Joker

[EarlyDeadlinePredictions]

Great movie and phenomenal performance by Phoenix. Wouldn't call it a masterpiece as the script is pretty on the nose and not really as deep as its wants be. Still, the score, cinematography and Phoenix made this one of the more memorable CBM movies for me. 

 

8/10 (A-)

[JohnnyGossamer]

21 hours ago, Lucas said:

Clocks appear to be the same at different points during the movie 

Is left Arkham at the end and right his visit to his social worker?

[Lucas]

19 minutes ago, JohnnyGossamer said:

Is left Arkham at the end and right his visit to his social worker?

Yeah, the clock he beats the shit out of at work is also the same.

[JohnnyGossamer]

43 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Yeah, the clock he beats the shit out of at work is also the same.

Potentially a strong hint that entire thing's a grand delusion? The flash to him violently slamming his head against a glass window in Arkham then later being in the same room at the end is another nod that maybe none of what we're seeing is happening. It's just his delusional projections of people. Note essentially everyone in it is ceaselessly mean or doesn't exist... Note how boorish, violent and awful Tom Wayne us... Note all the reasons(excuses) he gives for himself for morphing into unhinged psychopath... Note how perfectly everythingruthing falls into place for him... Note how completely ridiculous it is they folks start wearing clown masks all over town and the riots reach the fever pitch they hit within minutes of his killing of DeNiro... Note how it shows its cards in a much bigger way at the end when it embraces the surrealism fading to white as he runs around like Bugs Bunny... When I saw it, I assumed Todd Phillips was doing a half-hearted it's a grand delusion and there are smaller delusions within said grand delusion. One giant half-truth or lie. The entire thing is riddled with unreliability. Reveals are undone a few times too. Figure it's all intentional.

 

Anyway, like everything else in the movie, Phillips doesn't commit fully. So... It's very much left open. It's the read that makes most sense to me given how everything is portrayed in the movie. Just seems to outwardly reflect his madness, his view.

 

I imagine all clocks ever seen are that time given its done three times that you're aware of...

 

11:11... Is that the same number that repeats in Us? If so, maybe he's drawing from the same biblical passage.

Edited October 16, 2019 by JohnnyGossamer

[That One Girl]

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Edited February 28, 2022 by That One Guy

[CoolioD1]

13 hours ago, That One Guy said:

A movie that tries to make a statement while simulataneously believing in nothing ("I'm not political, I just want to make people laugh").  

using a quote from the character doesn't really hold up as evidence of the belief of the film itself unless you're one of those people who thinks taxi driver is racist because it's about a racist. it definitely has an "eat the rich" vibe with ideas about the disenfranchisement of the working class/mentally ill/the institutions that are supposed to help them. the presentation is a little muddled but i'm not sure where believes in nothing comes from.

Edited October 19, 2019 by CoolioD1

[That One Girl]

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Edited February 28, 2022 by That One Guy

[CoolioD1]

if it's condemning both sides that's because it's condemning the system that puts them at odds in the first place. yes in other words "society maaaan"  specifically capitalism, lots of movies this year seem to be on that wave. obviously the protesters are bad for letting it turn into a murder riot but i don't think the movie has anything against their initial motivations.

[lorddemaxus]

33 minutes ago, That One Guy said:

 

Not necessarily evidence of the film's beliefs, but I do think it's fun to see that quote in context of the film, especially given the press tour that Todd Phillips did before the film's release where he talked about how woke culture is killing comedy (it absolutely feels like something he'd say).  As for the whole "eat the rich" element, I wish the film had pushed itself further with that, but to me it read like the film was not only condemning the billionaires that fuck over the working class and mentally ill but also condemning the people rioting about these issues.  Felt like "both sides are bad" nonsense.  So maybe saying it believes in nothing isn't completely correct, it just believes in centrism.  If it had pushed itself further into any of these ideas then I'd probably like it a bit more, just because it'd at least resemble an idea.

