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I went into this movie thinking I would hate it. But it’s...really good. My theatre was full it was mostly white males. I hate to say rednecks but I can’t think of a nicer way of saying it. I was kind of scared given all the controversy over this film but now I don’t even understand what it was all about? He’s clearly a villain and he’s not humanized anymore than Thanos. He’s evil. 
 

What really surprised me was how all those men in the theatre pretty much didn’t like it at the end. They were all meh 😑. But me, a woman and one of the few on the theatre, did. And on the way out two women said to a guy who clearly didn’t like “Well what were you expecting?” They liked it. I don’t get it but like I said, I really enjoyed it. 
 

But I did not care for the parts with Zazie. That was over the top disturbing. Everything else was great though. I hope this is tied into the new Batman film. 

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THE JOKER

 

When I first learned of this casting I was like...why. There already is a new Joker from the SS. I thought this trash was all going to be connected but now we are going back in time. What on earth was happening. Well, that first trailer grabbed my attention. It suddenly became a must watch for me and even my dad got interested in watching this after he saw an ad about it on tv. First, while watching this movie I loved the music/soundtrack. It had a very TDK vibe to it's score. I also like the song choice when Joker is dancing down the steps. Second, Phoenix is so great in the role. The Oscar talk is legit and it would be a pleasure should he win for such a performance. He was able to bring out the pain and struggle of the character in ways you could relate to in terms of therapy and needing medication to maintain control and being a person who wants to be kind yet the world around him eventually forces him a different way. Reading other reviews talk about their opinions on what was real and what wasn't and when is interesting and I didn't expect Beetz sequences to have been imagined. I certainly found it weird in one sequence when he knocks on the door and she answers and boom he thrusts himself upon her and she goes with it. Weird but I didn't think it was fake at the time so that was a surprise and makes me want to see it again. Finally, the violence in the film is not over the top. I've seen worse in other films. All the killings were pretty obvious they were coming but it was still suspenseful and heart pounding at times. It's a definite future purchase for me. 

 

Grade - A

 

 

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The scene with the joker walking out of the station amid the carnage smoking a cigarette was one of the coolest this decade. I had goosebumps. 

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On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 2:07 AM, TMP said:

Too derivative of Scorsese's works to ever rise above being "good", but everything outside of the script is pretty incredible. Joaquin gives a performance up there with Freddie Quell and Theodore Twombly, and the cinematography and production design give the world this real nice texture, one that feels so tangible as though you could reach out and touch it. The score's great too, something that (along with the cinematography) is something that most of these funnybook movies really lack in. Just wish the script was a little tighter and had something more to say.

This, Phoenix is incredible as the  Joker..I think he needs to make space on his desk for a certain statue....but, yeah, the script borrows very heavily from "Taxi Driver" "King of Comedy" and couple of other Scorsese films. What some people here are calling "original and daring" are things Scorsese did 40 years ago in "Taxi Driver"

The visuals are great...Gotham City is portrayed as a decaying cesspool..you can almost smell the garbage, the score is really good..both the original score ands the use of songs...(I will never hear "Send In The CLowns" in quite the same way again) and the performances are good across the board.

Lots of visual homages to various films aside from the Scrosese films...the scenes in which Arthur Fleck gets the shit kicked out him are a pretty obvious homage to "a Clockwork Orange), among others.

And there are several things in the film which are going to make it hard to fit this in with the standard DCU, or ever the standard Batman franchise...the portrayal of Thomas Wayne as a major jerk being one of them..so I think this is a stand alone film.

I would give it 8 0ut of 10..loses two points for being a bit too derivitave.

