PAPA NOL∀N'S TENƎꓕ | August 26 internationally. September 2 "in select US cities" | 75% on RT after 228 reviews

[doublejack]

55 minutes ago, Barnack said:

I know American got absolutely crazy over the years with lawsuit so anything is possible.

 

But for adult in the extremely well documented population about the risk (as much as the theater owner) I cannot imagine customer accepting willingly to take the risk to go a theater or restaurant to be able to sue them if they contact covid, specially from other patron and specially if they followed third party judge reasonable rules, try to sue a city if you get it in a subway or hospital, your hairdresser if you got it there or the grocery store. Business will not be automatically held in court responsible for a common disease being contracted in them obviously.

 

Worker could have an easier case, but customer it will be really hard

 

For a theater goose to be cooked.

1) Prove that it was contracted there (not necessarily hard, group of unconnected people getting it that night), plus:

2) Prove that the theater caused it (employee with symptoms or known carrier working) or failed to prevent it (if standard measure where not followed)

 

Otherwise they will not be liable (at least in all the country of the world except some place in the USA)

 

You're kind of making the case for these lawsuits. Number 1 is easy to prove as you mention. Number 2 proves itself. If a movie is showing, the assumption has to be that conditions are safe. Nobody is signing a disclaimer, right? If multiple people are getting sick then it is obviously not safe. A lawyer wouldn't have to prove why it wasn't safe, just showing multiple people got sick is sufficient evidence.

 

The third important criteria would be serious illness or death resulting from COVID in these specific cases. If a theater opens and a bunch of people get sick, but all have mild cases then there won't be a lawsuit. They will have to be sick enough to incur significant financial damage. Extended hospital stays with massive medical bills, cremation costs, emotional damages resulting from loss... those are the kinds of things that will bring a large judgement against a business.

 

I know this isn't a global issue, but in the US this is absolutely an obstacle to reopening. It is the reason the Senate majority leader has mentioned indemnification is one of his requirements to further stimulus packages. Absent indemnification, theaters will be gambling that they aren't the source of an outbreak (and we know superspreader events do happen) and that people who do get sick, assuming some will, have mild cases. 

 

I think small one-off locations or exhibitors that have a handful of locations (Emagine in Michigan for example) may be willing to take these risks. The larger chains like AMC probably won't. I suspect their legal teams will explain the risks to the executives and halt potential openings.

 

If you want to see this play out in different industries, check out how the automakers are handling reopening. Ford and GM keep setting dates their plants will reopen, and they keep sliding them forward. First it was early May. Then it was May 18th. Looks like the 18th isn't happening at this point, and no new tentative date has been floated. Expect this to apply to everything from theater reopenings to film production to sports resuming. Plans will be made and then scrapped.

[RealLyre]

1 hour ago, lorddemaxus said:

Move this to August 14th. WW 1984 could go somewhere else.

December would be great for WW84, it was originally going to go there in 2019 before the multiple delays. Dune could go to next year. 

 

Tenet could benefit from an October release as well if they don't want it to be the guinea pig

[Valonqar]

if they want tenet to be their awards poential on top of blockbuster than October for sure. 

[Barnack]

28 minutes ago, doublejack said:

Number 2 proves itself. If a movie is showing, the assumption has to be that conditions are safe

No reasonable third party would agree that a movie theater can make something like COVID impossible to be transmitted in a movie theater and that adults in this media environment could have believed so, that premise sound false.

 

If the theater open in 2 weeks in Texas, do you personally assume that it mean that is perfectly safe to go watch a movie ?

 

30 minutes ago, doublejack said:

A lawyer wouldn't have to prove why it wasn't safe, just showing multiple people got sick is sufficient evidence.

I am almost certain that this is false, reading about it (and logic) seem to explicitly say that you need to demonstrate some failure to avoid the situation on the business side, say they were supposed to have employee clean between show and they did not or something of the sort.

[doublejack]

30 minutes ago, Barnack said:

No reasonable third party would agree that a movie theater can make something like COVID impossible to be transmitted in a movie theater and that adults in this media environment could have believed so, that premise sound false.

 

If the theater open in 2 weeks in Texas, do you personally assume that it mean that is perfectly safe to go watch a movie ?

 

I am almost certain that this is false, reading about it (and logic) seem to explicitly say that you need to demonstrate some failure to avoid the situation on the business side, say they were supposed to have employee clean between show and they did not or something of the sort.

I get that you may be personally opposed to this type of lawsuit. That doesn't change the facts, though. You are simply mistaken.

 

https://www.law.com/2020/05/01/as-businesses-reopen-lawsuits-loom-over-covid-19-exposure/?slreturn=20200407140545

 

An outbreak at a theater, where multiple people get infected, would be all the evidence of negligence necessary. There is no smoking gun needed. Again, it's not a criminal case, so the burden of proof is completely different. You are 100% wrong if you don't see that a third party would find a business liable if a bunch of customers get sick there, and that is a low bar to clear.

