MLK Weekend Thread: Bad Boys 62.5/73.03 (2nd biggest January debut) | Dolittle 21.84/28.3 | 1917 21.98/26.9

[Lordmandeep]

Jan 2009 was wild

 

 

You Paul Blart, Gran Torino and Taken blowing up within the first month of that year...

 

[VanillaSkies]

Terrible PTA for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. 
Also, Joker was released in 854 theatres and we dint have an estimate for it, so we can assume it’s also low. 
 

while I understand the want to try and make a little extra cash on these, those theatres could have gone to current releases. Both have full DVD releases already.  parasite for instance hasn’t been released beyond 900 theatres so far. It deserves further expansion. Same for Jojo which is at its highest count so far this weekend. Even Bombshell which lost a bunch of theaters but has a solid PTA could have used some more theatres. Oh well. I guess they will both drop counts substantially next weekend. 

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

35 minutes ago, baumer said:

@LawrenceBrolivier thanks for reading the piece and for the kind words. I think more than any other genre horror has got to be the most subjective even more than comedy. What scares or entertains one person or talks to a person can mean nothing to somebody else. When you say that you don't think the film's I have listed here truly represent what has been going on with horror for the last decade, I disagree with you.

 

Ok so here is where I would come in to disagree in the way that you evaluate horror films. Or at least that those who are enthusiasts of the genre and want its betterment evaluate horror films.

 

Yes: Of course what we are scared of is subjective. What everyones is scared of is subjective.

 

We all have that one movie (or more) for instance that everyone else thinks is lame as heck but for whatever reason GETS us every time. 

 

BUT if you limit yourself to movies that just scare you when identifying "good" horror films I think you are doing the genre a HUGE disservice. 

 

Because you are essentially negotiating horror out of almost any awards consideration, any list of best movies and so on. As we see because the only horror films that get that credibility given to them are films that straddle genres with the thriller or actions movies (SilenceOTL, Jaws, Get Out etc) and as such don't NEED the validation of being found scary to be considered 'good'.

 

If we dismiss, let's say, Hereditary JUST because we didn't find it scary, and ignore the objectively excellent acting, thematic work, creative direction use of representation, spin on Rosemary's baby elements....then we're throwing a movie under a bus just because it doesn't tick out specific fear boxes. And I'm not sure that's the way we horror fans should be going about this.

 

I will use the comparison to a drama here: The Godfather. We are inured to being able to watch a drama film without identification and empathy, even if that was the intention. If you have a specific personal background relating to masculinity in the family, the immigrant experience, or organised crime then it's likely/possible you will form a close emotional attachment to the Godfather. BUT EVEN if you don't, when it comes to a drama we've still been trained to accept the excellent positives about it.

 

We - both the casual audience, but more notably us enthusiasts - don't extend that luxury to horror in most cases. I would rathe than we accept that tendency in the general audience and propose that we should be FAR more forgiving of films we, personally, don't find scary.

 

That's not to say we can't slate films for being lazy, derivative, trite, poorly structured (which I would argue for It: Chapter 2, which if there was any of the Top 10 I'd specifically have a shot at it would be that one), shot, not making sense and so on. But we should be wary of slating brave films just because they didn't do it 'for us'. Yes, it's likely these movies don't get on our personal Top 10s, but I think we can and should adjust our languages when talking about the...well, for me it would be Mandy or It Follows because I didn't find tension PERSONALLY in either of those films, but I applaud the creative process and thinking in both.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Ipickthiswhiterose

[WittyUsername]

The 2020 box office is starting off surprisingly strong. 

[kitik]

5 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

The 2020 box office is starting off surprisingly strong. 

 

Don't worry, the wide releases of the next 2 weekends look like they could do some terrible numbers.

[Valonqar]

41 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

Exactly, 

 

Movies that deal specifically with or originate specifically from the African American experience do relatively less well, because of course they would.

 

Equally evangelical movies, movies relating to country music, movies relating to American sports, Clint Eastwood films, US military and history movies, that feature American TV-specific stars like Kevin James all do relatively less well. Because they are more specifically culturally American as well.

