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Spider-Man: No Way Home | December 17 2021 | JAMIE FOXX IS ELECTRO

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It looks like Tom Holland's Spidey never got to be his own man in any of his MCU films, which is unfortunate.  I think they completely botched the character, but was hoping this could be his own solo movie this time around.  A return of Tobey and Andrew though is 10x better, so unfortunately Tom gets the short end of the stick again. 

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me waiting for topher grace Venom to return

 

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We'll see about Tobey but wouldn't be at all surprised if they got Kirsten Dunst back, especially now that she's available (after her show just became the latest COVID-related cancellation).

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If theaters are back to normalcy when this releases, it can easily gross $1.2B-$1.3B. Sony/Marvel are making this an event movie.

Edited by Saul Goodman
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8 hours ago, Knights of Ren said:

It looks like Tom Holland's Spidey never got to be his own man in any of his MCU films, which is unfortunate.  I think they completely botched the character, but was hoping this could be his own solo movie this time around.  A return of Tobey and Andrew though is 10x better, so unfortunately Tom gets the short end of the stick again. 

Sony probably hopes to milk 3 trilogies out of him (the current high school era, then a college era and then an adult era) so there are still six movies left after this one.

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6 hours ago, filmlover said:

We'll see about Tobey but wouldn't be at all surprised if they got Kirsten Dunst back, especially now that she's available (after her show just became the latest COVID-related cancellation).

I want her back only if she is super unlikeable and keeps claiming that her Peter Parker and her MJ are the best versions in the multiverse "coz they came first".

 

Kirsten Dunst MJ: The multiverse has a black MJ??!

 

Zendaya MJ: The multiverse has a Karen MJ? 😒

Edited by Spidey Freak
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5 hours ago, Spidey Freak said:

Sony probably hopes to milk 3 trilogies out of him (the current high school era, then a college era and then an adult era) so there are still six movies left after this one.

Call me a skeptic, but I seriously doubt Holland is getting another six movies after this. How old would he even be by the end of that?

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5 hours ago, Spidey Freak said:

I want her back only if she is super unlikeable and keeps claiming that her Peter Parker and her MJ are the best versions in the multiverse "coz they came first".

 

 

Kirsten and Zendaya MJ aren't even the same character. One is Mary Jane Watson the other is Michelle Jones. They aren't like 3 Peter Parkers. They are not versions but 2 different characters altogether. 

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12 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

Call me a skeptic, but I seriously doubt Holland is getting another six movies after this. How old would he even be by the end of that?

Like 37ish, depending on timelines. The character would probably be 30 or something though, so it wouldn’t be a huge gap.   
 

I’m skeptical of the trilogy of trilogies thing, but actor age is hardly the biggest obstacle.

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1 hour ago, SpiderByte said:

How some people in here sound

 

The problem a lot of people have is that they don’t like how reliant the MCU Spider-Man is on other Marvel heroes. Part of the reason Spider-Man became so popular to begin with was because he was a young hero who often had to do things on his own. Sure, he interacted with other Marvel heroes plenty of times, but he was generally on his own, and had to handle his problems by himself. He wasn’t even a proper Avenger for the longest time. 
 

In comparison, the MCU version of Peter Parker has had the support of Stark Industries and S.H.I.E.L.D. Generally speaking, he seems to have it pretty easy compared to the traditional depictions of the character. All things considered, he seems like a fairly well adjusted kid who has everything going for him. You even get the impression that Tony Stark is a more important figure in his life than Uncle Ben. 

Edited by WittyUsername
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9 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

How some people in here sound

 

Black Widow’s story and character isn’t entirely revolved around Cap, and can hold her own by herself whether it was SHIELD business, Red Room stuff or the fact she was running the damn Avengers during the snap.
 

Peter is useless without a father figure be in Tony, Mysterio, etc., to guide him inside the MCU, sure he’s taken out villains by himself, but these moments don’t feel earned when he’s repeat the same arc over and over.  Spider-Man PS4, Peter has a team but he was the one in charge, and in terms of teens to have the mantle, Miles from Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse is a lot like Peter but his arc feels earned because it was not only more dramatically compelling but he worked hard even though it was a team effort, he still pulled his weight. 

 

Look just because you don’t like the criticism doesn’t mean it’s not justified for some.

