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Eric Atreides

Spider-Man: No Way Home | December 17 2021?! | Fasten Your Seltbelts, It's Gonna Be a Bumpy Night

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21 hours ago, YourMother the Edgelord said:

What I meant to say is Spider-Man can develop in the course of movies but it’s a problem he barely gets any substantial development over the 5 movies in he’s in. 
 

Harry Potter has had their characters develop for each of the movies as arcs change and characters learn as well as the rest of the MCU characters, from Guardians 1 to 2, Rocket developed past his self destructive tendencies for relationships and learns to be better with teamwork in IW and Endgame, where as Peter has gone through the same arc of “Can I live up to Iron Man” through five movies nor does he really learn. 
 

But let’s agree to disagree.

Peter was a bit player in 3 of those films, so it doesn't make sense to expect a character arc from them. And his character arc between Homecoming and FFH seems rather clear to me.

 

I also feel that "people eat what they're fed" and other such statements in this thread are just a condescending way to deny the fact that audiences have different preferences than what people on here apparently think they should. 

Edited by Menor
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7 minutes ago, Menor said:

 

I also feel that "people eat what they're fed" and other such statements in this thread are just a condescending way to deny the fact that audiences have different preferences than what people on here apparently think they should. 

I almost wrote a long response to that very quote, but decided to just walk away 😂

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18 minutes ago, Menor said:

I also feel that "people eat what they're fed" and other such statements in this thread are just a condescending way to deny the fact that audiences have different preferences than what people on here apparently think they should. 

It's funny that no one bats an eye when people say the same thing about the Fast and Furious or Transformers movies but when it comes to this franchise, it's condescending lol. I really don't care if I was being condescending.

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1 minute ago, lorddemaxus said:

It's funny that no one bats an eye when people say the same thing about the Fast and Furious or Transformers movies but when it comes to this franchise, it's condescending lol. I really don't care if I was being condescending.

It's condescending no matter what movie/franchise you say it about -- but, as you well know, the point that @WandaLegion was making was about why the MCU's success has been much greater than other franchises. 

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Just now, Menor said:

It's condescending no matter what movie/franchise you say it about -- but, as you well know, the point that @WandaLegion was making was about why the MCU's success has been much greater than other franchises. 

I don't think the success of the franchise has much to do with deep or complicated writing. And that point was brought up to undermine the criticism @YourMother the Edgelord and I were talking about. Like, sure most people love these movies (and even I quite like some of them) but that doesn't mean that every decicision the MCU had made is what led to their mass audience appeal.

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8 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

I don't think the success of the franchise has much to do with deep or complicated writing.

Well, no. I mean I am a huge fan but even I wouldn’t claim this. I was responding narrowly to the issue of single movie arcs vs many movie arcs — the MCU is just about the only cinematic game in town providing people with a lot of the latter, and it connects with people. Quality of writing is an orthogonal issue.

Edited by WandaLegion
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I actually think Marvel Studios do these things for making multi-universe stuff before DC with their Flash. They introduced the concept years ago but have not really used it. They probably don't want DC to be the first one who make huge benefits from it. It's not the first time Marvel Studios adjust their creative plan with the pressure from DC. Civil War could happen in 2016 because of the release situation between Batman v Superman & untitled Marvel movie. For whatever reason, Captain Marvel didn't come before Wonder Woman. CM did higher in box office, but the result definitely didn't hit their goal since we knew they didn't want directors of first one be back. 

 

I'm glad Marvel Studios still take DC serious with that kind of achievement. They know they can't be self-important. But I also want a MCU Spidy movie without any other superhero so I can see a totally friendly neighborhood movie.

Edited by Gavin Feng
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Just now, WandaLegion said:

Well, no. I mean I am a huge fan but even I wouldn’t claim this. I was responding narrowly to the issue of single movie arcs vs many movie arcs — the MCU is just about the only cinematic game in town providing people with a lot of the latter, and it connects with people. Quality of writing is an orthogonal issue.

And no one was saying they can't do many movie arcs. Just that stretching out a one-movie arc to 9 films or whatever feels lazy. That's what I meant be having arcs within one film. Same reason why I hate when people say "his arc isn't over yet" when a character in a franchise stays stagnant as a character for an entire film. 

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1 hour ago, WandaLegion said:

Well, no. I mean I am a huge fan but even I wouldn’t claim this. I was responding narrowly to the issue of single movie arcs vs many movie arcs — the MCU is just about the only cinematic game in town providing people with a lot of the latter, and it connects with people. Quality of writing is an orthogonal issue.

And that’s a fair point. I do hope that Holland’s arc develops more as these films go on, despite his very stagnant start. I mean Woody was an unlikeable character in the majority in the first Toy Story and developed greatly over the course of movies, and while his growth is good, it still doesn’t excuse his start.

 

But as it stands now, I don’t like the idea the way this Spider Man is going because it is the polar opposite of who Spider-Man is (less selfreliant, billionaire stanning, rarely deals with struggles, arguably gentrified) and from the looks of it, it seems like they want Peter (despite what FFH tried to say) as the next Iron Man of the MCU and to me that that doesn’t give me much hope in his arc will improve. It’s also because I absorbed Spider-Man media like a sponge throughout my childhood. 


