The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[XXRDJisDoctorDoom]

16 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

What you are saying is that no negative conversations about The Marvels should be allowed to take place here because it makes you feel bad. 

That’s not what he said and it would behoove you not to put words into other peoples comments. If you want to discuss the Marvels, discuss the Marvels. 

[interiorgatordecorator]

51 minutes ago, XXR's Eras Tour said:

 

There is discussion amongst the admin team for a dedicated MCU thread but for now, general discussions can take place in the overarching Disney thread.
 

 

 

letting such a politically charged thread become the only place to discuss the mcu in general seems like a bad idea

 

[ZattMurdock]

50 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

What you are saying is that no negative conversations about The Marvels should be allowed to take place here because it makes you feel bad. 

Actually, no. I welcome and engage with that. I’m talking about what clutters the thread, I do my best to not engage with people that clearly aren’t posting in good faith. I know that you have a bad misconception of me and I’m aware that I’ve played a role in that. 
 

What I’m talking about is the constant bickering and conversations that go back and forth over the same thing. There was a time that leaks from Reddit and shit like that was flat out forbidden or at very least heavily despised, that’s a whole separate issue that I don’t even dare to ask to be tackled because it has become so pervasive and it’s everywhere, I strongly believe that’s the major issue not only with MCU films, but blockbusters films in general.

 

What I’m talking about is that if every day I went to let’s say KOTFM’s message thread talk about my grievances with that film, I’d be rightfully attacked. I don’t like that, so I don’t do it. I kinda follow the same rules that BOT used to have: whenever I have a fundamental issue with a film, I usually say my piece once on the Weekend thread and I never mention again. It isn’t just that I think it’s a waste of my time, I don’t want to poison the well of the conversation.
 

You don’t see people daily making posts about KOTFM really needing to be a tv show, made by someone else and etc. What I try to engage when I talk about a film that interests me isn’t  if it’s positive or negative, it’s the current topic of the day. As long as it isn’t repetitive and it’s a film I’ve an interest on, I engage with it.

 

Edit: my autocorrect is killing me.

Edited November 2, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[XXRDJisDoctorDoom]

33 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

If I can once again suggest, just bring back the franchise wars thread.

The suggestion was brought to the attention of the admins a while back and they are vehemently against it. That thread ended up being a cesspool of degradation for people to be assholes to each other and it attracted a lot of troll characters that we don’t need or want returning.

 

[SaltyPistola]

28 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

If I can once again suggest, just bring back the franchise wars thread. I like the idea of Marvel, DC, Star Wars and etc having their own threads, but then there will always be something else. The problem isn’t even really talking about other MCU films, comparing with other films can be healthy. It’s the constant referendum if the MCU is dying day in and day out. DC films faced massive bombs and most people here are enthusiastic for what DCU can do with Gunn as the president of DC Studios.

 

I’m just saying that if people need to make a referendum on the MCU’s existence, let’s not pretend that started here with The Marvels thread. I have my personal grievances with Aquaman 2 but I don’t even talk about that film, neither I take please if it bombs. When we had rules in place against poison the well derails, I strongly believe threads had a much more healthier pace, regardless if the talk was negative. I mean, I was here during TASM2 and survived the experience, that was a film that it truly made me feel bad when it came out and it was bad.
 

Let people that want to constantly have a back and forth about how much your favorite franchise suck have their own place to scream into the void, that could be helpful to all the other franchises as well.

I'm not sure why people keep pushing the idea that MCU discussion needs to syphoned off or snuffed out as soon as it gets a big negative. The MCU is/was the biggest and most popular film franchise of all time, so all threads related to it will bring a lot of eyes. More people = more critics. That's just how it works. And while yes, there are some people acting in bad faith here, most people are either fans not happy with the state of things or just people morbidly curious about the biggest box office draw of the last 20 years stumbling and collapsing so rapidly. The Marvels flopping clearly marks the end of the MCU that once was, so of course the past and future are going to be discussed thoroughly. This is unprecedented territory we haven't been in since 2008. 

 

Believe me, I am (Was? who knows anymore) a huge MCU fan, but when things are looking dire for a franchise or film, the conversations following will naturally follow suit. Why stick around in these threads man? I don't think you're gong to get what you want from them, it's clearly just bumming you out. 

[TheFlatLannister]

Not having a dedicated thread for the most successful box office movie franchise in history, on a box office site, just feels wrong...

[ZattMurdock]

4 minutes ago, XXR's Eras Tour said:

The suggestion was brought to the attention of the admins a while back and they are vehemently against it. That thread ended up being a cesspool of degradation for people to be assholes to each other and it attracted a lot of troll characters that we don’t need or want returning.

