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Eric and Jerry

Weekend Thread: SW 26.2/25.3/21 72.5M | Jumanji 11.7/12.4/11 35.1M | Frozen 6/5.85/5.3 17.15M

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24 minutes ago, Force Ghost Cap said:

As someone who isn’t really into Star Wars, but knows enough about Star Wars our of fandom obligation to my friends:

 

This is all JJ Abrams fault. 
 

He directed and revived the series, but left it with no plan. Then the returned with a conclusion that Is just bad. It has serious pacing issues, several of the revelations fall flat or just don’t work, and it doesn’t provide a satisfactory end to its characters. That is all on him.

Not just his fault.

Sure he has a bone for nostalgia to the point he overuses it every time and that makes his stories pretty much a retelling of old ones, but so is Rian for deciding to do his own things instead of bulding a bridge between the first and the second movies in the trilogy.

Plus LF for letting the ego and nostalgia madness of those two to run wild.

And lets not forget Disney and their greed.

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1 minute ago, cdsacken said:

Fair enough. Seems delusional to me, Phantom Menace was much worse and I liked that too. It was ok. F is reserved for you got served. I can't understand anyone who ever rates it on that scale, ever.

I mean I walked out of the theater pretty annoyed and disappointed. Very rarely does a movie fail to entertain me and especially a SW movie so I feel like an F is warranted for that. And I love TPM so that's where different tastes comes in :). 

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TROS is not the last chance at 600M in the next 10 years. Come on. You can have an entire trilogy of blockbusters that haven't even started yet in that time. 

 

Nevermind stuff like Jurassic World or Black Panther that were being pegged at half of what they made domestic before release. 

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33 minutes ago, Cappoedameron said:

Yet it was Rian Johnson's film that proved to be the most divisive and fan dividing film of all. JJ was tasked with the impossible, he couldn't clean up Rian Johnson's mess. 

 

This isn't JJ's fault. This is Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy. They revived it with no plan at all. 

Counterpoint, 

 

JJ Abrams didn't leave Rian with a clear plan. He also didn't direct it.  If he had done either, TLJ might've been not "the most divisive and fan dividing film of all".  So, still JJ's fault.

 

1 minute ago, Djennir said:

Not just his fault.

True.  But if you say it's Disney's fault, you invite people to run rampant with conspiracy theories.  If you say it's Kathleen Kennedy's fault, you invite people to run rampant with sexist complaints.  I have zero interest in or time for either.  I'm not passing the buck.  This is on JJ.  

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5 minutes ago, Djennir said:

Not just his fault.

Sure he has a bone for nostalgia to the point he overuses it every time and that makes his stories pretty much a retelling of old ones, but so is Rian for deciding to do his own things instead of bulding a bridge between the first and the second movies in the trilogy.

Plus LF for letting the ego and nostalgia madness of those two to run wild.

And lets not forget Disney and their greed.

I will never not be astounded at people complaining about filmmakers prioritizing their movie over just being a setup for future movies.

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3 hours ago, ZackM said:

I've got Saturday about 2% ahead of Friday as of 1:30 EST.  I wonder if Saturday will lose ground this evening due to CFB playoffs.

Walkups have been a tiny bit better this afternoon.  As of 4:30PM EST Saturday is just a touch over 2% ahead of Friday.  It was a touch under 2% at 1:30PM EST.

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Anyway,

 

It's been three years to the day since Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds passed.  Gonna do an Empire Strikes Back and Singin' In The Rain double feature as I cry.

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6 minutes ago, kswiston said:

TROS is not the last chance at 600M in the next 10 years. Come on. You can have an entire trilogy of blockbusters that haven't even started yet in that time. 

Of new stuff you mean? It seems unlikely given the box office these last few years, but let's hope so.

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6 minutes ago, Force Ghost Cap said:

Counterpoint, 

 

JJ Abrams didn't leave Rian with a clear plan. He also didn't direct it.  If he had done either, TLJ might've been not "the most divisive and fan dividing film of all".  So, still JJ's fault.

 

True.  But if you say it's Disney's fault, you invite people to run rampant with conspiracy theories.  If you say it's Kathleen Kennedy's fault, you invite people to run rampant with sexist complaints.  I have zero interest in or time for either.  I'm not passing the buck.  This is on JJ.  

but that is passing the buck this was Kennedy’s responsibility but she allowed it to go to shit. No plan, director who gave each other the middle finger through their films. Firing nearly every director just poorly run.

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7 minutes ago, ViewerAnon said:

I will never not be astounded at people complaining about filmmakers prioritizing their movie over just being a setup for future movies.

When you’re in a franchise you have to do that or you risk breaking the whole thing. Directors shouldn’t always be thinking of it but it damn should by a producers number one job so the biggest failure of this trilogy was Kennedy 

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It wasn't really JJ's job to be in control of the trilogy. He was hired for 1 film, The Force Awakens, and he succeeded at that. Lucasfilm thought for whatever reason that they should have separate directors, and allow the directors to do as they please.

 

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No 600M grossers for the next 10 years is certainly dramatic. Take a look at the very start of 2010 (start of this decade). Marvel was simply one above average comic book movie and one terrible movie. Star wars hadn't even been purchased by Disney yet with no plans on the horizon, and you have films like Jurassic World which were predicted to make like 200M not even a week out from release. 

 

10 years will bring lots of inflation as well, not to mention if no film makes the mark for a while the don't underestimate the power of multiple years of box office lul suddenly empowering a random crowd pleaser to insane heights

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3 minutes ago, Force Ghost Cap said:

Counterpoint, 

 

JJ Abrams didn't leave Rian with a clear plan. He also didn't direct it.  If he had done either, TLJ might've been not "the most divisive and fan dividing film of all".  So, still JJ's fault.

