The Boy and the Heron | Hayao Miyazaki | Studio Ghibli | GKIDS | NA Debut at TIFF | WINNER OF THE OSCAR FOR BEST ANIMATED FEATURE

[MovieMan89]

17 minutes ago, Valencia said:

Not really.

 

The other second runner up animation TIFF winner won nothing it got nominated for.

 

And that one had a 91 Metacritic lol.

I don’t know which film you’re talking about, but I can assure you the Academy won’t ignore a Miyazaki film with this kind of praise. It is mind boggling Spirited Away was able to win all the way back in 2003 when anime was still comepltemy dismissed in the west, and says everything you need to know about how Hollywood has viewed Miyazaki for a long time. He is a legend among many industry pundits. 

[Valencia]

30 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

I don’t know which film you’re talking about, but I can assure you the Academy won’t ignore a Miyazaki film with this kind of praise. It is mind boggling Spirited Away was able to win all the way back in 2003 when anime was still comepltemy dismissed in the west, and says everything you need to know about how Hollywood has viewed Miyazaki for a long time. He is a legend among many industry pundits. 

The other nominees were Ice Age, Treasure Planet, Lilo and Stitch and Spirit.

 

It was a hilariously bad line up at the time even by animation standards.

 

So bad Spirited away was actually the highest grossing nominee that year of that line up to begin with.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Valencia

[JustLurking]

33 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

It has the edge over Elemental, and I’ll stand by that. The critical reception between them aren’t even far apart at all, except one was an all-timer box office phenom and the other was Pixar’s second biggest box office failure ever. Lightyear and Dinosaur couldn’t get in just based on Pixar’s name either among comparable films to Elemental. Mostly though, there’s zero chance Mario isn’t a favorite among voter’s kids, and as we’ve mentioned, the Academy has outright admitted in the past that’s how a lot of them vote for that cat. 

look, you want to think mario has more of a chance than elemental that's your prerogative. just don't pretend it was a surprise later on if it doesn't happen.

[ThomasNicole]

This is obviously going to be nominated and likely win, GKids just need to push hard

 

And obviously Elemental have way more chances getting nominated than Mario because one is a Pixar movie that at least have something to say about Korean immigrants and Mario is just dumb fun, which is fine but there’s too much competition this year 

 

If elemental ended up being a bomb maybe but it’s beloved by audiences, ended up being profitable in theaters and is a streaming phenomenon, it’ll be remembered.

Edited September 20, 2023 by ThomasNicole

[harrisonisdead]

Interestingly, in the 23 year history of the animated feature category, the highest grossing animated movie of the year has only been nominated 10 times, so a little less than half of the time. In the past 10 years, the highest grossing has only been nominated 3 times, which were Incredibles 2, Big Hero 6, and Frozen. So although the Academy has rather populist tastes in this category, that doesn't necessarily extend to the hyper-populist entries that have topped the box office over the years, which tend to be Illumination films, or Ice Ages, or whatever. Movies that appeal to families but are basically substance-free.

 

The reason Pixar (and to a slightly lesser extent, WDAS) films do so well in the category is that they're very populist, they're very kid-friendly, but they are also movies that the Academy feels "matters." They can honor the movies their kids like while still not having to resort to the completely vacant stuff. It hits the sweet spot. Mario's box office run was crazy, but it also will have been very old news by the time nominations come around. Elemental's slow-burn goodwill might be more of an asset here.

 

Anyways, I wouldn't discount Nimona or Chicken Run 2 as contenders, so it's a pretty competitive category regardless. Netflix has had 7 animated movies nominated in the past 4 years, have to imagine at least one of those will make it.

Edited September 20, 2023 by harrisonisdead

[ZeroHour]

Did Nimona get a qualifying theater run? That movie just sort of felt like it came and went even by Netflix standards. 

[CoolioD1]

3 hours ago, MovieMan89 said:

 Mostly though, there’s zero chance Mario isn’t a favorite among voter’s kids, and as we’ve mentioned, the Academy has outright admitted in the past that’s how a lot of them vote for that cat. 

That's only for the wins tbh. There's an actual animation branch that picks the nominees and then the whole academy votes on the winners. That's why artistic animated movies can get nominated and then the Disney movie always wins. Won't help mario because it won't get past that first hurdle of a nomination.

[Bob Train]

16 minutes ago, ZeroHour said:

Did Nimona get a qualifying theater run? That movie just sort of felt like it came and went even by Netflix standards. 

Yeah, a few months back.

[harrisonisdead]

22 minutes ago, ZeroHour said:

Did Nimona get a qualifying theater run? That movie just sort of felt like it came and went even by Netflix standards. 

It did have a theatrical release, yeah.