 

I can understand that. No idea what happened though, I grew out of those threads long before their were over. I think that isolated threads can be beneficial if we can keep the more general MCU / franchise ‘x’ talks at a general thread. We don’t need every MCU thread to be about Quantumania, or every DC thread to be about Flash or every thread about Star Wars be about TROS, despite the latter being a low key guilty pleasure of mine.

[WorkingonaName]

Anarchy thread

[MysteryMovieMogul]

I understand all the frustrations with the thread. It's because of which groups will be bolstered by The Marvels doing badly. I mean, we know Disney and Marvel are both throwing this franchise under the bus, not that they really have any other choice, but essentially they're giving the bad faith YouTuber crowd all the ammo they need. Like, willingly handing the ammo over to them.

Edited November 2, 2023 by MysteryMovieMogul

[ZattMurdock]

2 minutes ago, TheFlatLannister said:

Not having a dedicated thread for the most successful box office movie franchise in history, on a box office site, just feels wrong...

I think you can keep up to three, so people don’t get special treatment. One for Star Wars (despite who knows when we get the next film), one for DC and other for the MCU. It can work.

 

8 minutes ago, SaltyPistola said:

I'm not sure why people keep pushing the idea that MCU discussion needs to syphoned off or snuffed out as soon as it gets a big negative. The MCU is/was the biggest and most popular film franchise of all time, so all threads related to it will bring a lot of eyes. More people = more critics. That's just how it works. And while yes, there are some people acting in bad faith here, most people are either fans not happy with the state of things or just people morbidly curious about the biggest box office draw of the last 20 years stumbling and collapsing so rapidly. The Marvels flopping clearly marks the end of the MCU that once was, so of course the past and future are going to be discussed thoroughly. This is unprecedented territory we haven't been in since 2008. 

 

Believe me, I am (Was? who knows anymore) a huge MCU fan, but when things are looking dire for a franchise or film, the conversations following will naturally follow suit. Why stick around in these threads man? I don't think you're gong to get what you want from them, it's clearly just bumming you out. 

I am the king of the derail. I can start talking to you and veer into a path on how Monica Rambeau was actually my Captain Marvel growing up and how I actually liked Carol Danvers a lot more than Iron Man as a kid if anything because she used to hang around the X-Men a lot, I can go into detours about how Love and Thunder and Wakanda Forever hit me at a personal level.

 

I don’t think it’s healthy - or that it makes sense for that matter - to claim that the MCU is "collapsing and stumbling" so rapidly every day, all day, on every thread. DC has stumble and got back up again time and time again, and we didn’t do that here. Spider-Man: No Way Home was less than 2 years ago, Guardians Vol. 3 came out this year and it’s a clearly beloved film, there is a palpable hype for Deadpool 3. If The Marvels bombs, it bombs. We will talk extensively and throughly about that. We will have What want wrong threads for it. And if it doesn’t bomb, we will talk about that as well, regardless of the outcome, we’re close now.

 

My point is, you can discuss everything you want, but threads for a film kinda need to be a thread for a film. The talk about "Marvel’s decline" didn’t start here with The Marvels, neither after Endgame. It has always been around. 
 

I think it’s a valid discussion to have, but some people just want to talk about the film, do you know what I mean? If every thread about the MCU is a referendum to MCU’s existence, imagine if we applied that to all the other franchises. It poisons the discussion and we keep going in circles. With a thread to talk the MCU in general, I can happily discuss the MCU as a whole when I feel like it and go into more specifics with the threads focusing on each film.

[Mojoguy]

25 minutes ago, WorkingonaName said:

Anarchy thread

This topic will keep spinning its wheels until we get actual data like preview/day numbers and reviews. With Dis holding onto reviews until 2 days before the release, Disney seems to enjoy chaos.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Mojoguy

[filmlover]

16 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

I understand all the frustrations with the thread. It's because of which groups will be bolstered by The Marvels doing badly. I mean, we know Disney and Marvel are both throwing this franchise under the bus, not that they really have any other choice, but essentially they're giving the bad faith YouTuber crowd all the ammo they need. Like, willingly handing the ammo over to them.

This, more than anything else.

 

These clowns who wallow in misery (and make money via clicks and ads while doing so) and their no less pathetic followers should in no way feel validated for their obnoxious behavior.

[Sckathian]

2 hours ago, Blaze Heatnix said:

So, is Nia DaCosta proud of her work in The Marvels? Because the movie gets released in 8 days and she has barely talked about it.

 

Once the movie gets released, is she gonna tweet anything about having a better version 1 year ago? I've read that before. Can't wait for it.

 

 

I think the issue is what of her actual creative skill will be seen on film and what will be just Marvel doctrine. For their output Marvel have a shit director relationship, I think cynically they are going for people ticking social boxes (they are good directors and I will get to this) but we know the film is half built by the time many are onboarded.