Edited by YourMother the Edgelord
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I think using two Sony Spidey films to tie in with the MCU/Avengers and the third one being a Sony multiverse film is more interesting than MJ (Kirsten Dunst) getting kidnapped three movies in a row during the Raimi trilogy.

 

The MCU Spidey may not be as popular as Tobey Maguire's Spider-man but at least they're not a carbon copy of the Raimi films or as despised as the ASM series. They both have their own identity and are also successful. 

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3 hours ago, grey ghost said:

I think using two Sony Spidey films to tie in with the MCU/Avengers and the third one being a Sony multiverse film is more interesting than MJ (Kirsten Dunst) getting kidnapped three movies in a row during the Raimi trilogy.

 

The MCU Spidey may not be as popular as Tobey Maguire's Spider-man but at least they're not a carbon copy of the Raimi films or as despised as the ASM series. They both have their own identity and are also successful. 

To be fair, every Spider-Man film has lacked a strong female protagonist. Spider Gwen is probably the best but she doesn’t get much in screentime, Gwen Stacy has pretty good chemistry with Garfield and MJ is the same with Holland, they don’t do much but are solid. Mary Jane is a fair point but for the first two movies she was solid.
 

I’m not denying the Holland MCU Spider-Man isn’t successful or loved. Holland is much more charismatic in the team up films than his solo films is the problem while simultaneously he’s probably the least troubled Spider-Man. People remember the MCU Spidey not cause of his arc but the team ups. 
 

Sure Avenger team ups and multiverse shenanigans haven’t been done before and can be fun, they’re also ironically the most safe route to go with the franchise. This is the third time we’ve had an incarnation of Peter Parker in 15 years. I understand going a different route and all but I feel without the baggage or at least dig deeper into the teen comedy, it feels more like a bare understanding from 35 year olds, you don’t have an interesting Spider-Man character, you have interesting Spider-Man scenes or a fun film but not a good Spider-Man movie. Small and fun isn’t a problem for other MCU film, Ant Man and The Wasp is in my top 10 MCU and probably one of my more favorite modern blockbusters.


If you want a Spider-Man without as much baggage and want to develop. Wouldn’t it make sense and potentially more money, to add Miles Morales, an African American teen who carries a lot of same traits as the MCU Peter in a cinematic universe that lacks PoC as main leads, while still having an older Peter Parker as Spider-Man (which still has yet to be done in film) in the background, tutoring him?
 

The Raimi films had their own fun yet cheesy feel while still giving great drama, the Webb films while failure at first tried to do something different which I repsect, the Ramsey/Rodman/Perschutti film felt more earnest in identity and drama for an animated family film while still bringing great action and visuals.
 

What ironic is the MCU Spider-Man that has been given the most, when it actually makes him feel the less unique. Spider-Man (at least Peter Parker) has always been Nightwing, he’s a young hero, has a clear mentor role and plagued with heartache and strife but is self reliant, can most definitely have fun, he does his own work while occasionally accepting help from others. Spider-Man isn’t Robin who relies on his mentor to succeed in life. 
 

As a fan of the MCU, the new Spider-Man films feel like a missed opportunity for another hero such as say Kamala Khan, Miles Morales, the kid from Iron Man 3 or even Riri Williams or a new character to have the spotlight and grow. As a Spider-Man fan, I’m sad that apart from a few great moments, Peter feels lacking and similar to other teen heroes.

Edited by YourMother the Edgelord
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Nobody gives af about Andrew Garfield.

 

"MTV Movie Award Best Kisser Winner Tobey McGuire" would play perfectly in the growing early 2000s nostalgia.

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3 hours ago, grey ghost said:

I think using two Sony Spidey films to tie in with the MCU/Avengers and the third one being a Sony multiverse film is more interesting than MJ (Kirsten Dunst) getting kidnapped three movies in a row during the Raimi trilogy.

Even if we go with your extremely reductionist take on the Raimi movies, yeah I'd say MJ getting kidnapped 3 times is more interesting.

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32 minutes ago, YourMother the Edgelord said:

To be fair, every Spider-Man film has lacked a strong female protagonist. Spider Gwen is probably the best but she doesn’t get much in screentime, Gwen Stacy has pretty good chemistry with Garfield and MJ is the same with Holland, they don’t do much but are solid. Mary Jane is a fair point but for the first two movies she was solid.
 