Excellent post. The more you are culturally specific, the less understandable you get to other cultures and therefore they'll lose interest. it's perfectly normal. that's why Hollywood blockbusters are as generic as they can be so that they are understandable to everyone (for they have to return 200M+ budget). anyone can project whatever they want into those characters. It doesn't matter what main lead's complexion is but whether he/she is an easy proxy for any movie goer in any country. be it Tom Cruise or Will Smith, their characters were non-specific and therefore anyone could relate to their generic problems ( how to stop a villain from taking over the world whether he's some made up evil spy organization or zombies or renegade robots, etc). Same goes for superheroes. they are big because they have generic stories that are easily understandable to anyone. Black Panther and Aquaman are retelling of Lion King which was retelling of Hamlet but with happy ending cause Disney duh. Everyone gets that. Rightful king is cheated of the throne by his nefarious relative, how is he going to bounce back? It doesn't matter whether he wears merman costume or tribal one, the story is as old as time and exists in every culture. OTOH, to understand Get Out you need to understand very specific American socio-political landscape and you can't expect foreigners to get it any more than you can expect Americans to get a specific foreign socio-politics. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by Valonqar

[sfran43]

Jason Bourne opened around $59-$60M and finished around $161+M. A higher opening doesn't always guarantee a higher overall gross! Although I hope BBFL gets close to or even surpass $200M!🤞🏽

Edited January 19, 2020 by sfran43

[filmlover]

Bad Boys opening is just mind-boggling. Nothing really much to say but that it's a massive win for all involved.

 

Dolittle's numbers don't seem too bad initially considering the terrible reviews and how lame it looked, although it's destined to be a massive write-off for Universal. Better luck next time, RDJ.

 

The Oscar movies didn't really see much in the way of noticeable bumps but that can be attributed to pretty much all of them being on the way out of theaters except 1917. Speaking of that movie, its hold this weekend seems good considering last weekend was its opening weekend and it faced sorta direct competition for the action crowd from Bad Boys. Should have really good legs from here, especially if it really does end up winning Best Picture.

 

Jumanji still looking good for $300M while Star Wars will be hitting $500M soon, while Frozen 2 will make $475M+. Knives Out is looking at $160M+, which is insane and completely well-deserved. Just Mercy is doing fine considering it faced competition from Bad Boys and received no awards recognition.

[Krissykins]

1 hour ago, aladdino said:

doolittle doing 85m vs cats doing 27m.... LOL sure. everyone will see cats as a way bigger flop

You do know that flop means money loss Yeh? 

[The Horror of Lucas Films]

Last January finished at $812m, this January is already $663m with 11 days left, it's easily going to destroy last January.

 

Glad to see the year that everyone thought that would be the death of cinema starting on such a huge note. 

[The Horror of Lucas Films]

2 minutes ago, Krissykins said:

You do know that flop means money loss Yeh? 

 

It isn't even a competition, Dollite is a far bigger flop than CATS not only in raw money, but especially when we consider it had a far easier subject to sell than the other one. 

[Madhuvan]

6 minutes ago, The Horror of Lucas Films said:

Last January finished at $812m, this January is already $663m with 11 days left, it's easily going to destroy last January.

 

Glad to see the year that everyone thought that would be the death of cinema starting on such a huge note. 

But from March it will lag. 

Captain Marvel, US, Avengers Endgame, Aladdin, Toy Story4 are not happening this year. 

 

I don't think most of the movies will outgross Joker. 

[Jonwo]

Bad Boys for Life's OS weekend seems decent although the franchise has never been huge OS so I think Sony will be pleased with how it did. 

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

21 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

The more you are culturally specific, the less understandable you get to other cultures and therefore they'll lose interest.

 

 OTOH, to understand Get Out you need to understand very specific American socio-political landscape and you can't expect foreigners to get it any more than you can expect Americans to get a specific foreign socio-politics. 

 

The most egregious and hilarious example of all of this was a couple of years ago when it was portrayed as a "surprise" that Crazy Rich Asians flopped in China.

 

As if China had never thought about inventing either rom coms or films with Asian people in before.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Ipickthiswhiterose

[Valonqar]

2 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

The most egregious and hilarious example of all of this was a couple of years ago when it was portrayed as a "surprise" that Crazy Rich Asians flopped in China.

 

As if China had never thought about inventing either rom coms or films with Asian people in before.

I remember that. They should lurk in China Boxoffice thread more often to learn something about the market and movies they produce.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Valonqar

[baumer]

@Ipickthiswhiterose

 

Are you seriously trying to give me a lesson on horror movies and what constitutes a horror movie? I mean no offense but I'm 48 years old and my favourite horror movies are the classics of the genre like Halloween and Nightmare on Elm Street in Texas chainsaw massacre and aliens and jaws and some of the Friday the 13th and so on. 

 

I kept Hereditary off because I hated it. It was silly and stupid and didn't appeal to me in the slightest. 

 

And you're basically saying in your post that the top 10 that I make should not be based on my personal opinion? isn't that what lists are all about is writing your personal opinion? And then telling everybody why your opinion is the way that it is? I'm not writing a top 10 list based on critics or other people or box office. The top 10 list is my opinion. You're more than welcome to write your own top 10 list and write it here as well. And I'd be glad to discuss your opinions with you.

