I'll shoot a movie in Mexico City or even Chihuahua (although Monterrey is prettier and better than Chihuahua, I never lived in Monterrey-I have more fond memories of Chihuahua since that's where my family is from).

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45 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

What I saw was Baumer giving his opinion, people insulting him and calling him racist for having it, then him getting defensive and then he backed down. 

 

 

While I would love if the movie had taken place in San Antonio, not enough movies take place there, Los Angeles is simply a bigger city with a large minority population that is more recognizable in the medium. I can only imagine the reason it's taking place in the US and not Mexico is that this is an American movie, not a Mexican movie.  You are acting like this is the definitive version of La Llorona, rather than a Hollywood adaptation of it. Mexico has its own films, it's own television productions, it's own ability to tell the stories it wants to tell: you are missing out on a lot of really great movies Claire if you think only Hollywood's movies are the only way for Mexican voices to be heard. While Hollywood can certainly do more tell the stories of Mexican-Americans, it's not really Hollywood's job to go out of its way to tell stories in Mexico.  If it does, as it did with Coco, then great. It doesn't, well, that's okay.

 

One thing I do hope is that AMLO keeps supporting the Mexican film industry. Granted, my family doesn't like AMLO and I'm wary about him, but I'd much rather Mexico does its own movies rather than trying to depend on an American industry to tell Mexican stories. But hey, I hope I still make it in Hollywood. And maybe when I am a director, I'll shoot a movie in Mexico City or even Chihuahua (although Monterrey is prettier and better than Chihuahua, I never lived in Monterrey-I have more fond memories of Chihuahua since that's where my family is from).

I'll tackle the Baumer thing in a different post but you fell into a really bad fallacy here. America's not just White so why would "Hollywood" not have to feature diverse experiences? The experiences of Mexican-Americans ((As I'm sure you know)) aren't the same as the experiences of Mexicans who live in Mexico.

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5 hours ago, Water Bottle said:

You are acting like this is the definitive version of La Llorona, rather than a Hollywood adaptation of it. Mexico has its own films, it's own television productions, it's own ability to tell the stories it wants to tell: you are missing out on a lot of really great movies Claire if you think only Hollywood's movies are the only way for Mexican voices to be heard. While Hollywood can certainly do more tell the stories of Mexican-Americans, it's not really Hollywood's job to go out of its way to tell stories in Mexico

Is not the definitive version but is the version that half of the world will know, and while it's true that is not Hollywood job to make stories of Mexico or Latin America, guess what, they are doing it anyway so the least you would expect is to cast Latinos for the role or you know, not being called a "hippie SJW who is full of shit" by a mod for wanting it 

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6 hours ago, Water Bottle said:

 

What I saw was Baumer giving his opinion, people insulting him and calling him racist for having it, then him getting defensive and then he backed down. 

What rubbed a lot of people the wrong way is that his posts had a strong tone of "fuck your problems, diversity is a non-issue" to them, as if he's unable to see things from anything but his white perspective (which has long been a problem in the actual industry, which until recently was largely run by white men). The diversity issue isn't gonna solve itself. If I want to see a film featuring Latin characters, I want to see actual Latin characters, not white people spray tanned within an inch of their lives.

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8 hours ago, Mulder said:

I'll tackle the Baumer thing in a different post but you fell into a really bad fallacy here. America's not just White so why would "Hollywood" not have to feature diverse experiences? The experiences of Mexican-Americans ((As I'm sure you know)) aren't the same as the experiences of Mexicans who live in Mexico.

Like I said, Hollywood should do more to tell the stories of Mexican-Americans.

4 hours ago, salvador-232 said:

Is not the definitive version but is the version that half of the world will know, and while it's true that is not Hollywood job to make stories of Mexico or Latin America, guess what, they are doing it anyway so the least you would expect is to cast Latinos for the role or you know, not being called a "hippie SJW who is full of shit" by a mod for wanting it 

Half the world? That would mean the movie is massively successful and hopefully would mean Hollywood is willing to tell similar stories from Latino cultures...and hopefully cast Latinos in the lead role. But if the movie flops...but anyways he didn't call people SJWs for wanting it. He called them SJWs for calling him racist because in his mind, the ethnicity of the character isn't a big deal.