 

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On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 8:43 PM, filmlover said:

So after all the hysteria and controversy it turns out that this is actually...good, but not great. I ended up finding myself rather frustrated with this movie in the end simply because for the first half this was so good and then it started to sputter a bit for me. It does feel like Todd Phillips bit off more than he can chew, as in addition to giving us an exploration of The Joker's origins he also tries to tackle some social commentary (mental illness, wealth inequality) that ends up coming across as empty and without a whole lot new to say. Also felt like some the writing choices felt a little too convenient, especially in the second half. Phillips is obviously attempting to channel Scorsese here (much more so than he was in his previous movie, 2016's War Dogs), and even gets Scorsese favorite Robert De Niro along for the ride in a supporting role, but he doesn't quite have Scorsese's level of craft when it comes to telling stories such as this. I don't want to sound down on the movie too much, for I did like it. This is definitely a well-crafted movie that pulls no punches in its nihilism, one in which every frame feels like it was designed to make the audience feel uneasy. The world of 1981 Gotham City as depicted here certainly doesn't look like a place anyone would want to visit. But making up for most of the movie's flaws more than anything else is Joaquin Phoenix. Losing a terrifying amount of weight, Phoenix loses himself in the part, crafting Arthur into a fascinating and disconcerting anti-hero. Matching up to Heath Ledger's iconic performance is the tallest of tall orders, but he's up to the challenge, giving us a Joker that stands out from Ledger's (as well as Jack Nicholson, Jared Leto, etc.). Other notable actors (the aforementioned De Niro, Zazie Beetz, Frances Conroy) have little to do, which is fine because Phoenix is the real star of this show. It's well worth seeing (especially for those craving to see what a comic book movie completely devoid of spectacle would look like) and does more right than wrong. It's just too bad that it falls short of the greatness it could've achieved. B

Just have to point out that Scorsese's production company is one of the companies that made the film, that the lady who produced Scorsese's last couple of films was a producer on this, and Scrosese was going to be an Excutive Produder on this film, but dropped out to concentrate on "The Irishman".

So the Scorsese connections go a lot farther then just De Niro being in it.

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As far as comic book character studies go, Logan was better.

 

Phoenix was great, though.

 

B-

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I liked this. The biggest thing it had going for it was the bleak atmosphere. Phoenix's performance, the direction, photography and music all combine really well to make an interesting, unique experience that for the most part overcome the flaws of the film. Which other than some clunky dialogue and plotting here and there and underwritten side characters, the main thing is what a lot of others have said, it just doesn't feel that "deep", or at least not as deep as it thinks it is. Which I know is a vague criticism, but it's how I feel. Whatever social statement the film is trying to make just feels a little surface level and at times spelled-out and blunt.

 

Honestly the movie ended just when I was starting to really get into it, and maybe if it went on a little longer they could've dug deeper into these things. I actually think the movie could have gone on a bit longer, and I think there should be a sequel (which the way film is performing seems very likely). The movie ends when Arthur well and truly becomes the Joker and I thought this was Phoenix's performance at its most compelling. And honestly Phoenix's performance as The Joker feels a liiittle spotty, like I wasn't quite sure of what he was doing with the voice and it felt like he wasn't 100% there yet (although thinking about it that could be true of the actual character of Arthur as well, not fully "become" the Joker yet), but it was still utterly compelling and if they (probably) make a sequel he'll really get a chance to flesh the character out and go to some cool places with it. Which is kinda how I feel about the film as a whole, it's good but it felt like a little something was missing, and I think a sequel could build on what they've established here and improve it. I don't think they need to be as beholden to Scorsese in the future, I didn't have any problem with the story elements cribbing from Scorsese but some of the overt visual homages felt a little over the top (thinking him pointing the gun at the TV). Also some better written side characters, seems like they just underwrote everyone that wasn't Arthur and then cast really high caliber actors hoping they'd seem more memorable (De Niro was fun though). Still though, I think it's commendable for a major studio to commit to something this bleak as a big tentpole release and it working out for them.