[titanic2187]

1 hour ago, VanillaSkies said:

Terrible PTA for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. 
Also, Joker was released in 854 theatres and we dint have an estimate for it, so we can assume it’s also low. 
 

while I understand the want to try and make a little extra cash on these, those theatres could have gone to current releases. Both have full DVD releases already.  parasite for instance hasn’t been released beyond 900 theatres so far. It deserves further expansion. Same for Jojo which is at its highest count so far this weekend. Even Bombshell which lost a bunch of theaters but has a solid PTA could have used some more theatres. Oh well. I guess they will both drop counts substantially next weekend. 

Those movies may have a lot of theaters in play but the number of showing each day is pretty minimal, that explain the low PTA, not due to the low occupancy rate.

 

Also, every movies deserve to be seen on big screen , as it should be. 

 

In this aspect, Disney do a great job and the best in preserving movie-going experience.   

[a2k]

JUM2 708.5 ww (excluding MLK Monday)

17 os + 9.6 dom = 26.6 ww weekend

40 os + 25 dom = 65 more for ~775 ww looks good, maybe a little more.

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

26 minutes ago, baumer said:

@Ipickthiswhiterose

Are you seriously trying to give me a lesson on horror movies and what constitutes a horror movie?

No.

 

Quote

I mean no offense but I'm 48 years old and my favourite horror movies are the classics of the genre like Halloween and Nightmare on Elm Street in Texas chainsaw massacre and aliens and jaws and some of the Friday the 13th and so on. 

Sure. I like your posts. And I'm a 37 year old and my favourite horror movies are also classics of the genre. And I write about horror on a daily basis as a PhD candidate. That's why I chose to have a discussion with you that I tried to be paintstakingly even handed about, though it has sadly been taken as some kind of attack, which certainly wasn't intended.

 

Quote

I kept Hereditary off because I hated it. It was silly and stupid and didn't appeal to me in the slightest. 

The first sentence is cool. The last statement is cool. The middle bit is a bit more questionable and represents the thing I was addressing. Because you are making an objective statement derived from your personal opinion.

 

 

Quote

And you're basically saying in your post that the top 10 that I make should not be based on my personal opinion? isn't that what lists are all about is writing your personal opinion? And then telling everybody why your opinion is the way that it is? I'm not writing a top 10 list based on critics or other people or box office. The top 10 list is my opinion.

 

No. That's why I said "It's likely that these kind of films won't get into our Top 10s." It's why I liked your Top 10 post and wrote a post complimenting you on it.

 

Quote

You're more than welcome to write your own top 10 list and write it here as well. And I'd be glad to discuss your opinions with you.

 

I already have. On the last page. You even liked the post where I did it.

 

Again. I didn't intend to be aggressive in the manner that perhaps you have taken it. Hereditary was simply an example just because it had already been brought up. I could just as easily use Mandy as an example because that's a film I had the equivalent instinctive reaction to. But I have just come to a position that dismissing horror films that take risks/put themselves out there a bit as silly and stupid (which I could say about Mandy, or anyone might and have said about Neon Demon, Hellraiser, Event Horizon, The Lighthouse and so on but people don't tend to say about hybrid thrillers like Get Out and Silence of the Lambs just like they don't say them about dramas) is something we should generally think twice about as horror fans. It was intended as a discussion point, not something attacking anyone.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Ipickthiswhiterose

[baumer]

Sorry @Ipickthiswhiterose....maybe I misread your post....sometimes things can get lost in translation.  Let me expand a bit on Hereditary.  I assume everyone has seen it by now, but when I say it is silly and stupid, I'm within my rights to say that.  One example that didn't resonate with me was when the kid drives home, his sibling loses their head in that accident and then the kid drives home and leaves the corpse in the car until the next day.  I found this to be incredibly silly....and there were about 5 or maybe 7 instances in the movie with similar kind of logic.  

 

Babadook is even more egregious.

 

But here's the thing....Friday the 13th Final Chapter is in my top ten horror films of all time and my top 50 films of all time.  I think it's pretty much a perfect horror movie, up there with Halloween and Texas.  But I also know some people think I'm crazy for thinking this and even more think the film is just trash.  But it's all personal.  I love the makeup and the Savini effects and I love Zito's keen eye to detail and Feldman's character and how innovative the deaths were and so much more.

 

But again, it's all subjective.  

 

I love horror films that take risks.  Angel Heart is one of my all time faves.  

 

I also loved Neon Demon and Hellraiser.  I think Fulci is genius and Argento isn't far behind as well.

 

So I  think you and I are on the same page, just a post that might have been misconstrued.