 

3 hours ago, filmlover said:

What rubbed a lot of people the wrong way is that his posts had a strong tone of "fuck your problems, diversity is a non-issue" to them, as if he's unable to see things from anything but his white perspective (which has long been a problem in the actual industry, which until recently was largely run by white men). The diversity issue isn't gonna solve itself. If I want to see a film featuring Latin characters, I want to see actual Latin characters, not white people spray tanned within an inch of their lives.

 

Why would they use spray tan? There's lots of white Mexicans out there. Heck my mom, from a small town in Mexico nobody has heard of, is very white and has blonde hair.

 

I myself am not that brown-but I do have a small tint of brown. My dad is very brown after years of getting permanently tanned in the sun but lots of his sisters look white.

 

Oscar Isaac is Guatemalan. He looks very white. 

 

So umm...a Latino needs to look brown to count?

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2 hours ago, filmlover said:

What rubbed a lot of people the wrong way is that his posts had a strong tone of "fuck your problems, diversity is a non-issue" to them, as if he's unable to see things from anything but his white perspective (which has long been a problem in the actual industry, which until recently was largely run by white men).

I won't speak for Baumer but comments like the above are a big part of the problem.

 

Are  James Wan and Michael Chaves 'white men'?  You are doing exactly what you accuse Baumer of... looking only from your perspective and using that perspective to push an agenda.

 

2 hours ago, filmlover said:

The diversity issue isn't gonna solve itself. If I want to see a film featuring Latin characters, I want to see actual Latin characters, not white people spray tanned within an inch of their lives.

Again... assumptions, agendas, and broad offensive comments...

 

Unlike most here, when this controversy came up I went out and tried to find out what I could about the movies setting, characters and plot.  There is very little out there other then the high level summary and the teaser.

 

Really... the only confirmed 'Latin character'  is La Llorona.  A Latino was cast in that role.  Latino's/Hispanic's were cast in several other leading roles.

 

We know almost nothing about Linda Cardelini's character.  We don't know if she is Hispanic, part Hispanic, a member of an extended Hispanic family... or white.

 

We have no idea if the movie has anything to do with the Hispanic/Latino culture at all outside of the antagonist being from a Latino folktale.

 

I love how people here throw out names of who producers should cast as if this is a CAYOM movie.

 

We have no idea of what they were looking for in a character... who wanted to be the character... who they auditioned for the character... 

 

What we do know is that a few people on social media that don't know any more about the movie then I do decided to be offended before knowing if they should be offended and plenty of members here read on social media that they should be offended and jumped on the bandwagon.

 

Maybe we should wait to see if Cardelini's is playing an Hispanic character and if the ethnicity has anything to do with the plot before getting offended.  And at that time if offended take it to the appropriate thread.  (the diversity in Hollywood thread)

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Water Bottle said:

Like I said, Hollywood should do more to tell the stories of Mexican-Americans.

Half the world? That would mean the movie is massively successful and hopefully would mean Hollywood is willing to tell similar stories from Latino cultures...and hopefully cast Latinos in the lead role. But if the movie flops...but anyways he didn't call people SJWs for wanting it. He called them SJWs for calling him racist because in his mind, the ethnicity of the character isn't a big deal.

 

 

Why would they use spray tan? There's lots of white Mexicans out there. Heck my mom, from a small town in Mexico nobody has heard of, is very white and has blonde hair.

 

I myself am not that brown-but I do have a small tint of brown. My dad is very brown after years of getting permanently tanned in the sun but lots of his sisters look white.

 

Oscar Isaac is Guatemalan. He looks very white. 

 

So umm...a Latino needs to look brown to count?

You know what I mean. The industry has a history of whitewashing minority groups by casting white people in traditionally non-white roles and then using the “nobody would see the movie if it didn’t” excuse as to why (most of the movies that have done so recently have been flops anyway except for, what, Doctor Strange?). And the lead character’s last name in this is “Garcia” so it’s not like they couldn’t have casted someone of Spanish descent in the role when they could have

 

This movie hasn’t come out yet (and I don’t plan to see it because it looks lame regardless of the controversy - the “sound” of La Llorona got laughs at my showing of Halloween fwiw) so we can’t say for sure whether the controversy has been for nothing but I can see why the casting choice would annoy a number of people beyond “SJWs looking for something to complain about.” And with that, I bow out of this thread. Argue away.

