Alita: Battle Angel ***SPOILER THREAD***

[TomCruiseTop]

19 hours ago, Serg91 said:

They did not use the full potential of this story. It could be at the level of the best works of Cameron. I liked it, but I know it could be much better.

It could always be better with Jim. 

[Avatree]

sure, I suppose it could be better & its very flawed. couldn't all movies be improved in some ways?

 

For me i just appreciate seeing a fresh and original large scale film on a big screen and being able to enjoy it. I cannot say the same for 90% of modern blockbuster type films.

[TomCruiseTop]

Norton hasn't been in many movies lately, would be nice to see him back in a major role. 

[Legion Again]

Holy shit, the manga gets WILD. I’m very interested how they’d adapt things for a second and third movie, but also you’d need like 10 movies to cover all of the rest of this stuff.

[IronJimbo]

1 minute ago, Thanos Legion said:

Holy shit, the manga gets WILD. I’m very interested how they’d adapt things for a second and third movie, but also you’d need like 10 movies to cover all of the rest of this stuff.

Yeah I want the motorball arc to be done greatly.

 

Kinda of not hopeful for that because of the timeskip at the end of the film

 

Unless it goes back in time again at the start of the sequel.

Edited February 21, 2019 by IronJimbo

[chuck0]

45 minutes ago, Thanos Legion said:

Holy shit, the manga gets WILD. I’m very interested how they’d adapt things for a second and third movie, but also you’d need like 10 movies to cover all of the rest of this stuff.

yeah, it really takes off after volume 4

I guess one could do a sequel that starts off with a bit of 3/4 which culminates in 5 and then do one or two movies that cover the tuned arc and the finale.... would have to reread the manga to be more specific (which i will probably do in the next few weeks  )

[Mr Impossible]

I think this movie would've benefited a lot if they didn't rush the romance. I think they should've been on the friend zone at the end of the film. It would've been better if they explored their relationship more in the sequel. I don't know does he come back in the manga?

Edited February 21, 2019 by Mr Impossible

[chuck0]

5 minutes ago, Mr Impossible said:

I think this movie would've benefited a lot if they didn't rush the romance. I don't think they should've been on the friend zone at the end of the film. It would've been better if they explored their relationship more in the sequel. I don't know does he come back in the manga?

Spoiler

He ded

But yeah, he is a more interesting character in the manga (though not necessarily more likable) which helps with the romance. Probably the main difference is that Alita is drawn to him because he is really driven in a very intense way to ge to Zalem (got the feeling that in the movie he is simply a cool dude she falls for). Also he has a tragic backstory that was skipped.

Edited February 21, 2019 by chuck0

[DMan7]

Didn't expected to see Jai Courtney and Ed Norton in this. Cameron is full of surprises! 

[IronJimbo]

These are manga spoilers.

47 minutes ago, ElsaRoc said:

Spoiler

 

Reread the manga (and the two volumes of Last Order I had lying around) and it's still fantastic. There are a few things that bother me more than they did 20 years ago, but Kishiro is an amazing draftsman, and the action scaling is really, really fun. (Hugo has few redeeming qualities; critique of the actor aside, they made the character much more palatable in the movie. Ido also has some questionable motivations.)

 

If we do get a sequel, it will be interesting to see what they do going forward with the story. While there is a lot of material to draw from (8.5 volumes of the original series, 19 of Last Order, and 6+ of Mars Chronicle, in addition to Ashen Victor and the various side stories), it would have to be condensed to work movie-wise.

 

(The last half of volume 9 was retconned away when Last Order started.)

 

The movie mostly drew from volumes 1&2, with a bit of 3 thrown in, as well as some characters from the anime. Grewishka was a character in the anime who largely replaces Makaku from the manga. Chiren only existed in the anime. Given the changes in some characters' storylines, there are a few developments in the later story that won't work. (I'll not mention them for spoiler reasons.) Some of these changes make sense from a storytelling economy standpoint.

 

At a guess, they'd keep the sequel covering volumes 3&4 (the Motorball sequence) and 5 (which largely closes out the "Scrapyard Arc"). That would be good, IMO, because if there's only one sequel we get, that would make the two films mostly self-contained. (Although in this case, there would be little revealed about Zalem, Mars, and such.)

