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Porthos

Star Wars: The Clone Wars | Disney+ | Final Season Starts Feb 17 | Queen Ahsoka's Coming to Save us All

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I'm surprised they'e getting into the actual siege in the first episode of the arc. I thought that wouldn't happen until the last 2

36 minutes ago, Menor said:

In that thread he also confirmed that it will be longer than the usual episodes

 Maybe 40 minutes instead of 30? 

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18 minutes ago, clockwork said:

I'm surprised they'e getting into the actual siege in the first episode of the arc. I thought that wouldn't happen until the last 2

 Maybe 40 minutes instead of 30? 

That would be amazing, but I don't want to get my hopes up and have it be 25 minutes instead of 22 or something like that.

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4 minutes ago, Menor said:

That would be amazing, but I don't want to get my hopes up and have it be 25 minutes instead of 22 or something like that.

That's what I'm expecting, FWIW. :ph34r:

 

===

 

Though, to be fair, one thing SW on D+ has consistently shown is a willingness to ignore 30, 45, 60 minute guidelines if commercials were added.  IIRC, there was a TCW episode that clocked in under 20m and Mando episodes  went everywhere from 25m to 40m+.  They really are taking advantage of the variable length format here.

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On 4/14/2020 at 2:24 PM, Menor said:

That would be amazing, but I don't want to get my hopes up and have it be 25 minutes instead of 22 or something like that.

Wasn't 25 minutes...

 

Spoiler

Was 27 min though. :ph34r:

 

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Almost impossible to rate this as a single episode.  It is clear from the changed intro that this is eventually going to be cut as a movie.  A fitting bookend to the way it all started then.

 

A couple very slight quibbles here and there.  But otherwise a very strong start to what should be a roller coaster of an ending.  Gonna hold off more thoughts till we get deeper though.

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5 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Almost impossible to rate this as a single episode.  It is clear from the changed intro that this is eventually going to be cut as a movie.  A fitting bookend to the way it all started then.

If they had made this whole arc to be like a movie then I almost wish they'd just release the entire thing. But alas this "part 1" that we got was very solid. My only real nitpick was that sometimes the dialogue/voice acting felt a bit stilted, at least for me. But still, the fun has begun.

Edited by clockwork
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*checks*

 

Wow.  I am a baaaaad fan.  I was so caught up in the episode that I missed

Spoiler

The Kanan cameo in the intro. :ph34r:

 

...

 

Also... just keep punching me in the gut with that choice of music at the very beginning, why don'tcha, Filoni? 

Edited by Porthos
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Yeah had some minor quibbles but otherwise what a great start. Clone Wars can sometimes be hit and miss with stuff like hand to hand combat but I thought the action here was the best it has ever been. Obviously for nearly every character we know the destination but as Clone Wars has shown time and time again it's the journey that makes it special. 

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4 hours ago, Porthos said:

*checks*

 

Wow.  I am a baaaaad fan.  I was so caught up in the episode that I missed

  Reveal hidden contents

 

...

 

Also... just keep punching me in the gut with that choice of music at the very beginning, why don'tcha, Filoni? 

 

I did not notice that but I did twig to Sabine's mother working with Bo-Katan

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My general reaction could be summarized as

 

Da4Z5yc.gif

 

 

My only issue is that the episode moved a little too quickly. I would have liked to see some more Anakin/Obi/Ahsoka interactions before the Coruscant emergency hits.

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17 minutes ago, Menor said:

One thing that was interesting to me

  Hide contents

just how much Ahsoka has taken on the perspective of the Martez sisters. I think she was too harsh on Obi-Wan as Coruscant is not just some random planet and it makes little sense to prioritize Maul/Mandalore over Coruscant.

 

Yes, I was thinking that as well just now.

Spoiler

We as an audience are conditioned to want to take Ahsoka's side here.  Plus we have the benefit of hindsight as to what will happen.

 

But, c'mon.  An attack on Coruscant is of course going to bring in the Big Guns.  And that's before Palps "capture".

 

Where I do fault Obi-Wan here, however, is that he wasn't as sympathetic or understanding as he could be.  He gave some short, curt, replies that while understandable didn't help the situation at all.  He hardly tried to look for a solution here or even address Ahsoka's points.

 

If we want a Next Level Read, it's just showing how trapped the Jedi were here in a no-win situation that was exasperated by their own shortcomings.  Add into that being mentally ground down by the horrors of war, it's little surprise that Obi-Wan of, oh say TPM, would be shocked at the reactions of Obi-Wan just before RotS.

 

I don't fault Obi-Wan's stance.  It's quite logical and sound, tactically and perhaps even morally.  However his, oh let's call it bed side manner, has taken many hits over the war and it's showing here. 

 

Edited by Porthos
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Oh Ahsoka was being extremely unfair to Obi-Wan. 

 

Spoiler

 

I do think the show missed an opportunity to dig a little more under the scab that is Duchess Satine for Obi-Wan. It's not a stretch to think Obi-Wan doesn't want to go back to Mandalore because he might be afraid he'll end up losing control facing Maul, which is why he's overly dismissive/curt to Ahsoka.

 

But (episodes unseen) I don't think we'll get any of that going forward

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Yes, I was thinking that as well just now.

  Hide contents

We as an audience are conditioned to want to take Ahsoka's side here.  Plus we have the benefit of hindsight as to what will happen.

 

But, c'mon.  An attack on Coruscant is of course going to bring in the Big Guns.  And that's before Palps "capture".

 

Where I do fault Obi-Wan here, however, is that he wasn't as sympathetic or understanding as he could be.  He gave some short, curt, replies that while understandable didn't help the situation at all.  He hardly tried to look for a solution here or even address Ahsoka's points.

