JOKER OS THREAD // 738.5M OS // 1.074B WW

[Aristis]

1 hour ago, Chucky said:

But it is the Joker who is the most iconic comic book villain of all time so it's not unexpected is it

BvS showed the clash of the (arguably) two biggest Superheros of all time, yet it did just $870M (you can look at SSquad too). This argument of saying "the charakter is well known though" is therefore total nonsense...

Additionally there are all those points made by many before and maybe many after: R-rated, arthousy/charakter study, not much action...

 

I won't say it's the most impressive run of the year (which it may be), the decade (which it could be too) or of all time (which it clearly isn't) though.

[Chucky]

8 minutes ago, Aristis said:

BvS showed the clash of the (arguably) two biggest Superheros of all time, yet it did just $870M (you can look at SSquad too). This argument of saying "the charakter is well known though" is therefore total nonsense...

Additionally there are all those points made by many before and maybe many after: R-rated, arthousy/charakter study, not much action...

 

I won't say it's the most impressive run of the year (which it may be), the decade (which it could be too) or of all time (which it clearly isn't) though.

BvS made over 850m despite coming off a disliked MOS and despite having abysmal reviews and WOM. Imagine how easily it would have cleared 1b if it was actually decent and had no MoS stigma. Jokers presence in the SS trailer made the film open as high as it did so no I'm sorry but a character being 'well known' is an understatement for the Joker, he is the darth Vader of comic book movies and saying this iconic character currently in the biggest genre right now isnt enough to sell a movie is total nonsense, every movie you've mentioned including Joker has just proven my point.

 

TDK is considered the greatest comic book movie of all time, made 1b when it was hard to make 1b, didnt have China to help nor did it have 3d and it came out over 10 years ago. Guess what? There wasn't much action in that either compared to most CBM's today. 

 

The problem with many people here is you assume the general audience will dismiss a brand just because it doesnt have explosions in its marketing, you were wrong, and now you are still trying to justify how you wasnt wrong and this movie was just an anomaly. Just accept you lot made a bad call

[peludo]

22 minutes ago, john2000 said:

i dont understand the point of this discussion, when this is clearly all subjective, we will agree all of us, about joker box office, that its impressive, but best run of the decade, is something very very very objective

To be the biggest does not necesarily mean to be the best or the most shocking (I guess you mean Endgame). Of course, and as you well say, this is subjective.

 

IMHO, what was absolutely incredible, out of this world, the event of box office of the decade and what makes Endgame so special was its OW, the absurd hype. That was objectively magical and what made real the chance to beat Avatar. But after OW, my feeling is that the run was "normal" and predictable with quite normal multipliers.

 

But for me (and it is only my opinion), the fact that a R-rated drama can make $1.06-$1.07 billion is more shocking and unexpected than a 22nd film and culmination of the biggest saga can beat Avatar by a hair. But I insist, it is only my opinion.

[Chucky]

41 minutes ago, peludo said:

Endgame was already coming from a $2.05b previous film with an enormous cliffhanger. It is the culmination of a 11 years saga. I will not say it is not impressive. It has beaten the WW record, something that many thought that just Avatar 2 could do. Of course it is impressive. But it was expected that it would be huge.

 

But the result of Joker, being a dark, depressing and R-rated drama, without visual effects, without China, without 3D, not connected with any other film, with low budget and made by a director about who many had many doubts is absolutely unexpected. We can debate about how much all of us thought it would do before the release, but many were thinking about 500-600 million, not doubling it and becoming a bigger grosser than any Batman film or any DC film excluding China. Even becoming the biggest SH film ever in many countries over Endgame.

 

I will not say it is the run of the decade. Both Skyfall and BR can say something. But Joker can compete with both of them. James Bond or Freddie Mercury/Queen are as well known as Joker, or maybe more better known characters. And I think Joker can compete with Endgame about being the run of the year for sure.

Endgame made 100m more than the previous opening weekend record holder. If anyone here says they saw that coming they are liars. Nothing Joker did was as impressive as that feat alone. And again, stop assuming audiences need visual effects to turn up to comic book movies, they don't, they prefer good characters which is something this film did right. If visual effects was so important then BVS/justice league or even MOS would have been just fine.

 

People bring up how apparently most only predicted 500-600m but my friends dont even follows the box office but we all knew Joker would be a billion dollar grosser if it was actually decent. The biggest shocker for me is how The Hangover director didn't fuck it up.

[peludo]

8 minutes ago, Chucky said:

BvS made over 850m despite coming off a disliked MOS and despite having abysmal reviews and WOM. Imagine how easily it would have cleared 1b if it was actually decent and had no MoS stigma. Jokers presence in the SS trailer made the film open as high as it did so no I'm sorry but a character being 'well known' is an understatement for the Joker, he is the darth Vader of comic book movies and saying this iconic character currently in the biggest genre right now isnt enough to sell a movie is total nonsense, every movie you've mentioned including Joker has just proven my point.

