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Eric Riley

Spider-Man: No Way Home | December 17, 2021 | Rated PG-13 | Nerd Critics + Grace Declare G.O.A.T.

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3 minutes ago, Menor said:

I guess this is why I've never felt the anti-CGI thing because to me a bad-looking effect is the same whether CGI or practical. I never felt any charm from fake-looking practical effects. 

You may not "feel it" consciously but there are plenty of academic/historical/psychoanalytic arguments that all these things in the psychology of moving image media go much deeper than that.  

 

Or...we're just a generation that will die out and be the last to argue about this... 

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7 minutes ago, Menor said:

Also saying digital effects are just "punching buttons on a computer" is really reductive, there's plenty of effort and craftsmanship that goes into them just like practical effects. 

With the right filmmakers/producers having creative control over the vision, there are.  But in many cases, this is not the reality...and we've all seen what happens when visual effects artists run amok...mustached Supermen and all!  😂  (but they may have had valid reason to, in that situation...very much about labor issues that are at the center of our latest industry dilemmas)

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8 minutes ago, Menor said:

And comes with limitations. So it's definitely not always better. If doing something practically is gonna limit the ability to do an action scene that would be really cool, I would argue it shouldn't be done practically. Sacrificing imagination for the sake of "realism" is not a good thing. 

Depends on how it looks. If it looks great, sure. But in most cases I've seen if you can't execute it with good CGI, then just don't do it, scale it back and it's probably gonna look better. Skyscraper is one of the worst examples of CGI-heavy action film. Just compare it to Die Hard, the difference is night and day. The Rock may be one of the hardest working businessmen in the industry, but he's also one of the laziest actors in the industry.

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5 minutes ago, Macleod said:

You may not "feel it" consciously but there are plenty of academic/historical/psychoanalytic arguments that all these things in the psychology of moving image media go much deeper than that.  

 

Or...we're just a generation that will die out and be the last to argue about this... 

I'm not familiar with those arguments, but I don't think this is a case where I'm stating something consciously but feeling something different subconsciously. My preferences in terms of how these types of big action blockbusters look also tend to be very friendly toward CGI-heavy sequences, as long as I feel a sense of immersion and wonder from them. I mean I'm a big fan of the Star Wars prequels, I don't think I would enjoy the action sequences in those as much as I do if I had some innate bias against CGI scenes. 

 

That said, I would be interested in reading these arguments, if you know of any sources. 

5 minutes ago, Macleod said:

With the right filmmakers/producers having creative control over the vision, there are.  But in many cases, this is not the reality...and we've all seen what happens when visual effects artists run amok...mustached Supermen and all!  😂  (but they may have had valid reason to, in that situation...very much about labor issues that are at the center of our latest industry dilemmas)

True, but this applies for any sort of effects, I think (and any part of filmmaking in general, really). 

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3 minutes ago, Firepower said:

Depends on how it looks. If it looks great, sure. But in most cases I've seen if you can't execute it with good CGI, then just don't do it, scale it back and it's probably gonna look better. Skyscraper is one of the worst examples of CGI-heavy action film. Just compare it to Die Hard, the difference is night and day. The Rock may be one of the hardest working businessmen in the industry, but he's also one of the laziest actors in the industry.

Yes. The issue is not CGI itself, but the quality of the CGI. It's on the filmmakers, not the technique. Anyway we are a little off track but my initial comment was relating to the Doc Ock arms in this movie, I thought they looked fine in the trailer so it doesn't seem like an example of bad CGI to me. 

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5 minutes ago, Menor said:

Yes. The issue is not CGI itself, but the quality of the CGI. It's on the filmmakers, not the technique. Anyway we are a little off track but my initial comment was relating to the Doc Ock arms in this movie, I thought they looked fine in the trailer so it doesn't seem like an example of bad CGI to me. 

True.  Again, a whole argument is started here because of what Tom Holland SAID in an interview, and what he revealed about the production process, not what is being SHOWN to audiences.  This is again where too much press convolutes the circulating discussion and reception.  If they maintained a bit more mystery in the process...many audiences and fanboys might be none the wiser.  And we'd all argue less.  

 

...But we also know Holland can't quite keep his mouth shut... 😂

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5 minutes ago, Menor said:

Yes. The issue is not CGI itself, but the quality of the CGI. It's on the filmmakers, not the technique.

Agree.

 

5 minutes ago, Menor said:

 Anyway we are a little off track but my initial comment was relating to the Doc Ock arms in this movie, I thought they looked fine in the trailer so it doesn't seem like an example of bad CGI to me. 

Even though I'd prefer old techinque, but my problem with Doc Ock in the trailer is not his arms, but CGId Molina, he doesn't look like himself.

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I think to be anti CGI is silly, it's here to stay...but it should be used only for things you can't do with practical effects.

One of the reason that Peter Jackson's Hobbit films were not as visually good as the LOTR films is that Jackson got lazy and decided to do almost everything with CGI... In LOTR foe the big exteriior scenes he used mineratures combined with CGI. In the Hobbit, he used almost all CGI for the big sets. ..and that was nowhere as good.

Of course that is a long way from being the only reason The Hobbit films were a dissapointment, but  they were a reason.

 

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A lot of conflicting reports about the state of negotiations over the strike.

But anybody who thinks this cannot happen is living in a fool's paradise.

Yes, IMHO it would be a stupid thing for studios to do, but studios have been known to do some pretty stupid things.

Real issue is they have been treating post production workers like serfs with no rights for a long time, and they don't like having to give that up. They might think pain now is worth it in the long run if they can break the union..which might be their ulitamte goal.

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5 minutes ago, dudalb said:

A lot of conflicting reports about the state of negotiations over the strike.

But anybody who thinks this cannot happen is living in a fool's paradise.

Yes, IMHO it would be a stupid thing for studios to do, but studios have been known to do some pretty stupid things.

Real issue is they have been treating post production workers like serfs with no rights for a long time, and they don't like having to give that up. They might think pain now is worth it in the long run if they can break the union..which might be their ulitamte goal.

 

Why cant you post in the IATSE thread about this? Its a sticky and easy to find. 

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Just now, Ronin46 said:

 

Why cant you post in the IATSE thread about this? Its a sticky and easy to find. 

Becuase it is being discusses in many threads?

You know, the problem with living in you won little fandom world is that reality will break in.

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Just now, dudalb said:

Becuase it is being discusses in many threads?

You know, the problem with living in you won little fandom world is that reality will break in.

 

I don't have any fandom for

 

- Spiderman or

- Dudalb incoherent and  pointless movie thread spamming  about the strike.

 

there is a dedicated thread for discussion about the strike. Its stickied so its easy to find. 

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