I’m not denying the Holland MCU Spider-Man isn’t successful or loved. Holland is much more charismatic in the team up films than his solo films is the problem while simultaneously he’s probably the least troubled Spider-Man. People remember the MCU Spidey not cause of his arc but the team ups. 
 

Sure Avenger team ups and multiverse shenanigans haven’t been done before and can be fun, they’re also ironically the most safe route to go with the franchise. This is the third time we’ve had an incarnation of Peter Parker in 15 years. I understand going a different route and all but I feel without the baggage or at least dig deeper into the teen comedy, it feels more like a bare understanding from 35 year olds, you don’t have an interesting Spider-Man character, you have interesting Spider-Man scenes or a fun film but not a good Spider-Man movie. Small and fun isn’t a problem for other MCU film, Ant Man and The Wasp is in my top 10 MCU and probably one of my more favorite modern blockbusters.


If you want a Spider-Man without as much baggage and want to develop. Wouldn’t it make sense and potentially more money, to add Miles Morales, an African American teen who carries a lot of same traits as the MCU Peter in a cinematic universe that lacks PoC as main leads, while still having an older Peter Parker as Spider-Man (which still has yet to be done in film) in the background, tutoring him?
 

The Raimi films had their own fun yet cheesy feel while still giving great drama, the Webb films while failure at first tried to do something different which I repsect, the Ramsey/Rodman/Perschutti film felt more earnest in identity and drama for an animated family film while still bringing great action and visuals.
 

What ironic is the MCU Spider-Man that has been given the most, when it actually makes him feel the less unique. Spider-Man (at least Peter Parker) has always been Nightwing, he’s a young hero, has a clear mentor role and plagued with heartache and strife but is self reliant, can most definitely have fun, he does his own work while occasionally accepting help from others. Spider-Man isn’t Robin who relies on his mentor to succeed in life. 
 

As a fan of the MCU, the new Spider-Man films feel like a missed opportunity for another hero such as say Kamala Khan, Miles Morales, the kid from Iron Man 3 or even Riri Williams or a new character to have the spotlight and grow. As a Spider-Man fan, I’m sad that apart from a few great moments, Peter feels lacking and similar to other teen heroes.

 

But, it's mirroring Peter's arc in more recent comic history...I mean, in Amazing Spider-man, in the last few years, he was given a PhD (long story), he created an "Apple-level" company and was the CEO, and was "the" guy around the world.  And then he lost it all over the span of a few years...but the comic writer himself said he wanted to see, after 50 years, where Peter would go when he wasn't just the teen you described...so he wrote the young adult/20's adult arc that Peter really should have been able to earn after 50 years.  The last few years were great, and now that he's had it all, lost it all (which involved huge personal sacrifice), and hit rock bottom, they are better.

 

TL/DR - Peter is not a character stuck in limbo.  Even in the comics, he's progressed and regressed and had arcs separate from his cliche'd 60's/70's arcs.  

Edited by TwoMisfits

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19 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

But, it's mirroring Peter's arc in more recent comic history...I mean, in Amazing Spider-man, in the last few years, he was given a PhD (long story), he created an "Apple-level" company and was the CEO, and was "the" guy around the world.  And then he lost it all over the span of a few years...but the comic writer himself said he wanted to see, after 50 years, where Peter would go when he wasn't just the teen you described...so he wrote the young adult/20's adult arc that Peter really should have been able to earn after 50 years.  The last few years were great, and now that he's had it all, lost it all (which involved huge personal sacrifice), and hit rock bottom, they are better.

 

TL/DR - Peter is not a character stuck in limbo.  Even in the comics, he's progressed and regressed and had arcs separate from his cliche'd 60's/70's arcs.  

Then have that in the films, we don’t need Peter as a teen for the millionth time if you don’t got the drama to back it up, which sort of proves my point.

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4 minutes ago, YourMother the Edgelord said:

Then have that in the films, we don’t need Peter as a teen for the millionth time if you don’t got the drama to back it up, which sort of proves my point.

 

They probably want both...Tom Holland was cast as a teen, so you get a teen arc that explains how he could get their one day (Tony's mentoring, Pepper and Happy keeping him around the company, his science trips worldwide, his charitable efforts, etc)...

 

Someone said they'd want 3 trilogies...that storyline would be the last one as Tom hits his 30's and plays the mid-to-late 20 year old...mid-trilogy would be college time...1st is high school with all the mentors...

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