I think it could be a similar situation to The Sea Beast. Nobody really expected that to be nominated (it was ranked 16th on Variety's predictions). It was similarly a fairly low-profile Netflix release. But apparently being on Netflix means a lot of families (and, by extension, Academy members) casually know about the film even if it doesn't have huge audible buzz, so it can be a sleeper slip-in. The Sea Beast also had a surprising amount of support within the animation industry -- it had a strong showing at the Annie Awards. I feel like Nimona could have some of that in-industry support as well.

Edited September 20, 2023 by harrisonisdead

[MovieMan89]

3 hours ago, Valencia said:

The other nominees were Ice Age, Treasure Planet, Lilo and Stitch and Spirit.

 

It was a hilariously bad line up at the time even by animation standards.

 

So bad Spirited away was actually the highest grossing nominee that year of that line up to begin with.

 

What kind of crazy revisionist history?!? Lilo and Stitch is literally as iconic in western animation as it gets. Not only now,  but also at the time of release considering it was a massive box office hit and critical success that was the one and only time in the 00s Disney was able to replicate their commercial and critical acclaim of their Renaissance. Not to mention Stitch merch immediately became one of the most popular merch characters for Disney, a title he still holds two decades later. L&S should have mopped the floor with SA with the Academy in theory, it was a MASSIVE accomplishment for an anime to beat it. Both Frozens and maybe Zootopia are the only WDAS films since then to sell more tickets than L&S DOM, and even Zootopia is iffy given all of the 3D/imax inflation it had. 
 

Treasure Planet also has a huge cult following, but given it bombed at the time I’ll give you that it wasn’t the stiffest comp that year. 
 

Let’s also not forget the first Ice Age had solid critical reception and was extremely well received by audiences and at the box office. Bigger than any WDAS film this century besides the Frozens actually. So that also made far more “sense” to win against an anime with the Academy at the time. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by MovieMan89

[MovieMan89]

1 hour ago, ThomasNicole said:

This is obviously going to be nominated and likely win, GKids just need to push hard

 

And obviously Elemental have way more chances getting nominated than Mario because one is a Pixar movie that at least have something to say about Korean immigrants and Mario is just dumb fun, which is fine but there’s too much competition this year 

 

If elemental ended up being a bomb maybe but it’s beloved by audiences, ended up being profitable in theaters and is a streaming phenomenon, it’ll be remembered.

Elementals audience scores on the major audience metric sites like IMDB and Letterboxd are very far from “beloved” level, it was highly unlikely to be profitable from theatrical since the DOM gross was far too low against the budget, and I’ll give you the huge start on streaming but how it holds is key to being a streaming phenomenon. Just for these hyperbolic claims.

 

Can it get in at the Oscars over Mario? Sure, it’s Pixar after all. If Wish delivers though, Elemental’s chances at a nom go way down. It’s nowhere near acclaimed or successful enough to be a lock if Disney is already occupying a slot. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by MovieMan89

[cannastop]

1 hour ago, CoolioD1 said:

That's only for the wins tbh. There's an actual animation branch that picks the nominees and then the whole academy votes on the winners. That's why artistic animated movies can get nominated and then the Disney movie always wins. Won't help mario because it won't get past that first hurdle of a nomination.

Actually no. The whole academy chooses. Unless they changed the rules yet again 

[dudalb]

1 hour ago, MovieMan89 said:

What kind of crazy revisionist history?!? Lilo and Stitch is literally as iconic in western animation as it gets. Not only now,  but also at the time of release considering it was a massive box office hit and critical success that was the one and only time in the 00s Disney was able to replicate their commercial and critical acclaim of their Renaissance. Not to mention Stitch merch immediately became one of the most popular merch characters for Disney, a title he still holds two decades later. L&S should have mopped the floor with SA with the Academy in theory, it was a MASSIVE accomplishment for an anime to beat it. Both Frozens and maybe Zootopia are the only WDAS films since then to sell more tickets than L&S DOM, and even Zootopia is iffy given all of the 3D/imax inflation it had. 
 

Treasure Planet also has a huge cult following, but given it bombed at the time I’ll give you that it wasn’t the stiffest comp that year. 
 

Let’s also not forget the first Ice Age had solid critical reception and was extremely well received by audiences and at the box office. Bigger than any WDAS film this century besides the Frozens actually. So that also made far more “sense” to win against an anime with the Academy at the time. 

It has it's fans, but I would not call the following huge; it a pretty small cult.

The fist Ice Age film was pretty good, it was the sequels that made the name a symbol of mediocirty in animation.

But, yeah, Lilo and Stich is iconic.

Edited September 20, 2023 by dudalb

[cannastop]

Even if the whole academy chooses the animated feature nominees I doubt Mario will get in 

[dudalb]

4 minutes ago, cannastop said:

Actually no. The whole academy chooses. Unless they changed the rules yet again 

I think the rule is that the guild members vote for the nominees for the technical awards (Sound, Cinematography, etc) but the whole membership votes for the acting awards and the best picture nominees. That is why they have screenngs for academy members of documentaries .