 

 

 

Spoiler

I liked Alita learning motorball and having her first race where she was an underdog, whereas in the film we've already had this and it wasn't a game... it was a hunt.

 

Also with the timeskip at the end of the film it already shows solid contender and got a bunch of fans. I think to have multipe motorball races in this sequel we're going to need a team race.

 

I love Jashagun as a character, I really really hope he gets a full character arc, if he does the rest of motorball will fall into place.

 

I'm guessing this film will have to have some Dr. Nova up to no good and Zapan's revenge

 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by IronJimbo

[dashrendar44]

Do people actually realize how much of a scumbag Hugo actually is most of the movie?

 

When you rewatch the movie, his character gets a way darker tinge when we know he's mugging cyborgs for their body parts.

 

That glance he gives Alita after they meet cute gets a more sinister undertone. Alita is smitten, he looks like he's wondering how she's probably worth millions on the black market.

 

He jacked the cutters at Vector's order then delivered them to Chiren, the same deadly cutters that tear Alita into pieces. He never atones for that.

 

Then Vector asks him to convince Alita to race in Motorball even though by now Hugo should have known that Vector, Chiren and Grewishka are tagging along to kill Alita. He still complies giving up Alita on a plate for a ticket to Zalem not giving a damn if Alita gets killed at the motorball race by Vector goons. (I mean he didn't even plan to attend it lol).

 

Before his buddy gets sliced by Zapan, he says "I told you we should have jacked that bitch when we had the chance..." meaning at some point they discussed ripping Alita's body parts for money.

 

Dude acted like a dope fiend ready to sacrifice everyone that cares for him to get to Zalem (The script doesn't lean too much on that addict subtext but I think he was addicted to his dream, willing to do "whatever it takes" to a fault) until Alita wakes up his guilty conscience way too late. He definetely didn't deserve Alita's empathy and compassion, deep inside he knew it too when he refuses her heart. Like Ido said, Iron City corrupts everyone except Alita.

Edited March 7, 2019 by dashrendar44

[TomCruiseTop]

Great write up/analysis dash. 

[BK007]

Just saw this today, and it would be sad if it will be the only one of its series.

 

I've only read the posts on this page of the thread, but am not inclined to read more if there will be spoilers revealed from the manga. 

 

Anyway, it's not original to bash critics and complain how Americanized reviews are online, but I'm going to go there. How does this have such a poor rating when Marvel (and superhero) generic crap continues to score highly? I have always held that there is a bias towards certain types of films and this just further proves it. Sci-fi & fantasy are hard to get right, but I think Alita really delivers. Yet, we are meant to believe that Black Panther is revolutionary? 

 

I do like watching blockbusters, superhero and Marvel films. As long as a movie is entertaining, it's done its job, but please don't make movies out to be objectively greater than others when it's really not. Generic superhero trash always rates highly (for some reason, it is deemed American pride for critics) over fantasy and sci-fi that go for originality. Alita is a movie made for international audiences and I'm glad that it's making quite a tidy sum. Hopefully it'll be enough for a sequel. How likely it is, is really up in the air considering Disney now own Fox. A sad reflection of the state of blockbuster cinema. 

 

Glad that others have enjoyed it as I did. 

[WhiteWings]

You guys get it, despite being in development for twenty years this movie still managed to be a few years ahead of its time. 👍

Maybe it'll get the recognition it deserves once the GA doesn't have to pay a ticket to see it, and it'll open some eyes to something new, yet familiar.

[Avatree]

2 hours ago, WhiteWings said:

Maybe it'll get the recognition it deserves once the GA doesn't have to pay to see it.

always the mark of a classic.

[shayhiri]

7 hours ago, BK007 said:

Anyway, it's not original to bash critics and complain how Americanized reviews are online, but I'm going to go there. How does this have such a poor rating when Marvel (and superhero) generic crap continues to score highly? I have always held that there is a bias towards certain types of films and this just further proves it. Sci-fi & fantasy are hard to get right, but I think Alita really delivers. Yet, we are meant to believe that Black Panther is revolutionary?

