The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[The GOAT]

The last superhero movie with a majority female audience was the first Wonder Woman. Despite earning less than Captain Marvel Domestically, it felt like a bigger social phenomenon.

[Valonqar]

10 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

 

You can just say "MCU Barbie"

 

You wish but no. Barbie felt like something never seen before and was also very easy to copy fashionwise IRL without feeling costumy. Not the case with The Marvels. This is very much seen before and they wear standard Convention Cosplay Only uniforms like all SH. Barbie had Gentleminions type of movement going for it. 

 

16 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

To be fair to the poster, you're assuming it holds the Christmas season.

 

The only reason Black Panther 2 held in last year's Xmas season as strongly as it did is b/c Disney dumped its other November later opener, Strange World, out of theaters and onto D+.  So, it puts all its chips on keeping BP2 in theaters to let it get that funding.

 

That may or may not happen with this year's supers/animated Disney November combo.

 

I missed that fact so thanks for the reminder! 

 

17 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

Yeah, it would have to be complete trash to not end up fresh. The average RT score has increased by about 10% since the late 2010s due to the induction of social media influencers into RT, and the legitimization of "funko critics".

 

People don't like admitting this but critics give extra points to movies based on whether or not they have a "diverse cast". We saw this earlier this year with Blue Beetle and stuff like Ghostbusters 2016 and the first Captain Marvel.

 

Yep and some even put that in their blurbs. The movie is what it is (transaltion: bad) but it;'s diverse so that's good. Fresh rating. Terminator Dark World had a number of such reviews. I also remember a rare negative or semi-negative Little Women review cause the sisters were white. 

[Valencia]

55 minutes ago, Squire said:

Critics are weird. I think too many set too high of a standard for this movie. It was good. They just wanted it to be Lego Movie or old Pixar good. 

Mario is illumination and illumination makes bad movies that make $1B at the box office.

 

It’s what they do.

[YM!]

2 hours ago, ZeroHour said:

A few things probably. They're not worried about Hunger Games, they want to maximize the chances that the strikes end in time for a promo tour, and they want to stay relatively close to Thanksgiving so the film still has juice over the holidays.

I get the strike part for the promo tour, can also sell itself as big movie event since Barbenheimer (I mean Eras will be far bigger but yknow what I mean), but that idea of being closer to holidays never pans out as I doubt it’ll get space between Wonka/Aquaman/Migration and Wish will be the choice to boost from Disney for a screen. I’d rather have a 11/3 opening, 50% second weekend vs slightly inflated OW and then a 60%+ drop the next weekend. Iirc Ragnarok had slightly better legs than Wakanda, no?

[toutvabien]

4 minutes ago, The GOAT said:

The last superhero movie with a majority female audience was the first Wonder Woman. Despite earning less than Captain Marvel Domestically, it felt like a bigger social phenomenon.

Actually, it was Aquaman. Which is funny, because that has a sequel coming out a little over a month after this film. It did very similarly to Wonder Woman, demo-wise. Black Panther, Ant-Man and the Wasp and Captain Marvel had the best male-female ratio out of the Infinity Saga. Wakanda Forever built on that to the best female showing for a MCU opening (48% female) while Quantumania... not so much (39% female). I wouldn't be surprised to see The Marvels challenge Wakanda here, but we'll see. Black Widow and Eternals were still typically male-leaning.

[Valonqar]

2 minutes ago, toutvabien said:

Actually, it was Aquaman. 

 

Who could see that coming? I'm shocked, shoicked I tell you.

 

 

 

Female audience likes male eye candy and surveys show they prefer mixed cast movieas (men and women) to all female or all male cast. We can pretend that Bella drew Twilight boxoffice but it was really Edward and Jacob and the context of them fighting over audience proxy Bella that drove the popularity of that IP. Likewise, HP has always been more popular with women. What I'm saying is that hot male factor is getting underrated or entirely swept under the rug lately as a draw for women although it's as big as ever. 

 

 

[Squire]

37 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

Yeah, it would have to be complete trash to not end up fresh. The average RT score has increased by about 10% since the late 2010s due to the induction of social media influencers into RT, and the legitimization of "funko critics".

 

People don't like admitting this but critics give extra points to movies based on whether or not they have a "diverse cast". We saw this earlier this year with Blue Beetle and stuff like Ghostbusters 2016 and the first Captain Marvel.

I don’t entirely agree that diverse casts always get bonus points, but I do think far too often critics let external factors influence whether they give a movie a good or bad review. 100% agree this happened with Ghostbusters 2016, which I think was all part of Sony’s strategy in amplifying the minority of misogynists who hated the movie before it came out. 

[Avatree]

21 hours ago, ChipDerby said:

 

But why even see Quantumania then? You didn't like 6 films in a row and still decided to see it. Just weird that NOW is when you're choosing to drop out.

because I don't just give up on a franchise I'm heavily invested in just because they come out with a couple of dud films. I thought the sequel trilogy was pretty bad but I didn't give up on star wars, and thankfully now they have returned to making much better content.

[Valonqar]

25 minutes ago, Squire said:

I don’t entirely agree that diverse casts always get bonus points, but I do think far too often critics let external factors influence whether they give a movie a good or bad review. 100% agree this happened with Ghostbusters 2016, which I think was all part of Sony’s strategy in amplifying the minority of misogynists who hated the movie before it came out. 