[ZeroHour]

10 minutes ago, cannastop said:

Actually no. The whole academy chooses. Unless they changed the rules yet again 

I think this is still true. If I recall correctly, they changed it to the whole academy after the outcry that The Lego Movie wasn’t nominated (this was the year Big Hero 6 won).

[cannastop]

1 hour ago, ZeroHour said:

I think this is still true. If I recall correctly, they changed it to the whole academy after the outcry that The Lego Movie wasn’t nominated (this was the year Big Hero 6 won).

Yeah here are the rules:

https://www.oscars.org/sites/oscars/files/92aa_anim_feature.pdf

 

from the 92nd Oscars presented in 2020.

 

Quote

V. VOTING A. A chairperson, appointed by the Academy President, shall head the Animated Feature Nominating Committee. An invitation will be sent to all active and life Academy members, requesting their participation. Those serving on the committee will be required to see a minimum percentage of submitted eligible films as defined by the then-current procedures. B. All submitted eligible films will be made available to the Animated Feature Nominating Committee. The committee will vote by secret ballot. A nominations ballot shall be made available to all members of the Short Films and Feature Animation branch. The Nominating Committee members shall vote in the order of their preference for not more than five motion pictures. C. Final voting for the Animated Feature Film award shall be restricted to active and life Academy members.

Yeah any member of the Academy can be part of the nomination process.

[JustLurking]

3 hours ago, MovieMan89 said:

Elementals audience scores on the major audience metric sites like IMDB and Letterboxd are very far from “beloved” level, it was highly unlikely to be profitable from theatrical since the DOM gross was far too low against the budget, and I’ll give you the huge start on streaming but how it holds is key to being a streaming phenomenon. Just for these hyperbolic claims.

 

Can it get in at the Oscars over Mario? Sure, it’s Pixar after all. If Wish delivers though, Elemental’s chances at a nom go way down. It’s nowhere near acclaimed or successful enough to be a lock if Disney is already occupying a slot. 

the only pixar original to not get nominated for the oscars in their entire history is good dinosaur and that already had inside out in its year so lot less need to have a double pixar nom. idk what you expect.

 

audience scores on imdb as an academy nomination metric are worthless. elemental is getting in on pixar's pedigree alone. illumination films have been big box office hits since forever and yet how many nominations have they gotten? 1. 1 in their entire filmography and it was a decade ago.

 

they are that studio that makes mediocre films and mario hasn't changed that at all.

 

I get that you want to stan on your film but get SERIOUS, if the academy was to pick between a pixar original and an illumination franchise film they wouldn't even need to read the titles.

 

even moreso a pixar original with themes the academy cares about like immigration and racism. yeah the academy cares very little about this category but not to this degree man.

Edited September 21, 2023 by JustLurking

[ThomasNicole]

4 hours ago, MovieMan89 said:

Elementals audience scores on the major audience metric sites like IMDB and Letterboxd are very far from “beloved” level, it was highly unlikely to be profitable from theatrical since the DOM gross was far too low against the budget, and I’ll give you the huge start on streaming but how it holds is key to being a streaming phenomenon. Just for these hyperbolic claims.

 

Can it get in at the Oscars over Mario? Sure, it’s Pixar after all. If Wish delivers though, Elemental’s chances at a nom go way down. It’s nowhere near acclaimed or successful enough to be a lock if Disney is already occupying a slot. 

I remember we discussed a lot about Elemental so i won’t enter in a huge discussion again because i don’t really have anything against you personally. Just clarifying, not every movie the GP loves have super high scores on Letterboxd, for example i think Mario is a beloved movie from audiences and it have the same score on Letterboxd. It’s just my perception of things, the GP also don’t care or dislikes a lot of movies with excellent grades on these platforms.
 

And i quoted Pixar CEO, he said it’s profitable from theatrical revenues alone and since he’s the one with access to things like actual spent on production / marketing and the shares they get from every country, I’ll use as official. 
 

But that wasn’t really my point, the point is that the movie will be remembered, it’s clearly not in path to be forgotten when awards races start. 
 

The animated category have a history of not really nominee every huge movie just because, so i bet Mario won’t be there simply because it’s perceived in a way an original Pixar movie it’s not, even if it’s not one of their best. 
 

ATSV and How Do You Live seems like the sure bets to me and i actually can see both ended up sneaking in the Best Picture category if the studios push hard enough. I do think Wish will get there, i would be shocked if Disney animation screwed their movie for the 100th anniversary. 
 

Then the 2 empty slots it will depends on other factors. Nimona is a great movie that sadly didn’t have a big impression with audiences, so Netflix will probably focus on Chicken Run 2 that will premiere at the BFI festival and seems to be a strong movie.
 

There are some international movies but it’s unlikely they would nominee 2 foreign pictures, so Elemental would get there as the 5th option that really have no chance to win but it’s there because it’s from Pixar. 

[Issac Newton]

Korea - 25.10.2023