 

True.  But if you say it's Disney's fault, you invite people to run rampant with conspiracy theories.  If you say it's Kathleen Kennedy's fault, you invite people to run rampant with sexist complaints.  I have zero interest in or time for either.  I'm not passing the buck.  This is on JJ.  

I also don't have interest in tin hat folks or misogynists bastards but i simply don't think one can mess a whole Star wars trilogy alone. But yeah better let it die here since this is a thread for weekend numbers. 🙂

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1 minute ago, MrGlass2 said:

Of new stuff you mean? It seems unlikely given the box office these last few years, but let's hope so.

 

"New" as in not currently running. Not necessarily new IP. Could be a relaunch. Could be 2027's equivalent of Potter or the Hunger Games. Who knows. 10 years is a long time. 

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9 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

You end the movie with a beaten Resistance that are seeing the First Order to grow fast commanded by a mad villain that could do anything since he kill his own master, and now they need to discover how to win with so little chances. I mean, you doesn't really need more hook than that, maybe commercially is not the ideal, but is more than enough to write a good sequel.

 

Actually, going deeper than that, if they followed TLJ plot they're not only have this hook, but they also could have:

- Kylo becoming the villain of the movie without an redemption arc (something you know, fresh);

- Poe doing Leia job and fighting to bring people to a broke resistance;

- An ultimate fight between Rey and Kylo after they're doubts in TLJ (which could also use they're connection in very cool ways);

- Rey learning how to become what she need to become as a Jedi, instead of appear knowing everything;

- Even Luke could appear in the movie helping Rey to finish her training.

 

The list can go on, the problem here is not that TLJ didn't left good set-ups, is that what TLJ left didn't fit Disney desires anymore because it's not relied in easter eggs, mysteries, nostalgia etc. They see part of fandom rejecting TLJ and they think that just ignore this movie and make another funny adventure movie that is cool to watch despite making the entire trilogy looks like a mess is enough, and i understand that, it's the safe and easy choice, but it didn't work because it's not well written and because they choose to make an incoherent movie, not because TLJ solve everything.

IMO this is one of the worst takes and is part of why people are surprised that ROS is nearing freefall status right now. I truly don't understand how people think it's a good movie, FORGET about a good setup for a sequel.

 

The fact that you COULD go somewhere after TLJ doesnt change that the movie AS WRITTEN works as a conclusion. I explained this elsewhere, but it ends similarly to 2009 Star Trek, where yeah the characters' lives go on but it's also a fine ending point on its own.  There's a difference between something being resolved and something feeling like a resolution.

 

If you have to sit down in a writer's room for an afternoon to figure out what hooks you have going into the next movie, that's a pretty shitty setup for the next movie, as the average person is not going to think about it that deeply. Logic and rational thought don't matter here. In other words, if it feels like an ending, to the average viewer its gonna be an ending.

 

Furthermore, each of your points are already things that TLJ resolved in its own story or retreaded from force awakens:

 

1)Kylo already went full villain when he killed Han. They retread the inner conflict from TFA when he hesitated to kill his mother. He goes full ragebaby when he sees Luke, and since Luke is one of the HEROES, that already cements him as a villain turning his back on a possible redemption.

2)Clunky "spark that will light the fire blahblahbalh" line already has some payoff when they set up that Luke's final stand inspired a new generation of fighters

3)Ultimate fight between Rey and Kylo after their doubts? They already fought once, she won, and the movie ends with him being outsmarted. The broken lightsaber scene shows they are about equal in strength. Why should I care about any further confrontation between them? All evidence suggests Rey would win again.  Not only that, but she already rejected his offer to join up, so there isn't even the hook of potential ideological union between them.

4)By the end of TLJ Rey has already performed almost all known (via the films) Jedi abilities anyway.

5)Why have him die if he's just going to show up as a force ghost to help her finish training?

 

TLJ goes out of its way to shoot down any interesting ideas that it brings up. Everything else is just a waste of time retread of TFA. There is no good place for the story to go after ep 8, so much so that I've seen several people say they're going to just consider 8 the ending :rofl:

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JJ was also an executive producer for TLJ and said he wished he had been able to direct the script that RJ came up with. He takes some or much of the blame for TLJ as well.

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In October 2012, Disney announced a new trilogy of Star Wars films.[41] J. J. Abrams was named director of the first episode in the trilogy, The Force Awakens, in January 2013.[42][43] In June 2014, director Rian Johnson was reported to be in talks to write and direct its sequel, Episode VIII, and to write a treatment for the third film, Episode IX, with Ram Bergman producing both films.[44][45] Johnson confirmed in August 2014 that he would direct Episode VIII.[46]

 

 

(So - in 2014, before release of The Force Awakens,, it was confirmed that each film would have different directors)

 

Edited by Avatree
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3 minutes ago, Killimano3 said:

No 600M grossers for the next 10 years is certainly dramatic. Take a look at the very start of 2010 (start of this decade). Marvel was simply one above average comic book movie and one terrible movie. Star wars hadn't even been purchased by Disney yet with no plans on the horizon, and you have films like Jurassic World which were predicted to make like 200M not even a week out from release. 

 

10 years will bring lots of inflation as well, not to mention if no film makes the mark for a while the don't underestimate the power of multiple years of box office lul suddenly empowering a random crowd pleaser to insane heights

this.

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