PAPA NOL∀N'S TENƎꓕ | August 26 internationally. September 2 "in select US cities" | 75% on RT after 228 reviews

[MrPink]

Please please spoiler tag some of those summarized story beats.

[lorddemaxus]

53 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Also a big David Lynch fan, but I see a massive difference between Lynch being complex and Nolan being complex. Nolan has very simplistic thematic statements wrapped up in very densely complicated surface-level plotting, while Lynch tends to have the surface-level plotting be rather simple but wrapped up in deeply complex themes underneath. I do hope you enjoy it though, with golden sunshine all along the way!

I don't think many people understand Lynch films on a basic plot level either. And I don't think Lynch's movies are wrapped up in complex themes. His surrealist style is moreso about creating a unique sensory experience. Yeah, his films can also be thematically engaging but I don't think he indulges in his style because he wants to use it to explore more complicated themes (something he doesn't seem to care about much). I think he just wants to create a unique, hallucinatory experience and the confusing element is just part of that.

Edited September 1, 2020 by lorddemaxus

[Michael Seng Wah]

Scott Mendelson has given it rotten.

[Eric Atreides]

Just a reminder we have a spoiler thread

 

 

[Lucas]

Just now, MrPink said:

Please please spoiler tag some of those summarized story beats.

It was meant for the spoiler thread but accidentally ended up here, I got rid of it within 5 seconds, sorry you happened to catch it.

[Lucas]

4 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

I don't think many people understand Lynch films on a basic plot level either. And I don't think Lynch's movies are wrapped up in complex themes. His surrealist elements are moreso about creating a unique sensory experience. Yeah, his films can also be thematically engaging but I don't think he indulges in his style because he wants to use it to explore more complicated themes (something he doesn't seem to care about at all tbh). I think he just wants to create a unique, hallucinatory experience and the confusing element is just part of that.

Sure, but I get a lot out of them whereas thematically Nolan is very simple in what he's saying. I find Eraserhead to be tackling themes of the advancement of technology, the theory of dream logic, the fears of settling, existentialism, sexual lust, and the evils of the atom bomb - but the surface level narrative of what's physically happening on the screen is a man not being ready to start a family. Nolan on the other hand would have that surface level narrative be obscenely complicated and dense with plotting and exposition, but what it's in service for is very simple.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Lucas

[lorddemaxus]

7 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Sure, but I get a lot out of them whereas thematically Nolan is very simple in what he's saying. I find Eraserhead to be tackling themes of the advancement of technology, the theory of dream logic, the fears of settling, existentialism, sexual lust, and the evils of the atom bomb - but the surface level narrative of what's physically happening on the screen is a man not being ready to start a family. Nolan on the other hand would have that surface level narrative be obscenely complicated and dense with plotting and exposition, but what it's in service for is very simple.

But many of those are very, very open to interpretation and likely not even Lynch's intention. I haven't seen Eraserhead, but based on the other films I've seen of his and the person himself, I don't think Lynch is a filmmaker who deeply cares about the ideas you are talking about. If you found many complicated themes in his work, that's great but I just don't think that's specifically what he wants people to get from his films. 

 

I honestly also think Nolan's become more of a director who doesn't care about the details of plotting and having people analyse every single element but a director who also values the sensory experience of his films. Dunkirk and Interstellar were clearly more about that than the plot. Even reading reviews about Tenet from people I follow, the exposition in the movie isn't really about setting the rules (like with something like Inception).

[imbruglia]

RT Critics

79% / avg 7.2 out of 10 rating from 141 reviews

 

All Audience score

80% / avg 4.06 out of 5 rating from  591 ratings.

 

(verified only have 33 right now with 94% / avg 4.44 rating)

 

[CloneWars]

I got my tickets. Looks like I'm driving 2 hours down to San Diego to watch it.

[WittyUsername]

Why are we comparing Christopher Nolan to David Lynch? They’re two completely different filmmakers.

[Merkel]

I don't think a movie requiring at least two viewings to understand its plot is necessarily a good sign. To understand its themes, aesthetic, message and most importantly, story, sure. But not plot

[FilmFincher]

I think you can get it one viewing if you're paying attention, it follows your basic spy film to a tee (Bond villain included). Not going into specifics but there's a lot of 'we have to get the thing to infiltrate the thing, which leads us to the next thing and then to stop the thing' etc. I think audiences can get just follow that thread as a basic spy action film and enjoy the crazy time action. 

 

It's the time inversion aspect on top of that, that I reckon is getting to people. I thought they did a great job showing how it works and the mechanics of it. But outside of knowing some thing move forwards/some move back there's not an extreme amount that's paramount to keeping up with the plot (I'm sure there's a couple of things left on the table). I feel Nolan had to do a lot more teaching of concepts in Inception compared to this. Maybe when time stuff is in play it's always going to throw audiences for a loop.