 

Also Not sure how I felt about Zazie Beetz's role in the film. I mean it's clear as day she's in his imagination, I don't think the movie is even trying to hide that fact. I don't know, just felt weird and I wasn't sure if that story element worked for me or not. And I think they left her fate ambiguous in case they do make a sequel. I think killing her off would have been a ballsier move though and the logical progression of his character.

 

ALSO Lowkey first trailer is better than the movie, and I kinda thought it would be. I mean this trailer is incredible and basically takes you through the whole arc of the movie in 2 and a half minutes

 

 

And Heath is still the GOAT Joker

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I'm shocked this was made at a studio in 2019. Flawed but riveting and better than anything Marvel's assembly line has ever shat out. B+

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This felt a parody of psychopath origin or biopic flicks. To the point that I'm not convinced it's not a clever satire of that kind of downbeat docudrama. It so loudly, aggressively, hilariously screams to be taken seriously at every turn without actually engaging any of commentary and themes it slams down the gullet. 

 

I do think it works as parody of these kind of movies. Even having an unreliable narrator hint strongly that maybe all, some or none of it is real. If none is, I'd hope Joker would have a better imagination though.

 

Loved Phoenix but more than his other awesome recent acting like Vice, You Were Never, Master, Her, felt like I was watching Phoenix more so than watching inhabit a character because Fleck was so paint by numbers and hollow. Very fun to watch him regardless here. But, always just felt like him doing performance art. Shame Fleck wasn't more than a sum of the psycho checklist. His mom is probably the most interesting character. The rest are so egregiously one note or flat out don't exist so... That's all we really have. Ma Joker. And, Joker. The rest is... Kind of nothing or representations of undercooked ideas.

 

Definitely well shot. Score is good technically but something different maybe would've made the movie feel more off-kilter, strange and eerie rather than merely oppressive, oppressiver and more oppressive.

 

What should you expect though from a movie in which his laugh isn't a laugh but a spasm, he's abused in every way by everyone seemingly from birth, changes signs to read Don't Laugh! I instead of Don't Forget To Laugh!, it goes on and on and on. Why so serious? Well, this movie's answer... THIS IS FUCKING SERIOUS! TAKE IT SERIOUSLY! DO NOT LAUGH! Oh, yeah, and maybe none of it happened? Maybe he's been in Arkham the whole time since we first flashed to him slamming his head against a glass window. So, really, why should we take it seriously if it's likely a grand delusion with smaller delusions littered with the grand delusion.

 

Twist with Zazie I think is supposed to be overtly obvious, no? Otherwise he'd have daydreamed and romanced a woman more fitting of the downturn, downtrodden feel of his building so. A more desperate woman. That it would come as more of a surprise than him landing far and away the most attractive woman that's ever on screen. Maybe that's a hint that she's never real in any way ever throughout the whole film too? Does it even matter. Didn't work for me either way.

 

That opening with water draining like weak prostrate urine flow from his flower after those kids pummel him then his later firing at clown temp headquarters with the oppressive chords blaring felt like they were pulled from a down and out Krusty the Clown centric Simpsons episode. I wanted to crack up and bust out laughing each time but feared the audience wouldn't take it well.

 

Oh, yeah, him screaming the themes at the audience of the TV show and audience at large, you know just in case you somehow hadn't gotten them given how heavy handed the whole fucking thing is, felt like something out of a South Park send up... I did bust out laughing there. Couldn't hold it back.

 

C-/D+

Edited by JohnnyGossamer
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Just give the guy an oscar already. One of the best performances i have ever seen. Unreal. I liked the link to the Wayne murders. 

 

Movie itself was great. No idea what Americans are so worried about but then i guess just a different culture over here (in the UK). We don't have all have the same problems. I thought the message was quite clear. Don't cut public health spending! lol

 

Well shot film by Todd Philips, i'm sad it wasn't better received by the US critics. But i feel there is always an anti-DC bias from some critics. They have already made their mind up for anything that isn't Marvel. DC/WB deserves it for some of the turds they have let out but not all. 