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On 10/22/2018 at 12:01 AM, Dr Loomis baumer said:

You guys are all so full of shit.  I seriously doubt all of you concerned social justice warriors really care one bit about making sure latina actors and actresses get cast in roles like this.  But if it makes you feel better by standing up for mysterious cause, then hey, have at it.  

 

Acting is when you play a part.  It's make believe.  Not real.  That why it's called acting.  You act.  You don't need a Spanish or Latina actress in the main role.  You hire an actor to play the role.  They act.  Pretty radical concept, isn't it?

Yeah I still don't get how this is ok when only one person was even being insulting, everyone else was just responding with their own takes on it.

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2 hours ago, AndyLL said:

I won't speak for Baumer but comments like the above are a big part of the problem.

 

Are  James Wan and Michael Chaves 'white men'?  You are doing exactly what you accuse Baumer of... looking only from your perspective and using that perspective to push an agenda.

 

Again... assumptions, agendas, and broad offensive comments...

 

Unlike most here, when this controversy came up I went out and tried to find out what I could about the movies setting, characters and plot.  There is very little out there other then the high level summary and the teaser.

 

Really... the only confirmed 'Latin character'  is La Llorona.  A Latino was cast in that role.  Latino's/Hispanic's were cast in several other leading roles.

 

We know almost nothing about Linda Cardelini's character.  We don't know if she is Hispanic, part Hispanic, a member of an extended Hispanic family... or white.

 

We have no idea if the movie has anything to do with the Hispanic/Latino culture at all outside of the antagonist being from a Latino folktale.

 

I love how people here throw out names of who producers should cast as if this is a CAYOM movie.

 

We have no idea of what they were looking for in a character... who wanted to be the character... who they auditioned for the character... 

 

What we do know is that a few people on social media that don't know any more about the movie then I do decided to be offended before knowing if they should be offended and plenty of members here read on social media that they should be offended and jumped on the bandwagon.

 

Maybe we should wait to see if Cardelini's is playing an Hispanic character and if the ethnicity has anything to do with the plot before getting offended.  And at that time if offended take it to the appropriate thread.  (the diversity in Hollywood thread)

 

 

 

 

I'm seeing more people upset that people are upset then anything else.

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21 hours ago, Mulder said:

You guys don't see the issue with a mod insulting people who are upset over a casting decision and yelling about SJWs? I mean come on. I like Baumer a lot but...for real

And people coming here to his defense saying he was the one getting insulted because people were calling him racist. Guess what? If you say racist stuff (even if you didn't mean harm) you'll get called racist.

 

And the fact that the arguments are "This is a Hollywood movie, so they can take away our culture and milk it for profit because it's set in Los Angeles", as if being set in Los Angeles isn't one of the wrong things about it. If they don't want backlash about not casting Latin leads then don't fucking adapt Latin stories that people throughout the whole continent are familiar with. 

 

Try casting a white T'Challa, Mulan and Aladdin and set it in Los Angeles and see how that works out (and try to pull the artistic freedom angle)

 

Even amongst minorities, Latinos are the least respected ones, with massive stars like Sofia Vergara and Shakira being mocked on National TV for their accents or how they "don't know how to speak English" and they just have to play along (when someone like Shakira fluently speaks over 7 languages)

 

Yet people fail to realize why this keeps happening. I know people get offended by nothing these days and everything gets blown out of proportion (like this one, which started as a "they didn't even cast a Latin lead" until someone started calling everyone full of shit) but failing to realize one of the biggest struggles for Latinos in Entertainment is just really surprising.

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Look at Andy and Water Bottle snapping. I admit I did fall this time. I have to constantly remind myself how uneducated and immature all those twitter SJWs are and hlw you have to do solid research before admitting that they might be right this time.

Inequalities are a huge issue but If this is what the fight of social justice has become about then I am very frustrated and worried at the same time.

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