[wildphantom]

2 hours ago, Merkel said:

I don't think a movie requiring at least two viewings to understand its plot is necessarily a good sign. To understand its themes, aesthetic, message and most importantly, story, sure. But not plot

Not a good sign that what?

 

it has been designed to be seen twice. Simple as that. It’s a piece of art that has been designed and executed to demonstrate the point of its subject.  It’s hard to describe without spoilers so I won’t get into that of course.  Yet the penny will drop if/when you watch it a second time.  
If people aren’t up for doing that then fine. 
 

That’s not to say its basic plot can’t be understood first time. Anybody should be able to follow it.  The mechanics of it do require a second viewing though - and (I know I keep repeating this) that IS the point of it. 
 

there’s been plenty of films over the years that have revealed more with subsequent viewings.  From Kubrick and Lynch, to Gondry and Richard Kelly. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by wildphantom

[kitik]

What were the Monday night numbers?

[RealLyre]

haven't seen Tenet but a stark difference between Nolan and Lynch for me has been how Lynch doesn't try to make you understand his stories while Nolan tries as best as he can with his terrific exposition. it's kinda hard for me to get confused watching Interstellar or Inception when everything is explained as simply as possible imo.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by RealLyre

[CoolioD1]

the succinct version is Nolan = puzzles and Lynch = dreams.

[RealLyre]

why is Tenet still not certified fresh on RT? it's at 78% and it got over 140 reviews. it was in the low 80s for the past week with 100+ reviews. meanwhile I'm Thinking of Ending Things is already certified fresh from only 46 reviews.. 

 

Rotten Tomatoes certified fresh process will remain a mystery for me i guess

 

 

 

[WittyUsername]

2 hours ago, RealLyre said:

why is Tenet still not certified fresh on RT? it's at 78% and it got over 140 reviews. it was in the low 80s for the past week with 100+ reviews. meanwhile I'm Thinking of Ending Things is already certified fresh from only 46 reviews.. 

 

Rotten Tomatoes certified fresh process will remain a mystery for me i guess

 

 

 

Probably because RT now allows pretty much anyone to be a certified critic, meaning that there are likely a good 300+ reviews on the way. 

[sfran43]

 

[antovolk]

Now I’ve seen this properly (and first, serious serious hats off to that London drive in - Troubadour Meridian Water in Enfield - for *nailing* the sound, dialogue and music as clear as it can be over radio - even fixing some of original cinema mix’s much reported issues. Just quality of everything, *this* is the place to go if you aren’t, like me, ready for indoor cinema at this time)... this isn’t Nolan’s masterpiece. But it certainly is the *most* Nolan. It’s a hell of an unwieldy beast. Less Bond but more...Mission Impossible Fallout - it’s relentless. As mentioned first time there’s something in the way it doesn’t unleash the timey wimey madness right away but it gradually builds, the inversion is almost a character in itself, before it goes all out nuts.

He lulls us into an old school almost by the numbers but slick and very Nolan still spy thriller before pulling the rug under us almost. The world building in this also, we’ve seen elements of this with Inception and Interstellar and odds of sequels/prequels/inverquels are nil but the world of Tenet is one I really hope Nolan allows further canonised exploration of - maybe comics? So much more to explore here. There’s a certain self awareness to it all, people say Nolan’s made the film people stereotype him for and he did! On purpose, knowingly. 

The cast is absolutely impeccable here, JDW and Pattinson are just dynamite and carry this entire thing, Washington especially. Of course there’s a certain element of wish they were in it more with Caine, Taylor Johnson, Poésy etc but they were great as they are. Ultimately and I don’t think that’s a bad thing, they’re all chess pieces in this massive game that Nolan’s laying out, the fate of the world. Can we talk about Dimple Kapadia as the absolute MVP though, what a fresh-feeling and charismatic twist on an M-type figure. In fact there’s something in the way Nolan plays with all those Bond/spy tropes with the right balance of freshness, self awareness and straightheadedness. 


The one IMO weakness is how much the themes for the first time end up taking a backseat. There’s always been something thematic driving the high concept - eg returning to family in Inception - but here that aspect felt like a box tick mention. But appropriate for the spy genre? After all, this is a save the world story, with the biggest stakes for a Nolan film yet. The scale of this is just jaw dropping, especially knowing how much was shot and executed for real. And Ludwig’s score, my god. Relentless, it’s very evocative of Nolan’s new more experimental and visceral blockbuster stage of filmmaking he’s come into with Dunkirk and now this. The detail and the intricacies of it, while carrying an incredible energy throughout and feeling fresh. And I really appreciated the Bondian touches - the guitar, the synergy with Travis Scott’s song... 


Looking forward to diving even more with the screenplay, home release and..one day...when this is closer to over...IMAX 70mm...