 

Increasingly Marvel are targeting directors who are young and up/coming, but who have they actually kept on for a follow up film? Spoke earlier about being a Doctor Who film and I can’t say impress how important a director can be. ]

 

These are good directors but I think they are also fresh and Marvel are slightly using them. They make a good product but Marvel bring them in just to make the film they already have a storyboard and have started CG on. 
 

Like with their TV, I think Marvel need to change their approach to organisation of the films and give more unique creative voices. This is not hard. GotG already provides it, and proves that you can still tie it to the general MCU.

 

I don’t think a director show runner is an insane idea to build for several franchises and then have a head show runner for the Avenger films.

[ZattMurdock]

6 minutes ago, Mojoguy said:

This topic will keep spinning its wheels until we get actual data like preview/day numbers and reviews. With Dis holding onto reviews until 2 days before the release, Disney seems to enjoy chaos.

They are thankfully close. I’m just savvy enough to know that unless something changes, and I hope the board go ahead with a dedicated thread for the franchise as a whole, Deadpool 3 and the next MCU thread will just get hijacked by the same conversations over and over again. It’s just not good for those following these films that want to have a good conversation about them.5 days until  the first reactions.

[John Marston]

So this movie cost 250m but looks like a bad Disney channel movie. Shameful 

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, Sckathian said:

I think the issue is what of her actual creative skill will be seen on film and what will be just Marvel doctrine. For their output Marvel have a shit director relationship, I think cynically they are going for people ticking social boxes (they are good directors and I will get to this) but we know the film is half built by the time many are onboarded.

 

Increasingly Marvel are targeting directors who are young and up/coming, but who have they actually kept on for a follow up film? Spoke earlier about being a Doctor Who film and I can’t say impress how important a director can be. ]

 

These are good directors but I think they are also fresh and Marvel are slightly using them. They make a good product but Marvel bring them in just to make the film they already have a storyboard and have started CG on. 
 

Like with their TV, I think Marvel need to change their approach to organisation of the films and give more unique creative voices. This is not hard. GotG already provides it, and proves that you can still tie it to the general MCU.

 

I don’t think a director show runner is an insane idea to build for several franchises and then have a head show runner for the Avenger films.

Can we all just agree that if the film gets good reviews and people dig it, people will stop with this shit and credit her for her work. Call me absolutely insane, but I do think that this film has a strong shot of being good. Great even, for what it actually is. That’s all I ask. Feel free to blame Marvel and Feige if it’s trash. DaCosta has already proved herself with Candyman, if she delivers with The Marvels, she deserves the acknowledgment.

[Sckathian]

Just now, ZattMurdock said:

Can we all just agree that if the film gets good reviews and people dig it, people will stop with this shit and credit her for her work. Call me absolutely insane, but I do think that this film has a strong shot of being good. Great even, for what it actually is. That’s all I ask. Feel free to blame Marvel and Feige if it’s trash. DaCosta has already proved herself with Candyman, if she delivers with The Marvels, she deserves the acknowledgment.

Candyman is well shot but it’s a mess of a film but that is a separate issue.

 

With the MCU we know for a fact it’s extremely top down. It’s just a different beast, and that’s s problem if people involved are then not out talking about the film.
 

I would like a more creative lead MCU but everything we know that does not exist.

[SchumacherFTW]

3 minutes ago, Sckathian said:

Candyman is well shot but it’s a mess of a film but that is a separate issue.

 

With the MCU we know for a fact it’s extremely top down. It’s just a different beast, and that’s s problem if people involved are then not out talking about the film.
 

I would like a more creative lead MCU but everything we know that does not exist.

Her direction was pretty much all I liked about Candyman. It really is a shame how marvel don't let these creative voices fly unless it's a specific case, but I guess that's just their mo for uniformity. I don't agree with it given its a very TV method but that's their decision, and I highly doubt much is going to sway them from it. 

[ZattMurdock]

Ha. And just like that, I bear somewhat cautiously positive news.
 

So yeah, do you want the good news? We have our official first ‘cryptic positive reactIon’ about The Marvels:

 

 

She is an actual film critic in Argentina. I can vouch that she isn’t joking. Pros (not for me really): She throughly disliked She-Hulk, which I love. Cons: she’s an obvious Captain Marvel super fan.

 

What I’m saying is: press is likely getting to see this week. We might hear some whispers here and there, but actual reactions from RT critics only Nov 8, 12am ET. 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[BOfficeStats]

At this point it might have been a better decision for Marvel to have kept the release date at July 28 and dumped it with limited marketing.

 

They could have easily blamed Barbenheimer and the strikes to save face and they would have saved some money.

Edited November 2, 2023 by BOfficeStats