 

they tend to go easy on movies and shows that are low quality but received diversity-based backlash or overpraise movies and shows that are just good but not really as great as reviews make them out to be. I think that overpraising BP and getting it a Picture nomination hurt the sequel cause in 4 years opinion changed that the first movie was overrated and not even the best SH that year (Spiderverse was considered the best even then while IW grew in stature) and that soured some on the whole thing. Not a major factor in audience erosion - losing Chadwick was obviously the biggest - but it added up. 

 

That said, it isn't a rule. If anyone was in a good position to get diversity-based raves that was Zhao hot off her Oscar win and yet hers was the first MCU movie that earned rotten score. It was the most diverse (Gay kiss! deaf woman! almost every race represented! Female director!) yet they hated it. So as you say it depends on external factors. 

[ChipDerby]

18 minutes ago, Avatree said:

because I don't just give up on a franchise I'm heavily invested in just because they come out with a couple of dud films. I thought the sequel trilogy was pretty bad but I didn't give up on star wars, and thankfully now they have returned to making much better content.

 

Yet you're NOT giving up on the MCU, despite their most recent offering in GOTG3 being great...

[ChipDerby]

Also, no movie gets good reviews because of the "diverse cast". That's bullshit and anyone who claims otherwise is trying to sell you something (bullshit)

[Valonqar]

4 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

Also, no movie gets good reviews because of the "diverse cast". That's bullshit and anyone who claims otherwise is trying to sell you something (bullshit)

 

Depends on the reviewer. When A Wrinkle In Time was getting bad reviews, THR or Variety argued that critics should go easy on movies made by women and minorities. The article didn't go over well - patronizing af - but it really depends from critic to critic. They don't congregate and decide to give X a pass because of this and that. It's entirely personal and some do give a pass or unearned rave for that factor. I guarantee you that LOTR:TROP would have been in its 60s on RT and Meta had it not been for diversity backlash. The show simply isn't good. But thanks to backlash its most wooden cast member got a Supporting Actor in Drama nom wth Critic;s Choice while someone worthy like Andor's Serkis and Skarsgaard or HOTD's Considine didn't. They were clearly making him up for the backlash, Likewise, the same organizaton suddenly nominated 10 Directors instead of 5 in order to include women cause they knew that if they were objectively making Top 5, it would be an all male lineup. These things happen on case to caee basis. It isn't a rule but it isn't  a BS either. 

[Spidey Freak]

 

47 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

Depends on the reviewer. When A Wrinkle In Time was getting bad reviews, THR or Variety argued that critics should go easy on movies made by women and minorities. 

 

You were talking about critics going easy on "diverse casts" (which as ChipDerby mentioned is BS as most of the Fast films, Suicide Squad etc. have shown otherwise) and now you suddenly switched to films "made" by women and minorities lmao

 

Also, those articles were compiled considering how overwhelmingly white and male the RT base at the time were, and they tended to not connect to women and minority experiences. Meryl Streep was the one who originally brought this up even before Brie.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Spidey Freak

[Bob Train]

2 hours ago, toutvabien said:

Critic attitude towards MCU movies has shifted since the release of Captain Marvel. 

No it hasn't. The movies themselves have just gotten much worse.

[SpiderByte]

Valonqar being a get woke go broke guy explains so much

[SpiderByte]

3 hours ago, Bob Train said:

Yeah, it would have to be complete trash to not end up fresh. The average RT score has increased by about 10% since the late 2010s due to the induction of social media influencers into RT, and the legitimization of "funko critics".

 

People don't like admitting this but critics give extra points to movies based on whether or not they have a "diverse cast". We saw this earlier this year with Blue Beetle and stuff like Ghostbusters 2016 and the first Captain Marvel.

I'm gonna need evidence on this alleged boost diverse movies are supposedly getting vs movies that aren't when Oppenheimer, employing basically every white man in Hollywood, is one of the biggest movies of the year 

[Bob Train]

5 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Valonqar being a get woke go broke guy explains so much

No it does not? Do you know which movie his PFP is from?

Edited September 27, 2023 by Bob Train

[Bob Train]

3 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I'm gonna need evidence on this alleged boost diverse movies are supposedly getting vs movies that aren't when Oppenheimer, employing basically every white man in Hollywood, is one of the biggest movies of the year 

Yes it does. The first Black Panther is just Aquaman but with bad VFX, yet it has an RT score 30% lower.

[Porthos]

3 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

Yes it does. The first Black Panther is just Aquaman but with bad VFX, yet it has an RT score 30% lower.

 

Gosh, it's almost as if taste is subjective or sumthin'.

 

Who would have ever guessed?

[Valonqar]

2 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

Yes it does. The first Black Panther is just Aquaman but with bad VFX, yet it has an RT score 30% lower.

 

This. It's the same story (also see first Thor, TLK) but Aquaman had better CGI and was much more fun, endlessly rewatchable and Momoa is mega charisma. Boseman was approprietly regal but supporting cast upstaged him cause the script treated his character with kid gloves. He was more interesting in CW where he was fuck Stark's rule book fuck Rogers' BFF, I'm out for revenge.