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Noctis

***SPOILER THREAD*** Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald ***SPOILER THREAD***

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Reviews are out tomorrow, an entire week before the film is officially released to audiences worldwide. I think it's a much safer thing to have people speak about spoilers in this thread instead of members maybe accidentally implying something. Plus, fans here should have a space to discuss the spoilers.

Edited by Noctis

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Seriously, guys: are Big D (Dumbledore) and Bad G (Grindelwald) former gay lovers?

 

I remember hearing/reading something like that and I'm afraid it just might be true...

Edited by shayhiri

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6 minutes ago, shayhiri said:

Seriously, guys: are Big D (Dumbeldore) and Bad G (Grindewald) former gay lovers?

 

I remember hearing/reading something like that and I'm afraid it just might be true...

JKR said way back when (in 2007) that Dumbledore was gay and fell in love with Grindelwald in their time as teens. She never said what Grindelwald's sexuality is. She implies that Grindelwald would be open to do whatever he needed to keep Dumbledore by his side. Plus there was that whole creepy vibe he had with Credence in first movie. We'll see how she writes it and makes this officially canon in the next 3 movies. 

JKR: [re: Grindelwald] I think he was a user and a narcissist and I think someone like that would use it, would use the infatuation. I don't think that he would reciprocate in that way, although he would be as dazzled by Dumbledore as Dumbledore was by him, because he would see in Dumbledore, 'My God, I never knew there was someone as brilliant as me, as talented as me, as powerful as me. Together, we are unstoppable!' So I think he would take anything from Dumbledore to have him on his side.
Quote:
I wanted to ask you about that, because Grindelwald resembles - the golden curls, the first person I thought of was Lucifer.
JKR: 
Mm-hm. So you can call it a fraternal bond, but I think it makes it more tragic for Dumbledore. I also think it makes Dumbledore a little less culpable. I see him as fundamentally a very intellectual, brilliant and precocious person whose emotional life was absolutely subjugated to the life of the mind - by his choice - and then his first foray into the world of emotion is catastrophic and I think that would forevermore stun that part of his life and leave it stultified and he would be, what he becomes. That's what I saw as Dumbledore's past. That's always what I saw was in his past. And he keeps a distance between himself and others through humour, a certain detachment and a frivolity of manner.

But he's also isolated by his brain. He's isolated by the fact he knows so much, guesses so much, guesses correctly. He has to play his cards close to his chest because he doesn't want Voldemort to know what he suspects. Terrible to be Dumbledore, really, by the end he must have thought it would be quite nice to check out and just hope that everything works out well. [Laughter.]
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The movie isn't shy about them. The Minister tells Dumbledore he and Grindelwald were like brothers and Dumbledore says "More than brothers." And when Young Grindelwald and Dumbledore are in the Mirror of Erised making the blood pact, they lock hands in a very sexually-charged way.

Edited by ViewerAnon
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OMG, so it's true, I didn't dream about it.

 

Well, after the initial shock - why not? It could be used for some interesting storytelling - which these movies desperately need.

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7 hours ago, ViewerAnon said:

I wonder how much talk about rape there will be after this comes out.

Yea, Leta's mom was essentially raped. Leta was a child born out of rape. 

 

As for Queenie...I mean, he did genuinely love her. But she put the magic on him when they traveled to Britain...or was it the whole time she was with him? If so, then she deserves to lose all her friends and sister by the end of the film.

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9 hours ago, Noctis said:

Yea, Leta's mom was essentially raped. Leta was a child born out of rape. 

 

As for Queenie...I mean, he did genuinely love her. But she put the magic on him when they traveled to Britain...or was it the whole time she was with him? If so, then she deserves to lose all her friends and sister by the end of the film.

 

I also wonder if Credence/Aurelius is the son of Ariana conceived from the attack whose trauma stripped her of her magical abilities.

 

Dark as hell, but this movie murders a toddler and a baby, so...

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This movie sounds super messed up. Rape, child death, more rape.

