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Eric Bombay

Spider-Man: No Way Home | December 17 2021 | JAMIE FOXX IS ELECTRO

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15 hours ago, Eric Karga said:

 

He's making a joke, here... I think?  This is like "a thing" now on Twitter, right?  Because of all these announcements?

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I just rewatched Homecoming and FFH back-to-back today and FFH is kinda...bad? I really liked it when it came out, and all the Mysterio stuff is still super fun, but the rest is...yikes. It avoids all genuine drama and contrives drama when it's not needed - that 'looking at me' stuff with MJ coming from nowhere because they both like each other but can't get together because the movie isn't over yet....

 

Homecoming is still cute. 

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Yeah, the first time I watched FFH I was able to ignore a lot of the bad stuff (mostly about the plot being very stupid, the villain’s power’s stretching SoD, and the villain motivation being pretty thin) but it really doesn’t hold up with more distance. Bottom quartile MCU.

Edited by WandaLegion
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I rewatched it a few months ago and thought it was just as good as I saw it at premiere. I don't really get most of the complaints other than the thinly motivated villain, but that particular flaw is hardly a rare thing in the MCU. At least Mysterio was much better performed than most other villains. I'd still have it at top 6. I thought the awkward romance was pretty funny and relatable. I don't understand why the plot is considered especially stupid -- Mysterio's plan isn't a genius one, but doesn't seem particularly bad as these kinds of movies go. 

Edited by Menor
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EDITH was just a suspension-of-disbelief breakingly silly McGuffin for me. Tony leaves what amounts to total control over the strongest military force in the world to Peter, with no oversight, minimal instructions, and the ability to send lethal force at a school bus in a misunderstanding or gift it to whoever he feels like in a spur of the moment decision???   
 

When I was watching it I just kept having to repeat to myself “don’t pay attention to how silly this is, don’t pay attention to how silly this is, don’t pay attention to how silly this is” and it was mostly successful, but on further watches I just can’t muster up the energy to overlook it.
 

At least Zendaya got more stuff to do and their relationship was cute. The Berlin illusion sequence also rocks.

Edited by WandaLegion
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9 minutes ago, WandaLegion said:

EDITH was just a suspension-of-disbelief breakingly silly McGuffin for me. Tony leaves what amounts to total control over the strongest military force in the world to Peter, with no oversight, minimal instructions, and the ability to send lethal force at a school bus in a misunderstanding or gift it to whoever he feels like in a spur of the moment decision???   
 

When I was watching it I just kept having to repeat to myself “don’t pay attention to how silly this is, don’t pay attention to how silly this is, don’t pay attention to how silly this is” and it was mostly successful, but on further watches I just can’t muster up the enough to overlook it.    
 

At least Zendaya got more stuff to do and their relationship was cute. The Berlin illusion sequence also rocks.

I think "strongest military force in the world" is an exaggeration -- EDITH's feats don't amount to much next to nukes.

 

I don't find it that implausible, especially since it was Talos doing the actual transference, not Tony. It was definitely an irresponsible decision by Tony, but he's never been a very responsible character (Peter's recruitment in general was extremely irresponsible). I find it plausible that he'd want to leave Peter as much protection as possible due to guilt over IW.  

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The EDITH sub-plot is definitely my biggest issue with FFH but overall definitely felt like it was a step up from Homecoming in every department. I do feel while I enjoy the Spidey films very much there's still some untapped potential with Holland's Spider-Man. Hopefully they get a different creative team after this one (if the deal is renewed).

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This could be Endgame level epic if everyone is truly onboard! Also I was thinking if they pull it off it will provide a plausible link and explanation for Sony doing their own things with Spidey villains (aka Venom, Morbius movies). Before this it was just plain awkward to have those movies, idk.

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11 hours ago, WandaLegion said:

Yeah, the first time I watched FFH I was able to ignore a lot of the bad stuff (mostly about the plot being very stupid, the villain’s power’s stretching SoD, and the villain motivation being pretty thin) but it really doesn’t hold up with more distance. Bottom quartile MCU.

FFH only hold for 30 minutes for me. Immediately after getting out of mall I was like ugh.

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5 minutes ago, charlie Jatinder said:

FFH only hold for 30 minutes for me. Immediately after getting out of mall I was like ugh.

Sony messed up again with Spidey. Only Raimi and Co. got it right. There's something about the new ones that make them seem like they're ripped right from the newer cartoons. Very juvenile and..well cartoony.

Edited by Durant

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In terms of box office, I am more realistic though it's already a very epic thing and being bigger. Many thought Civil War could do what Age of Ultron failed, but it turned out that there were some differences between solo movies and team movies.

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1 hour ago, Durant said:

Sony messed up again with Spidey. Only Raimi and Co. got it right. There's something about the new ones that make them seem like they're ripped right from the newer cartoons. Very juvenile and..well cartoony.

The problem I see is they are making Spider-man just for sake of it. Like MCU other solo films have now a gap of 3 years or so, S-M Sony is pushing for 2 years. 

 

In last year Producer roundtable at THR, it felt like Sony is rubbing it on the face of Disney that they will make S-M film when they want.