 

-edit

 

A specific example, what if a business has an asymptomatic COVID positive employee? Difficult to detect at the time of a showing, but easy to pinpoint after the fact. You think theaters are going to test all their employees daily? It's not going to happen. There's massive risks in opening.

Edited May 7, 2020 by doublejack

[RealLyre]

10 minutes ago, doublejack said:

 

 

A specific example, what if a business has an asymptomatic COVID positive employee? Difficult to detect at the time of a showing, but easy to pinpoint after the fact. You think theaters are going to test all their employees daily? It's not going to happen. There's massive risks in opening.

are you implying that theaters will remain closed until there is a vaccine? I don't really see that happening, they'll just risk it and hope for the best.

[Barnack]

13 minutes ago, doublejack said:

I get that you may be personally opposed to this type of lawsuit. That doesn't change the facts, though. You are simply mistaken.

 

https://www.law.com/2020/05/01/as-businesses-reopen-lawsuits-loom-over-covid-19-exposure/?slreturn=20200407140545

 

This is behind a paywall, but the word: negligently is in the resume.

 

In the text (not sure why but it finally did show up), it does say:

 

Only a handful of U.S. lawsuits are pending over COVID-19 deaths and illnesses, despite the number of coronavirus cases exceeding 1 million. But the cases all make similar allegations: the companies knew about the coronavirus but did not do enough to prevent its spread.

 

“These are claims that as an employee, or as a customer at a business, whether grocery stores or movie theaters, you did not take appropriate actions to safeguard me from the coronavirus, and I’ve had injury that flowed from that,” Kim said. “Your basic negligence type of claim is a big area of concern.”

 

Lot of people getting it from an other customer in a movie theater that was following all the reasonable rules in place would not fit that pattern an actual example look like this:

 

John Rollins, of Rollins/Kavanaugh in Kansas City, Missouri, has filed five of the six lawsuits against Riverbend Post Acute Rehabilitation, a care center in Kansas City, Kansas, where nearly 100 residents tested positive for the coronavirus. The lawsuits allege that the facility allowed an employee who had cough and fever symptoms to come to work in late March. He later tested positive for the coronavirus, and, by April 3, nearly 20 employees and residents had tested positive.

 

Yes if a movie theater knowingly had employee with symptoms working that open the possibility for a lawsuit and theater chain could decide to not take that risk (they have little control on what goes on day to day in a location), the article does not say that a lot of customer getting it would be enough to loose in court.

[WittyUsername]

This is basically the one film left this year that I’m still looking forward to, so I’d like to be able to see it in July, but if things are still looking grim by then, I can’t say I would be mad if it gets delayed. Making sure that people stay in good health is obviously more important than watching a movie. 

[doublejack]

25 minutes ago, RealLyre said:

are you implying that theaters will remain closed until there is a vaccine? I don't really see that happening, they'll just risk it and hope for the best.

I don't think they'll have to remain closed until there is a vaccine. However, I believe the number of active cases will need to be a lot lower and / or testing will need to be higher. The virus is too widespread and there is too much community transmission in the current environment. It would be a risky choice to open theaters the way things are now.

 

16 minutes ago, Barnack said:

 

This is behind a paywall, but the word: negligently is in the resume.

 

In the text (not sure why but it finally did show up), it does say:

 

Only a handful of U.S. lawsuits are pending over COVID-19 deaths and illnesses, despite the number of coronavirus cases exceeding 1 million. But the cases all make similar allegations: the companies knew about the coronavirus but did not do enough to prevent its spread.

 

“These are claims that as an employee, or as a customer at a business, whether grocery stores or movie theaters, you did not take appropriate actions to safeguard me from the coronavirus, and I’ve had injury that flowed from that,” Kim said. “Your basic negligence type of claim is a big area of concern.”

 

Lot of people getting it from an other customer in a movie theater that was following all the reasonable rules in place would not fit that pattern an actual example look like this:

 

John Rollins, of Rollins/Kavanaugh in Kansas City, Missouri, has filed five of the six lawsuits against Riverbend Post Acute Rehabilitation, a care center in Kansas City, Kansas, where nearly 100 residents tested positive for the coronavirus. The lawsuits allege that the facility allowed an employee who had cough and fever symptoms to come to work in late March. He later tested positive for the coronavirus, and, by April 3, nearly 20 employees and residents had tested positive.

 

Yes if a movie theater knowingly had employee with symptoms working that open the possibility for a lawsuit and theater chain could decide to not take that risk (they have little control on what goes on day to day in a location), the article does not say that a lot of customer getting it would be enough to loose in court.

 

Relevant quote from the article I linked:

 

Quote

 

What are the claims?

At the forefront of liability concerns are lawsuits alleging the negligence of a business caused customers or employees to get the coronavirus.

“These are claims that as an employee, or as a customer at a business, whether grocery stores or movie theaters, you did not take appropriate actions to safeguard me from the coronavirus, and I’ve had injury that flowed from that,” Kim said. “Your basic negligence type of claim is a big area of concern.”

 

 

The success of these lawsuits is going to vary pretty widely, as is always the case. However, even seemingly weaker cases are settled out of court when business runs the risk of a massive judgement against them. COVID deaths linked to a business would be such a circumstance.