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32 minutes ago, Frozen said:

This movie sounds super messed up. Rape, child death, more rape.

 

... and Gays everywhere!

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13 hours ago, JGAR4LIFE said:

 

Credence is Dumbledore’s long lost brother 

omg no... this is AWFUL. It was never mentioned in the books... ugh I'm annoyed.

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I'm on the fence on the Aurelius Dumbledore reveal. One because it was implied that Dumbledore's father died in Azkaban in DH by Doge in his memoriam of Dumbledore. If Grindelwald is telling Credence the truth then that means he has to be Percival's son which means JKR had to do soft recon. I guess Percival's term in Azkaban wasn't life term and was able to father a son as an old man much later. 

Second, not sure if it was necessary. It would have been better if Credence was Lestrange. A positive is this would make the drama between Dumbledore and Grindelwald more intense and even more personal. I'm sure that is why JKR made this decision. I just hope she brings that drama in future movies otherwise it was pointless recon. 

Edited by SevLeta

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Does Grindelwald specifically say Credence is Dumbledore's brother? I just remember him saying he's family.

 

I still think he's Ariana's - it's not a coincidence that they're both Obscurials.

Edited by ViewerAnon

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1 hour ago, ViewerAnon said:

Does Grindelwald specifically say Credence is Dumbledore's brother? I just remember him saying he's family.

 

I still think he's Ariana's - it's not a coincidence that they're both Obscurials.

I haven't seen it. People who have said he was. 

Ariana died as a child. He couldn't be her son. If he is her brother than he is Albus' too.

Is possible he is Aberforth's son. That would make the most sense. Aberforth plays big role in the Grindelwald/Dumbledore past (he better be included in the future flashbacks) because it was his dislike for Grindelwald  and refusal for them to take Ariana anywhere for their greater good planning that instigated the fight that killed her and really woke Albus to Grindelwald's darkness. In the present adult time, if JKR wanted to include Abertforth in big way, than it would make sense if Credence was his lost son (for whatever reasons). 

 

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45 minutes ago, SevLeta said:

I haven't seen it. People who have said he was. 

Ariana died as a child. He couldn't be her son. If he is her brother than he is Albus' too.

Is possible he is Aberforth's son. That would make the most sense. Aberforth plays big role in the Grindelwald/Dumbledore past (he better be included in the future flashbacks) because it was his dislike for Grindelwald  and refusal for them to take Ariana anywhere for their greater good planning that instigated the fight that killed her and really woke Albus to Grindelwald's darkness. In the present adult time, if JKR wanted to include Abertforth in big way, than it would make sense if Credence was his lost son (for whatever reasons). 

 

 

Ariana was 14 when she died - that's old enough to have a child. 

 

In a series that's about Grindelwald and Dumbledore, and their conflict originating with Ariana, Credence being her child ties all of those things together in a way that her being Percival's, or Aberforth's, doesn't. It also more strongly links Fawkes to the major conflict, since he appears at the end of this film for Credence.

Edited by ViewerAnon

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16 minutes ago, ViewerAnon said:

 

Ariana was 14 when she died - that's old enough to have a child. 

 

In a series that's about Grindelwald and Dumbledore, and their conflict originating with Ariana, Credence being her child ties all of those things together in a way that her being Percival's, or Aberforth's, doesn't. It also more strongly links Fawkes to the major conflict, since he appears at the end of this film for Credence.

That is possible. I always thought that she got raped by those muggle boys. Is possible she got pregnant from that and Credence got given away. It depends on when that attack on her happened. Credence is younger than Leta and Newt and Newt was born 1897 and Ariana died at 1899. Math has to work although JKR admitted she was bad at it. 

Edited by SevLeta

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My memory's shaky, but I believe Ariana was attacked when she was a young girl and lived a few years after.

 

Assuming for the sake of argument that Ariana did at some point become pregnant and give birth to Credence/Aurelius in 1898/1899, that'd make him 27 or 28 in the FB films, right around Ezra's age.

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