 

TDK is considered the greatest comic book movie of all time, made 1b when it was hard to make 1b, didnt have China to help nor did it have 3d and it came out over 10 years ago. Guess what? There wasn't much action in that either compared to most CBM's today. 

 

The problem with many people here is you assume the general audience will dismiss a brand just because it doesnt have explosions in its marketing, you were wrong, and now you are still trying to justify how you wasnt wrong and this movie was just an anomaly. Just accept you lot made a bad call

With that premise, Joker being an universal character (I agree with that) and if people were already sold by the marketing, why Joker has opened DOM lower than, for example, Iron Man in 2008, a way less known character by then, when MCU did not exist, or barely over another villain like Venom last year (way less known too), and not instead with, let's say, 150-170 million?

 

And with a 250m WW opening, which was great, and with normal drops for a CBM, it should have ended with 700-750 million, not over 1.05b.

[peludo]

17 minutes ago, Chucky said:

Endgame made 100m more than the previous opening weekend record holder. If anyone here says they saw that coming they are liars. Nothing Joker did was as impressive as that feat alone. And again, stop assuming audiences need visual effects to turn up to comic book movies, they don't, they prefer good characters which is something this film did right. If visual effects was so important then BVS/justice league or even MOS would have been just fine.

 

People bring up how apparently most only predicted 500-600m but my friends dont even follows the box office but we all knew Joker would be a billion dollar grosser if it was actually decent. The biggest shocker for me is how The Hangover director didn't fuck it up.

Well, congrats for predicting it, but here just 2 or 3 people were confident about that:

 

Joker 1 billion club

[Chucky]

7 minutes ago, peludo said:

With that premise, Joker being an universal character (I agree with that) and if people were already sold by the marketing, why Joker has opened DOM lower than, for example, Iron Man in 2008, a way less known character by then, when MCU did not exist, or barely over another villain like Venom last year (way less known too), and not instead with, let's say, 150-170 million?

 

And with a 250m WW opening, which was great, and with normal drops for a CBM, it should have ended with 700-750 million, not over 1.05b.

Id put that down to the damage the DC brand has had over the last 5 or so years. With the Joker people were a bit hesitant so they waited for WOM which has been incredible. The audience was always there for it, they were just waiting for the go ahead which explains the better than usual legs. Same thing happened to Wonder Woman, looked shit coming from a damage brand but it surprised people so legs were great.

 

Iron man had fantastic trailers, a new premise followed by brilliant reviews before release. It felt like a fresh  blockbuster. The fact the joker only had the titles character as a selling point yet still opened so close just shows the power an iconic character like Joker has. Take away DC's last 5 years worth if movies and I'm sure Joker would have opened closer to that range 

[Xftg123]

@Chucky Did you forget about Aquaman?

 

People were expecting that movie to flop or just do decent business. The superhero itself is referred to as a joke character, and people didn't expect it to go into the billion dollar range after Justice League happened, BvS didn't do too hot domestically, and Suicide Squad's mixed reception. The movie blew past expectations, and it beat out The Dark Knight. I don't think anyone was expecting Aquaman to be THAT big.

 

Plus, DC's been slowly getting back on track. Ever since Hamada got added in, they have their 2nd billion dollar grosser this year, Shazam! underperformed but managed to breakeven, and Aquaman crossed the billion dollar mark last year.

 

 

[John Marston]

over 700m for Joker is insanity. With China it might have made 900m or close to it.

[Chucky]

11 minutes ago, Xftg123 said:

@Chucky Did you forget about Aquaman?

 

People were expecting that movie to flop or just do decent business. The superhero itself is referred to as a joke character, and people didn't expect it to go into the billion dollar range after Justice League happened, BvS didn't do too hot domestically, and Suicide Squad's mixed reception. The movie blew past expectations, and it beat out The Dark Knight. I don't think anyone was expecting Aquaman to be THAT big.

 

Plus, DC's been slowly getting back on track. Ever since Hamada got added in, they have their 2nd billion dollar grosser this year, Shazam! underperformed but managed to breakeven, and Aquaman crossed the billion dollar mark last year.

 

 

Aquaman was a big surprise but It did benefit from a christmas release and a 300m gross from china alone. I guess having James Wan direct it brought in the chinese audience. 

[MrGlass2]

21 minutes ago, Chucky said:

Aquaman was a big surprise but It did benefit from a christmas release and a 300m gross from china alone. I guess having James Wan direct it brought in the chinese audience. 

Those takes keep getting worse.

