The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

People will be even more burnt out on CBMs by the time Kang Dynasty comes. Under a billion seems possible now.

[SchumacherFTW]

25 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Oh my God, they are not canceling The Avengers because of The Marvels. Come on guys, the hyperbole in here is ridiculous.

Will probably need a rework because of Majors and the stink he's left on Kang. 

[SpiderByte]

3 minutes ago, SchumacherFTW said:

Will probably need a rework because of Majors and the stink he's left on Kang. 

If they really needed to they could just recast Kang, but that wouldn't require a rewrite of the movie. Let alone canning it. Especially since there's a likely chance the strike delays push it back anyways. When Solo came out they didn't cancel Episode 9.

 

I also think people are really, really underestimating how willing everyone will be to call mulligans on basically all the strike releases 

Edited October 30, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Reed121]

3 hours ago, BadOlCatSylvester said:

Arrogance would be my guess, from both the Disney suits and Marvel alike. The period from Infinity War to Endgame was full blown Marvel fever, a time where everything with that iconic red rectangle was an instant money printer. Hell, even the unrelated Venom was a smash hit just by being connected to the Marvel brand and lucky enough to have been released right in the middle of that period. That period must have boosted their collective confidence to unrealistic levels, and facilitated the massive content overdrive we've seen since Disney+ launched. Unfortunately that must've spread Marvel thin and been to the detriment of any individual project's own merits, and now we're seeing the consequences of that in full display with Guardians 3's underwhelming opening and The Marvels' abysmal tracking, as well as the ongoing overhaul of their television arm. If you burn audiences enough times, they'll simply stop going, especially in an era where they are more fickle and critical than ever. This current saga is a lost cause, but hopefully they'll be able to rebuild after Secret Wars, assuming it still gets made.

The period from Black Panther to Endgame.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Reed121

[HummingLemon496]

Just now, Reed121 said:

The period from Black Panther to EndGame.

Oh yeah the run from Black Panther through Far From Home was absolutely legendary. $9.073 billion across 6 films, $1.513 billion average

[SpiderByte]

1 minute ago, HummingLemon496 said:

Oh yeah the run from Black Panther through Far From Home was absolutely legendary. $9.073 billion across 6 films, $1.513 billion average

I think that's really set high expectations here, which is why two 100+ weekends in one year has somehow resulted in people assuming the studio is going to be shut down and Avengers isn't getting released

[Sophia Jane]

The Marvels for Marvel is like Han Solo time for Star Wars right now,Kang will be like The Last Jedi/Rise of Skywalker,which means the box office number maybe not that bad but still bad compare with its own glory days

Edited October 30, 2023 by Sophia Jane

[Valencia]

1 hour ago, ListenHunnyUrOver said:

People will be even more burnt out on CBMs by the time Kang Dynasty comes. Under a billion seems possible now.

Not as long as Spider-Man has 90% of the screen time and is the leader.

 

If he gets pulled by Sony, then yeah.
 

They’ve got nothing.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Valencia

[SpiderByte]

Sony is not "pulling" Spider-Man. Ain't happening. Especially when Spidey 4 is another hit for them.

 

I think three plus years out from release is a bit premature to declaring Kang Dynasty an automatic failure but that's just me apparently.

Edited October 30, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Mulder]

1 hour ago, SpiderByte said:

I think that's really set high expectations here, which is why two 100+ weekends in one year has somehow resulted in people assuming the studio is going to be shut down and Avengers isn't getting released

Quantumania fell like a rock and didn't even get over 500 million worldwide. There's no way to spin that as a good result man.

[SpiderByte]

9 minutes ago, Mulder said:

Quantumania fell like a rock and didn't even get over 500 million worldwide. There's no way to spin that as a good result man.

That's still nowhere close to "end of the MCU" levels. Star Wars has cancelled who even knows how many movies and nobody's predicting they're just going to just hard reboot. As I've said before: as long as Feige works at Marvel Studios, the idea of the MCU going away isn't even worth entertaining.

 

I mean it's not rocket science, Iger has publicly said what the plan to rebuild momentum is: space out releases more (which they're very likely about to do with this next round of strikes delays), and focus on more traditional TV format for the Disney+ shows (which they've already started to do with Daredevil).

Edited October 30, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Bob Train]

1 hour ago, SpiderByte said:

I think that's really set high expectations here, which is why two 100+ weekends in one year has somehow resulted in people assuming the studio is going to be shut down and Avengers isn't getting released

 

1 hour ago, SpiderByte said:

I think that's really set high expectations here, which is why two 100+ weekends in one year has somehow resulted in people assuming the studio is going to be shut down and Avengers isn't getting released

Even in 2021-2022 the MCU was still doing great. NWH, MoM, Thor 4 opened above their predecessors. BP2 didn’t but it came close enough. Shang-Chi and Eternals still had respectable performances given COVID. Loki and WV were hits on the TV side.

 

Quantumania was supposed to set up the future of the MCU and it sucked. Now they have sequels to $150m openers tracking to  open to only $60m.