 

Anyways Joker is laughing all the way to fucking bank lol.

 

A-

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2 hours ago, Omario said:

Just give the guy an oscar already

He should have had one for the Master over Day Lewis' Lincoln win tbh

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16 hours ago, TMP said:

He should have had one for the Master over Day Lewis' Lincoln win tbh

Yes. This is true. Maybe my favorite Phoenix anything. Didn't love Inherent Vice but loved him there too.

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Saw this. Well what do you know, it turns out the real clown was Todd Phillips all along. A man who has nothing to offer here except '70s fetishism, being able to play music really fucking loud, and thinking that character drama = fakeouts and constant victimization (the worst offenders being asshole Wall Street bros who... know Sondheim lyrics by heart) - he even manages to take Phoenix down with him, given that he never seems interested in Arthur as a human being, only as a collection of crude surface tics to be paraded in front of the audience - and yet a man in a world (or should I say a society) where mass film culture has now been sufficiently infantilized that people can look at this rambling one-note Taxi Driver wannabe that pretends it has something to say and seriously take it on its word. Is it just me or is it getting crazier out there? 

Edited by Jake Gittes
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I think this film works really well because you are never really suspended outside of reality of whatever you see on screen is something you can imagine in the real world.

 

So when Joker shots the host, that is not something that seems like a crazy movie moment, it seems something a person with his issues could do in reality.

 

It was very well done and a lot of people will say this is not really art but a commercial brand but reality is a lot of movies like Joker just dont become successful usually because in the end people are interested in the joker... Dont think most audiences would have watched this film if it was 2 hours of crazy man going into insanity.

 

A- 

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The part where he crosses out the sign that says "don't forget to laugh" and the part where he literally screams the movie's "themes" right before he shoots Robert De Niro are two examples of how head thumpingly obvious this movie was with absolutely nothing new to say about society. However, I thought it DID have something more interesting to say when it came to the Joker as a concept and how we tell stories about superheros/villains. They aren't people that fall into vats of acid, they're just lonely creepos enabled by other lonely creepos. Doesn't really try to say enough about that because it is so focused on SOCIETY. The style was indeed a rip-off but I prefer the derivative but still actually good cinematography, production design, editing, and score that we saw here than the majority of blockbuster movies which appear to be shot in an Atlanta or Vancouver parking lot. I could go for more of the production quality of this in my IP movies. Phoenix was good but has been better in alot of things, much more actorly here. There's some compelling stuff but ultimately alot of missed opportunity. 

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What was the point of those super rats? Was that a gun metaphor? Bad guys with guns = super rats, good guys with guns = super cats. Or was it just because the garbage was that bad?

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1 hour ago, TMP said:

What was the point of those super rats? Was that a gun metaphor? Bad guys with guns = super rats, good guys with guns = super cats. Or was it just because the garbage was that bad?

Just to show how much disregard the rich have for the poor. Living in squalor, literally buried in their own garbage to the point of birthing a new breed of super rat and yet the big wigs still won't ante up so that garbage strike ends. Won't placate the blue collar working class with a reasonable wage. Rather just let them live and breath their own filth. Then, the wealthy talk show guy directly mocks their living situation with a cheap, lowbrow quip. Maybe more to it than that but that's what I thought.

Edited by JohnnyGossamer
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1 hour ago, TMP said:

What was the point of those super rats? Was that a gun metaphor? Bad guys with guns = super rats, good guys with guns = super cats. Or was it just because the garbage was that bad?

i believe it was todd phillips original vision that the third act consist of the joker fighting a giant CG mutant rat. but the studio made him cut it smh.

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29 minutes ago, CoolioD1 said:

i believe it was todd phillips original vision that the third act consist of the joker fighting a giant CG mutant rat. but the studio made him cut it smh.

A DC movie without a giant CGI grey monster in the finale? The Italians were right, this really is revolutionary

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