 

If we want a Next Level Read, it's just showing how trapped the Jedi were here in a no-win situation that was exasperated by their own shortcomings.  Add into that being mentally ground down by the horrors of war, it's little surprise that Obi-Wan of, oh say TPM, would be shocked at the reactions of Obi-Wan just before RotS.

 

I don't fault Obi-Wan's stance.  It's quite logical and sound, tactically and perhaps even morally.  However his, oh let's call it bed side manner, has taken many hits over the war and it's showing here. 

 

To put it more bluntly:

Spoiler

 

Obi-Wan acted like a general there.  And that's one of the major problems with how the Jedi handled the entire war.

 

If we want a Second Level Read, Ahoska acted like a revolutionary there, leaping to a violent solution to end a conflict and Save Lives.

 

Which, if one recalls, is how this mess started in the first place. The Jedi were presented with a problem that their morals couldn't let slide.  So they took upon themselves the mantle of generals instead of peacekeepers.

 

It is.. ironic (said in his best Palpatine voice) that Ahsoka was led straight into a trap when she got to play general (even if she didn't want to).

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, 4815162342 said:

Oh Ahsoka was being extremely unfair to Obi-Wan. 

 

  Hide contents

 

I do think the show missed an opportunity to dig a little more under the scab that is Duchess Satine for Obi-Wan. It's not a stretch to think Obi-Wan doesn't want to go back to Mandalore because he might be afraid he'll end up losing control facing Maul, which is why he's overly dismissive/curt to Ahsoka.

 

But (episodes unseen) I don't think we'll get any of that going forward

 

 

Yeah, that was a BS comment on Ahsoka's part, no doubt about it.

 

Though, it's interesting you bring that up as I was just about to mention that I was struck by something Obi-Wan did say in that little confrontation. 

Spoiler

Namely that Ahsoka should try to capture Maul as opposed to trying to kill him.  Sure he crouched it in "it didn't take the first time" (paraphrasing).  But he could have said "make sure to finish him off this time".

 

That he of all people wanted Maul to be captured instead of killed... Well to draw it back into my last post about the failings of the Jedi, it still shows that throughout it all, throughout all of the horrors and moral compromises, Obi-Wan at least still had the heart of a Jedi beating in him.

 

I don't know how intentional it was to have that line on Filoni's part, so I don't want to over-read it.  But... it is interesting when juxtaposed with the "Go into Mandalore and assassinate duel take out Maul undertones of the original plan.

 

Just something that struck me just now as I was thinking about how Ahsoka acted like the very Jedi she claims to be disappointed in.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Porthos said:

To put it more bluntly:

 

 

Agreed.

Spoiler

I was struggling to put a word to what Ahsoka's moral code seemed to be in that moment but you nailed it. She's become the other extreme to Obi-Wan/the Jedi -- while they put too much focus on the bigger galactic picture and ignore the needs of individuals, Ahsoka seems to have developed an aversion to considering the bigger galactic picture at all. Certainly Obi-Wan's tone didn't help, though I think he's had that issue since well before the war (the "another pathetic life form" jab from TPM springs to mind).

 

(To be fair, Ahsoka was doing a similar thing to Anakin at first. Her statements were reasonable as they were pressed for time, but man did she come off as cold and Anakin was clearly hurt. Everyone was so stressed out in that moment that pretty much everything said was coming off the wrong way)

 

I do wonder, though, what alternatives the Jedi had in the Clone Wars besides playing general? Staying on the sidelines would have led to a propaganda campaign of "Jedi sit back while the Separatists come for your homes". I think they would have needed some real structural reforms well before the war, to become less institutionalized/stuck in their ivory tower and be more visible and responsive to the needs of citizens. That would have probably made it much harder for Palpatine to pin blame on them.

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5 minutes ago, Menor said:

I do wonder, though, what alternatives the Jedi had in the Clone Wars besides playing general? Staying on the sidelines would have led to a propaganda campaign of "Jedi sit back while the Separatists come for your homes". I think they would have needed some real structural reforms well before the war, to become less institutionalized/stuck in their ivory tower and be more visible and responsive to the needs of citizens. That would have probably made it much harder for Palpatine to pin blame on them.

Well, yeah, that's why the prequels are best viewed as a Tragedy (either Greek or Shakespearian, take your pick).  A no-win situation was present.  But as you note, it was at least partially a no-win situation thanks to the Jedi themselves getting ossified and drawn into politics.

 

I will be... surprised if the upcoming The High Republic doesn't show some of the seeds being planted that led to the rot centuries later.

 

 

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Of course, the meta reason for all of this is that the series is called Star WARS not Star PEACE. Kinda hard to have a bunch of Warrior Monks running around in a series about peace and tranquility. :lol: 

 

====

 

Though I do joke here, one of the absolute best things about the prequels taken in their totality is looking at the inherent conflict between people who are supposed to be about tranquility and peace and all that jazz and... being Warrior Monks who run around with Laser Swords chopping off the limbs of ne'er-do-wells. 

 

Looking at how that could.. or perhaps inevitably will cause a fundamental disconnect is something I am very glad Lucas brought to the table.  And it's an inherent conflict that I don't think SW as a whole has every quite satisfactorily answered.  Or can answer, for that matter.  It's one of the reasons people keep looking for ways for characters to be "Gray" Jedi or "Good" Sith.  They keep looking for ways to be able to fight and mess people up punish bad people with extreme force if necessary when that is somewhat (and I do mean somewhat so we don't go off on a huge tangent here) contradictory to the Light Side in general.

 

But to tie this back into my joke, as long as this is Star WARS, it's a square that can't ever be circled.  Because... kinda have to have violence if there is war.

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