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50 minutes ago, Gavin Feng said:

In terms of box office, I am more realistic though it's already a very epic thing and being bigger. Many thought Civil War could do what Age of Ultron failed, but it turned out that there were some differences between solo movies and team movies.

I think that could be due to Ultron mixed response. Civil War & Ultron difference in Asia & Latin America wasn't much. In fact North America was very close as well but drop in Europe was very big.

 

That along with exchange rate.

Edited by charlie Jatinder

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1 hour ago, Durant said:

Sony messed up again with Spidey. Only Raimi and Co. got it right. There's something about the new ones that make them seem like they're ripped right from the newer cartoons. Very juvenile and..well cartoony.

Even with S3? 

Holland's Spiderman films may not be perfect by any means, but he nailed his character better than Tobey & Garfield.

Tobey's Spiderman IMO is overly obsessed with MJ and all his films have him saving her from multiple villain's. 

Garfield's Spiderman films dealt with the romantic angle the best, which is why the death scene created a big impact. Im not a fan of his portrayal yelling out as he swings and way too hyper when in spidey suit.

 

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3 hours ago, Gavin Feng said:

In terms of box office, I am more realistic though it's already a very epic thing and being bigger. Many thought Civil War could do what Age of Ultron failed, but it turned out that there were some differences between solo movies and team movies.

Captain America 3 is only 3rd best performing solo WW though. Black Panther getting 9th Worldwide is not quite avengers level either.   
 

But IM3 had 2nd largest DOM OW, top 5 OS gross, top 5 WW gross. Truly an Avengers level solo performance. If Spider-man 3 performed at a similar level (not saying it will) and theaters are basically back to normal globally by then (not saying they will be) it would be something like 550 DOM, 1.25B OS

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I think people confuse Holland's charm in the role with his 'characterisation'. FFH isn't at all interested in Peter, but Holland's charisma largely covers that.

 

SM3 is obviously overstuffed and convoluted to the extreme, but almost everything relates back to Peter and his story. It's a Spider-Man movie through and through.

 

Watching FFH was honestly surreal. The humour is a complete 180 from Homecoming - the Ned/Betty stuff belongs in another movie. Peter getting photographed in his underwear (!) and then accidentally launching an assault on his classmate (!!) using technology given to him by Tony because plot. All Peter's classmates making quips when they thought they were going to die, the Aunt May issue being completely resolved between movies, Peter conveniently developing feelings for MJ between movies, Peter's arc being completely repackaged from Homecoming. I don't think any of these movies have ever been so afraid to commit to...anything. It's very TDW.

 

Mysterio's silly plot and motivations are the best part. The rest is completely wild, but in a wtf way. 

 

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If the threequel rank improves similar to CA3 from CA2, that would be a WW rank of 4th-5th. Facially implausible. Adjust for ratio of 2nd entry improvement from the first, and a CW style increase would be more like 6th WW. 
 

If it improves similar to Thor3 over Thor2 WW, that’s just 19th. But adjust for ratio of 2nd entry improvement again, a Ragnarok style increase would be more like 14th WW.  
 

14th-6th would be 1.33B on the low end, seems quite reasonable to me as long as reception is fine. That would be just an 18% gross increase from FFH. If there is still lingering covid damage in next Xmas obviously throw all this out the window, but if not, being the big winter holiday release for the year is another benefit.   
 

Appyling a similar technique for DOM exclusive would say around 14th-17th, 480-530. Passes initial sanity test imo, though bit bullish.   
 

For OS, ~22nd-12th for 805-950. So DOM+OS would be 1290-1480 or so, not as crazy on the high end. 

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17 hours ago, WandaLegion said:

Yeah, the first time I watched FFH I was able to ignore a lot of the bad stuff (mostly about the plot being very stupid, the villain’s power’s stretching SoD, and the villain motivation being pretty thin) but it really doesn’t hold up with more distance. Bottom quartile MCU.

Did I miss the FFH bashing? Yeah it’s bottom 5 MCU for me and switching with ASM2 for worst Spider Man. I warmed up more to Homecoming.
 

Apart from piss poor messaging on Stark/Peter’s relationship, the lackluster action and lack of stakes/consequences outside a villain and a mid credit scene, I was disappointed with the drama that Peter deals with outside of Stark, mainly the teen romance stuff and especially the high school stuff. While Zendaya is charming and I think she and Holland have cute chemistry, I’d like more exploration of her character apart from snarky and wanting Peter. Even though it’s been 2 and a 1/2 years since I graduated high school, I also find the high schoolers acting more like middle schoolers, and feels more like a patronizing view of what 40 years old think high school is. The comedy also falls flat which is sad because the writers are normally good outside of this film, namely making episodes I love from American Dad, Community (which I’ve been binging this week and loving) and Ant Man and The Wasp which I really love.

Edited by YourMother the Edgelord
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FFH is pretty easily last in my SM rankings but I knew it as soon as I walked out the theater.  I thought Homecoming was a solid start to it was sad to see the steep decline. 

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I still stand by Holland’s Peter is bland outside of team-ups and in a lot of ways, a white washed version of Miles. I feel if they wanted a younger Spider-Man, they should’ve choose Miles.

Edited by YourMother the Edgelord
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