[Chucky]

19 minutes ago, MrGlass2 said:

Those takes keep getting worse.

I'm assuming your lack of any contribution just highlights that I simply know more than you. If you dont have a point, dont post.

[Valonqar]

48 minutes ago, John Marston said:

over 700m for Joker is insanity. With China it might have made 900m or close to it.

China was likely going to be a non-factor tbh. They wouldn't release R version and PG-13 verison wouldn't be it. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Valonqar

[NamakFiskKa]

Come at this when another Rated R movie cracks a billion with/without China

[Valonqar]

Now that it finally happened, it will happen again soon.  For example, this success could encourage Marvel to make R rated Blade. That has a shot to be another R billie. 

 

There's 6 year rule for second milestone. Titanic broke 1 billie and ROTK 6 years later. After that, movies broke the milestone more frequently. Avatar broke 2 billie and TFA did it 6 years too. After that, movies did it more frequently. So within 6 years or earlier, another R should cross the line.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Valonqar

[Chucky]

10 minutes ago, NamakFiskKa said:

Come at this when another Rated R movie cracks a billion with/without China

The Matrix reloaded had a more impressive run IMO given its 18 years old. I wonder what Judement Day's success would be equal to today. 400m WW back then was huge

Edited November 18, 2019 by Chucky

[lorddemaxus]

4 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

Now that it finally happened, it will happen again sooner than expected.  For example, this success could encourage Marvel to make R rated Blade. That has a shot to be another R billie. 

Not really. Blade probably won't translate well to foreign audiences and it's not like the first three films were huge hits. Deadpool 3 and Matrix 4 have much better chance at billion.

Edited November 18, 2019 by lorddemaxus

[Chucky]

5 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

Now that it finally happened, it will happen again sooner than expected.  For example, this success could encourage Marvel to make R rated Blade. That has a shot to be another R billie. 

Was blade ever really that popular though?

[Aristis]

1 hour ago, Chucky said:

BvS made over 850m despite coming off a disliked MOS and despite having abysmal reviews and WOM. Imagine how easily it would have cleared 1b if it was actually decent and had no MoS stigma. Jokers presence in the SS trailer made the film open as high as it did so no I'm sorry but a character being 'well known' is an understatement for the Joker, he is the darth Vader of comic book movies and saying this iconic character currently in the biggest genre right now isnt enough to sell a movie is total nonsense, every movie you've mentioned including Joker has just proven my point.

 

TDK is considered the greatest comic book movie of all time, made 1b when it was hard to make 1b, didnt have China to help nor did it have 3d and it came out over 10 years ago. Guess what? There wasn't much action in that either compared to most CBM's today. 

 

The problem with many people here is you assume the general audience will dismiss a brand just because it doesnt have explosions in its marketing, you were wrong, and now you are still trying to justify how you wasnt wrong and this movie was just an anomaly. Just accept you lot made a bad call

 

If you think audiences aren't awaiting effects, explosions and stuff look again into the 1B+ grossers. Of course it's not just about that and a movie can gross less than that even than. But please tell me how many of the 1B+ movies have this few action scenes - I mean, it's just Jokers 3rd part really. The movie is a charakter study, a Joker biopic and therefore very different even from the Nolan Batman Trilogy.

1 hour ago, Chucky said:

Endgame made 100m more than the previous opening weekend record holder. If anyone here says they saw that coming they are liars. Nothing Joker did was as impressive as that feat alone. And again, stop assuming audiences need visual effects to turn up to comic book movies, they don't, they prefer good characters which is something this film did right. If visual effects was so important then BVS/justice league or even MOS would have been just fine.

 

People bring up how apparently most only predicted 500-600m but my friends dont even follows the box office but we all knew Joker would be a billion dollar grosser if it was actually decent. The biggest shocker for me is how The Hangover director didn't fuck it up.

To the last part of the first post and this one: Sometimes it's better to not know much about BO to make a better prediction as you don't know the natural borders (and there are many for Joker). It's like the prediction of Endgame - in Germany it blew past most predictions of German BO followers just because we know it and know what is normal. I could have said "Endgame makes $3B WW". That doesn't really mean I'm a great analyst and all others are bad. Some predictions are just lucky cause sometimes BO is unpredictable and that is what makes following it great.

[Valonqar]

4 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

Not really. Blade probably won't translate well to foreign audiences and it's not like the first three films were huge hits. Deadpool 3 and Matrix 4 have much better chance at billion.

I think that deadpool is done. second didn't increase and unless they put Wolverine in it I don't know what could regain interest and expand fan base.

 

Matrix 4 could go either way. Curiosity will be there and if previews give something never seen before, it has a shot.

 

@Chucky Marvel brand makes everything popular. He is more known now than many Marvel characters were when they got their movie debuts. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Valonqar