[TwoMisfits]

Speaking of advertising, Disney has gone all in on this movie.  Every football game, every baseball game, every Hulu show, and every theatrical movie from the last month has shown me this trailer - over and over again.  They are spending a ton in P&A to try to save it.  We'll see if it works.

[Kon]

41 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Sony is not "pulling" Spider-Man. Ain't happening. Especially when Spidey 4 is another hit for them.

 

I think three plus years out from release is a bit premature to declaring Kang Dynasty an automatic failure but that's just me apparently.

It's too soon to declare Kang Dynasty as a failure. That said, this movie really needs something that could attract audience.  

 

People has compared Kang Dinasty with the first Avenger movie, since the independent character movies that preceded these didn't have a big box office. However, the situations are pretty different.

 

The first Avengers movie main point of attraction was many superheroes (who have appeared in different movies) joined together in one movie, which was a really new concept at that time. I doubt that concept could benefit Kang Dinasty so much, because it has been used a lot in the last years.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Kon

[Mulder]

9 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

That's still nowhere close to "end of the MCU" levels. Star Wars has cancelled who even knows how many movies and nobody's predicting they're just going to just hard reboot. As I've said before: as long as Feige works at Marvel Studios, the idea of the MCU going away isn't even worth entertaining.

 

I mean it's not rocket science, Iger has publicly said what the plan to rebuild momentum is: space out releases more (which they're very likely about to do with this next round of strikes delays), and focus on more traditional TV format for the Disney+ shows (which they've already started to do with Daredevil).

I'm not saying the MCU's going to get cancelled tomorrow, but I think it's very clear that superhero fatigue is here and it's a matter of time. Solo was enough to destabilize SW and if the MCU has two under-500 performers in one year, yeah it'll be a big deal for them. Where that'll end up? I have no idea, but I do think the writing's on the wall at this point. 

[SpiderByte]

I think the most likely change is scaling back budgets. And that's across Disney, not just Marvel. But it's been clear for a while Iger thinks Marvel is stretched thin, but isn't planning on replacing Feige. As for cancelling projects, if it happens, I don't think it's going to be things like Blade or Avengers, it's going to be things that never got really officially announced, like Vision Quest or Nova. I could see Wonder Man getting the Daredevil treatment and being rebuilt as a multi season show, especially since they shot far less than Daredevil had when they made the call on that.

 

People compare it to the western, but a key difference between that and this (aside from churn on westerns being much much higher because they were infamously dirt cheap to make, which supehero movies are not), but for DC and Marvel "superhero" basically is a catch all for a property they own. Superman, Punisher, and Howard the Duck are all equally part of the nebulous "genre" of superhero despite them being nothing alike

Edited October 30, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Sophia Jane]

30 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I think the most likely change is scaling back budgets. And that's across Disney, not just Marvel. But it's been clear for a while Iger thinks Marvel is stretched thin, but isn't planning on replacing Feige. As for cancelling projects, if it happens, I don't think it's going to be things like Blade or Avengers, it's going to be things that never got really officially announced, like Vision Quest or Nova. I could see Wonder Man getting the Daredevil treatment and being rebuilt as a multi season show, especially since they shot far less than Daredevil had when they made the call on that.

 

People compare it to the western, but a key difference between that and this (aside from churn on westerns being much much higher because they were infamously dirt cheap to make, which supehero movies are not), but for DC and Marvel "superhero" basically is a catch all for a property they own. Superman, Punisher, and Howard the Duck are all equally part of the nebulous "genre" of superhero despite them being nothing alike

Superhero in general will gradually lost its popularity,that’s the fact.

Spider-Man,Batman and Superman are exceptions since they already maintain its popularity very very long time that almost everybody know who they are,they are just like Sherlock Holmes or Dracula,etc .will be remembered in history forever.

But MCU?

Nope.

[SpiderByte]

All this doomposting will, again, be hysterical of this movies reviews end up being decent. But jeez guys, a funeral for the entire studio is a little much. There's nothing that can't be fixed and they've announced specific plans on how they plan to do it.

Edited October 30, 2023 by SpiderByte

[YM!]

Is it crazy to say that it's true that the MCU franchise isn't dead and that Marvel still has viable use as a whole (like Spider-Man or not, there's still clear affection for Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Guardians and probably OGs like Thor and Hulk - they also have X-Men and F4 in the roster) while it's still be possible to course correct if the GA really likes the majority of the rest of the slate AND that the MCU burned a lot of goodwill these past few years (Quantumania is kind of comparable to the MCU’s JL and The Marvels is about to have drop similar to or more harsh than Shazam 2) and is quite possible if the next few movies don't hit (like if Deadpool, F4 and Kang don't hit - ie Quantumania/Eternals like reception), we could be facing a harder reboot? Is there no room for a middle ground?

Edited October 30, 2023 by YM!

[John Marston]

25 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

All this doomposting will, again, be hysterical of this movies reviews end up being decent. But jeez guys, a funeral for the entire studio is a little much. There's nothing that can't be fixed and they've announced specific plans on how they plan to do it.

 

I think Batgirling everything except for Deadpool 3, Cap 4, and FF might be the only way. Thunderbolts maybe can stay because it does have a rising star with Florence Pugh but I’d say that’s not guaranteed to be a hit at all