I don't think the movie was condemning them for rioting over the issues or even condemning them at all. I disagree the movie was centrist. I think the Joker himself was apolitical but that doesn't mean the movie is. I think its a weird way to tell the story though. I spoke about this to a friend of mine (who really liked the movie) and he thinks the beauty of the movie is that the Fleck has nothing to do with the turmoil and the conflict that is happening around him. He's just a mentally ill person killing people because they weren't nice to him but on the other hand, the people who want to destroy the rich becayse they are actually getting fucked by them see his actions as a movement against the rich . But I really don't see why that's beautiful. It just muddles the message because we are following the apolitical joker, not the rioters (whom I would have liked to have seen more of).

Edited October 19, 2019 by lorddemaxus

[Chucky]

90 minutes of bogus trying to pass itself off as art followed by a pretty good final half hour.  Phoenix was good but he was still no Ledger

 

B

[Chucky]

On 10/9/2019 at 8:10 PM, Jake Gittes said:

Saw this. Well what do you know, it turns out the real clown was Todd Phillips all along. A man who has nothing to offer here except '70s fetishism, being able to play music really fucking loud, and thinking that character drama = fakeouts and constant victimization (the worst offenders being asshole Wall Street bros who... know Sondheim lyrics by heart) - he even manages to take Phoenix down with him, given that he never seems interested in Arthur as a human being, only as a collection of crude surface tics to be paraded in front of the audience - and yet a man in a world (or should I say a society) where mass film culture has now been sufficiently infantilized that people can look at this rambling one-note Taxi Driver wannabe that pretends it has something to say and seriously take it on its word. Is it just me or is it getting crazier out there? 

Relax it's a movie not a dick, dont take it so hard 

[dxmatrixdt]

so the movie is too derivative when the setting is already a corrupt society, 

the character Arthur doesn't seem to wake up further or emerge during any points of the movie, but he looked like he could have had some managerial experience doing something

[Goffe]

I expected more after all the controversy? Awful, but in a really really mediocre way. 15/100

Edited November 26, 2019 by Goffe

[Damien]

It was fine, I liked it. I still don't understand why this of all movies got such really strong reactions from critics either for or against. Every thing about it was great except the script and sometimes Joaquin phoenix. The movie lacks finesse, which is probably due to it's director. I do hope this gets recognition for it's cinematography and score. 

I would give this an A- or B+.

[Jim Shorts]

Tried watching this again last night and barely got through the first 20 minutes before I walked out and caught the last half of Knives Out.  As much as I liked Phoenix’s performance in this movie, I think seeing it once was good enough. It was just boring to watch a 2nd time. 

[Lordmandeep]

On 10/19/2019 at 1:41 PM, That One Guy said:

 

Not necessarily evidence of the film's beliefs, but I do think it's fun to see that quote in context of the film, especially given the press tour that Todd Phillips did before the film's release where he talked about how woke culture is killing comedy (it absolutely feels like something he'd say).  As for the whole "eat the rich" element, I wish the film had pushed itself further with that, but to me it read like the film was not only condemning the billionaires that fuck over the working class and mentally ill but also condemning the people rioting about these issues.  Felt like "both sides are bad" nonsense.  So maybe saying it believes in nothing isn't completely correct, it just believes in centrism.  If it had pushed itself further into any of these ideas then I'd probably like it a bit more, just because it'd at least resemble an idea.

 

 

Woke Culture has sort of limited the appeal of comedy to a mass audience.

 

it is way someone from all the way from the 2000s like Chappele still dominates comedy and a lot of the current late night talk show hosts have a miniscule audience compared to your Lettermans and Lenos of the past.

 

 

I am not saying woke culture has killed comedy but it has 100% limited its appeal. 

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

B+

 

Tour de Force performance from Pheonix and some great work from Phillips in the last half hour. The rest is very average and the movie doesn't have half as much to say as it seems to think it has. The last scene is awful and retrospectively does a lot of damage to the film, but the acting, score and some of the photography keep it comfortably in "good" territory.

 

Overrated in some quarters, unfairly and wrongly condemned in others. It's actually mostly just a kind of good, above-average movie that's well worth seeing but nothing special.

[YM!]

So... a watered down Taxi Driver with a solid performance from Phoenix.

C-