However, his arc can change for the better. I mean, I got to represent best anime My Hero Academia, Bakugo was and arguably still is an awful 2 dimensional character and human being but he had strong character growth over the course of the manga and anime, in that he learns from his mistakes while still dealing with consequences from his action. Same with Deku who is arguably a lot like Holland Spider-Man but with more struggles in life but he grew to become his own hero though Deku arguably had more development over seasons. The MCU turned an abusive character like Yondu into someone sympathetic in the sequel. I don’t know what the future holds for the character of Holland’s Spider-Man but also know that he has resonated with a lot of people be that the MCU connection or Holland’s performance. Anyways let’s stop this 3 page conversation cause it’s taking up space.

Edited by YourMother the Edgelord
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3 hours ago, Gavin Feng said:

I actually think Marvel Studios do

So you're telling me that Marvel "copies" DC.
The MCU who has a clear and defined strategy found that DC universe will make a flashpoint movie and said "let's do a similar thing too?"
I do not believe

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1 hour ago, fabiopazzo2 said:

So you're telling me that Marvel "copies" DC.
The MCU who has a clear and defined strategy found that DC universe will make a flashpoint movie and said "let's do a similar thing too?"
I do not believe

That's simplifying what Gavin Feng was saying. The Russos themselves have gone on record saying Feige wanted to do Civil War because DC was doing BvS. So it's apparent his strategy can be recalibrated (like all good strategies should be) as and when factors like market competitors and evolving consumer tastes demand it. 

 

Feige is notorious for his (understandable) desire to be THE trendsetter in the ever evolving superhero movie landscape. He has said he wished Marvel had been the first to make a successful female superhero movie before Wonder Woman (to his credit, he genuinely did seem to have been pushing for Captain Marvel years before it actually came out, but Ike Perlmutter's sexism was what prevented such a film from releasing during the first two phases of the MCU). I feel Eternals by Chloe Zhao is also a response to DC announcing New Gods directed by Ava DuVernay which actually seems to be working in Marvel's favor as NG got delayed. 

 

Also, Lord and Miller said they originally wanted to include Maguire/Garfield/Holland in Into the Spider-Verse but Sony told them it was too early to do that. When they heard what DC was planning with The Flash, it may have served as an impetus to finally do their own multiverse with Spider-Man 3.

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9 hours ago, fabiopazzo2 said:

So you're telling me that Marvel "copies" DC.
The MCU who has a clear and defined strategy found that DC universe will make a flashpoint movie and said "let's do a similar thing too?"
I do not believe

depend on how you define copies.

 

MCU have been leading pop film culture since the first Avengers movie. The last thing they want to see is other people steal their show. So they made Civil War, which was immediately behind Batman v Superman. They made Black Panther, a territory where other studios didn't really go. Sony made Spider-Verse and got incredible responses. Marvel Studios definitely want to be the one who make the first live-action multi-universe superhero movie. The Flash is scheduled to launch in Nov 2022. Marvel will show audience the storyline before that time.

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15 hours ago, Spidey Freak said:

That's simplifying what Gavin Feng was saying. The Russos themselves have gone on record saying Feige wanted to do Civil War because DC was doing BvS. So it's apparent his strategy can be recalibrated (like all good strategies should be) as and when factors like market competitors and evolving consumer tastes demand it. 

 

Feige is notorious for his (understandable) desire to be THE trendsetter in the ever evolving superhero movie landscape. He has said he wished Marvel had been the first to make a successful female superhero movie before Wonder Woman (to his credit, he genuinely did seem to have been pushing for Captain Marvel years before it actually came out, but Ike Perlmutter's sexism was what prevented such a film from releasing during the first two phases of the MCU). I feel Eternals by Chloe Zhao is also a response to DC announcing New Gods directed by Ava DuVernay which actually seems to be working in Marvel's favor as NG got delayed. 

 

Also, Lord and Miller said they originally wanted to include Maguire/Garfield/Holland in Into the Spider-Verse but Sony told them it was too early to do that. When they heard what DC was planning with The Flash, it may have served as an impetus to finally do their own multiverse with Spider-Man 3.

 

WB making an Aquaman movie before Namor probaly still gives Mr Feige nightmares....

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DCEU was created only after the massive success of The Avengers though.  If anything they're rushing the whole multiverse thing with the first Flash movie without developing his character at all. Doctor Strange(2016) acknowledged the existence of multiverse and Avengers Endgame built up on it. Everyone knows WandaVision is connected to Sam Raimi's Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.

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13 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

I don't see how people hear they're doing Spider-Verse and think it's copying The Flash movie coming late 2022 and not...the animated Spider-Verse movie Sony already made.

A certain group of Dc fans want to feel important after Marvel has so thoroughly dominated pop culture and left dc struggling to keep pace

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On 10/10/2020 at 7:38 PM, Count Eric said:

You know, I'm so excited that we'll inevitably argue about this stuff for two more years. It's gonna be a blast and nobody will be tired of this whatsoever :D

Looking at the argument happening right now, our argument was probably actually more exciting than the superhero franchise dick measuring contest that'll go on forever. 

Edited by lorddemaxus
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Moderation

 

This Fanboy Wars wanking isn’t funny anymore. Reminder that you aren’t obligated to do Marvel vs. DC nonsense. So...don’t do it. Ever!

 

5 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

Looking at the argument happening right now, our argument was probably actually more exciting than the superhero franchise dick measuring contest that'll go on forever. 

Cool. It’s still annoying

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