 

Also, negligence in the legal sense more or less means at fault. It does not have to be some glaring, flagrant issue. It can be something as simple as a sick employee working, or a sick customer that's allowed entry and not removed. If humans were robots then a theater chain could open without too much risk. However, since we aren't robots and we do make mistakes, just being open and allowing customers in is going to come with a high level of risk. Customers may notice something that employees or a supervisor doesn't.

 

There are already COVID related lawsuits moving their way through the court system. I've been privy to a couple that involve assisted living homes. Theaters will open themselves up to legal action if they open in the current environment. I'll leave it at that.

[Barnack]

25 minutes ago, doublejack said:

Theaters will open themselves up to legal action if they open in the current environment. I'll leave it at that.

Well yes that a different affair.

 

25 minutes ago, doublejack said:

It can be something as simple as a sick employee working,

That I doubt it is true, it require to be reasonable for the theater to have known about it.

 

25 minutes ago, doublejack said:

a sick customer that's allowed entry and not removed

If he has ostensible symptoms yes otherwise no.

 

25 minutes ago, doublejack said:

There are already COVID related lawsuits moving their way through the court system. I've been privy to a couple that involve assisted living homes. 

And all the case going forward are trying to demonstrate fault in some ways, not just the result being enough, right?

 

Will see but I doubt if we remember to look in 2024 that we will be able to find a significant amount of grocery store loosing case for customer getting COVID inside them in april-may 2020. when they were acting in what was considered a reasonable fashion or cities that operated a Subway/city bus, judge and the legal system will be reasonable and a unreasonable fault will need to be demonstrated (and you need actual money to exist, it would soon become irrelevant to win such laws). Workplace that forced sick worker to work can get hit hard but that a different subject.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Barnack

[lorddemaxus]

I'm guessing WB is waiting on UK and Australia's plans since they are supposed to announce their schedules this week. If they are going ahead with an late June/early July reopening, I guess Tenet is releasing. Only problem is that NY is will reopen cinemas only a week before the movie releases (assuming that NY doesn't suffer from surges) since cinemas are in the last phase of the 4 phase plan. I wonder if WB won't care about that and will just hope that NY audiences will watch it later in its run or something.

Edited May 7, 2020 by lorddemaxus

[Macleod]

The only thing Warner Bros. and Disney have to bank on by keeping these dates, at this point, is the reality that IF they stick to those dates and encourage most of the rest of the global theater industry to open for them, they will essentially be the only two movies in the marketplace (that anyone cares about), so in spacing out seats in half or 1/3 filled screens as precaution, they would hope to make up for that by gaining screens in every theater across the country/world...with 50% of screens for TENET and 50% of screens for MULAN. 

 

Within a week or so, we'll see if Warners and Disney will bark or retreat and wait for a better, more prosperous time. 

[DAJK]

Covid-19 isn't the only virus that has likely been inside a movie theatre lol. Guaranteed, people in the past at some point have likely gotten (and died from) the flu or some other disease that they contracted from someone while at a movie theatre or some other public place. I gotta agree with Barnack here

[TLK]

Air-conditioning is a major issue in places like movie theaters. How can you not have air-conditioning in a closed place full of people but then the air currents make social distancing irrelevant. It doesn't really matter if people are sitting 6 feet apart if the air currents are carrying the germs. I think the intensity of pandemic will have to slow down considerably before theaters will open everywhere. Mid-July is going to be touch and go.

[CJohn]

Every time I look at the schedule and see WW84, Tenet and Mulan in the Summer I LAUGH. Give me VOD option same day or die a painful death.

[TMP]

19 minutes ago, CJohn said:

Every time I look at the schedule and see WW84, Tenet and Mulan in the Summer I LAUGH. Give me VOD option same day or die a painful death.

And of those three, only TENET looks like a decent film.

[lorddemaxus]

36 minutes ago, CJohn said:

Every time I look at the schedule and see WW84, Tenet and Mulan in the Summer I LAUGH. Give me VOD option same day or die a painful death.

Your assumption that a VOD option would make the movies successful is wrong tho.

[CloneWars]

2 hours ago, TLK said:

Air-conditioning is a major issue in places like movie theaters. How can you not have air-conditioning in a closed place full of people but then the air currents make social distancing irrelevant. It doesn't really matter if people are sitting 6 feet apart if the air currents are carrying the germs. I think the intensity of pandemic will have to slow down considerably before theaters will open everywhere. Mid-July is going to be touch and go.

The air conditioning is a good point there. Regardless, I think Covid cases are about to rise again, and theaters will end up staying closed, so it will be a moot point.

[WittyUsername]

Suggesting that a $200 million Christopher Nolan movie ought to go straight to video on demand is ridiculous. 

[A Marvel Fanboy]

F*ck social distancing, I want to see this film in a theater on any day. I dont care even if it is end of the world.

 

that said, theaters are 10 times safer than restaurants or cafes. If the latter can open, why theaters cannot.

Edited May 8, 2020 by A Marvel Fanboy