 

To answer you bluntly: they are paid. Everyone is corrupted, just like in Iron City.

 

Stupid also, and narrow-minded most of all - but there is definitely an underlying bias that just gets easier and easier to see, especially with the latest Disney-Marvel fiasco. The corporate mugs will stop at nothing to keep their cake, and paying dirty money for disinformation, "influencing" and censorship is the LEAST they would do - and are already doing it, on all possible levels.

[chuck0]

10 hours ago, dashrendar44 said:

Do people actually realize how much of a scumbag Hugo actually is most of the movie?

 

When you rewatch the movie, his character gets a way darker tinge when we know he's mugging cyborgs for their body parts.

 

That glance he gives Alita after they meet cute gets a more sinister undertone. Alita is smitten, he looks like he's wondering how she's probably worth millions on the black market.

 

He jacked the cutters at Vector's order then delivered them to Chiren, the same deadly cutters that tear Alita into pieces. He never atones for that.

 

Then Vector asks him to convince Alita to race in Motorball even though by now Hugo should have known that Vector, Chiren and Grewishka are tagging along to kill Alita. He still complies giving up Alita on a plate for a ticket to Zalem not giving a damn if Alita gets killed at the motorball race by Vector goons. (I mean he didn't even plan to attend it lol).

 

Before his buddy gets sliced by Zapan, he says "I told you we should have jacked that bitch when we had the chance..." meaning at some point they discussed ripping Alita's body parts for money.

 

Dude acted like a dope fiend ready to sacrifice everyone that cares for him to get to Zalem (The script doesn't lean too much on that addict subtext but I think he was addicted to his dream, willing to do "whatever it takes" to a fault) until Alita wakes up his guilty conscience way too late. He definetely didn't deserve Alita's empathy and compassion, deep inside he knew it too when he refuses her heart. Like Ido said, Iron City corrupts everyone except Alita.

Yeah he is pretty sinister (though i do not think that he knew about the plot to assasinate Alita in the motorball race. Though i guess he could have due to the grind cutter thing? Now that i think about it you are right... damn). In the source material he did not stop at taking arms and legs... he took spinal columns. His desire for Zalem is also a bit more on the manic/obsessive side because of his backstory. They toned him down quite a bit for the movie.

 

 

 

 

[dashrendar44]

10 hours ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

Great write up/analysis dash. 

 

Thanks, there's a lot to be said about the dichotomy of determinism vs free will which is expressed through visuals and dialogue. (Vector and Grewishka are determinism proponents when Alita and Ido illustrate existentialism while Chiren and Hugo are torn in between those two poles. Nova gets a kick playing with those notions).

 

What I also noticed visually is the three distinct levels of Alita's journey that is crystallized in those following sequences which convey a lot through visuals and music only:

 

1) Her awakening. We're basically witnessing her (re)birth and Alita harnessing her body like an innocent child. Note the mirror.

 

2) Her metamorphosis when she's transforming into a fighter harnessing her strength and her personal identity. Ending with the fist raise at the mirror, again.

 

3) Her self-realization. She's now hardened through hardships, ready to fly on her own as a young adult (without Ido's protective cartwheels who also accepted to let go when the "broken doll" body got crushed). Note how she's slicing her tears in front of a mirror, again.

 

imo, the mirror reflection is there for the character's actualization to question "Who Am I?" and responding with actions, each time she determines who this person she sees in the mirror is. Every character tries to define her but ultimately she is the one who gets to decide who she wants to be now. Like Ido says the body is just shell, not good or bad, it's up to her to decide. Not even Ido can determine her at that point since he fancies himself as his surrogate father that reconstructed her. (It's part of his arc as well when she says to Hugo after enlisting as a hunter-warrior against Ido's will: "Whose rule do I abide? His or mine?")

 

Also the hero's journey beats. Especially her descent into the cave to experience the "game changer" that catalyzes her transformation into a hero.

 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by dashrendar44

[TomCruiseTop]

Someone should collect together all the amazing analysis and content that Alita has generated.