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Coronavirus | COVID-19 | Global Pandemic | PLEASE KEEP DISCUSSION TO THIS THREAD

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5 hours ago, excel1 said:

I think society was/is harder and more toughened than many admit. In these lockdowns areas, the VAST majority of people have basically dropped everything and are complying with the rules which is no small feat.

 

Many of those who dwell only on Twitter and the Internet are fools whose perception of the world is far different from reality. Their habit of focusing exclusively on the behavior/opinions of a tiny minority of people and using those takeaways to make generalizations about the entirety fo the region and use them as the basis of their core beliefs is pathetic.

 

Even yesterday, I am dreading "OMG PEOPLE IN SF AND FLORIDAS ARE SO DUMB, DID YOU SEE THEM OUTSIDE?!?!". There's how many million people in Florida? But wait, lets focus on the few thousand mostly TOURISTS our at the beach as opposed the 99.999% following the rules.

 

In the real world, I can't stand these people, I won't hire these people, they're not only terrible for morale but most often their panic-friendly mentality causes far more problems than it solves. 

It only takes ONE person to infect 20. Extrapolate please. And a few thousand tourists? Really? You mean on Daytona Beach alone, right? Rules? There was no shutdown in Florida.

 

Even then, 99% of the people in Florida are NOT "following the rules". My (rich, deluded) sister, brother-in-law, niece and nephew actually traveled from here in Ohio to Florida for a 2 week vacation. (Private beach and condo complex.) My sister flat out told my mom how shocked she was to see all the older local residents out together in droves, and those "50% capacity" restaurants still bustling.

 

I maintain that you are simply trolling, and need to be banned from this thread.

Edited by PDC1987
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4 hours ago, excel1 said:

The other dynamic here is simply that this group of people is pretty much always there no matter. Many of them simply do not care to be fiscally responsible. That's fine too if this is what makes them happy and enjoy life - there is more to living than building a networth. But it Is not necessarily a sign of a vulnerable economy than it is a sign that the financially liberal/unintelligent faction of society represents a significant number off people. This group also doesn't require much money to be stabilized. 

 

What is more important is whether the overall strength of EVERYONE - including the "billionaire class" - can carry this lesser faction until things return to normal. Seems right now there is no reason this wouldn't be the case. 

Yeah, you need to go.

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10 minutes ago, AndyLL said:

@Lordmandeep has been thread banned for 24 hours.

 

20 minutes ago, AndyLL said:

What's your point?

 

18 minutes ago, Eric Lightfoot said:

The racism being throttled at Asians and Chinese is a terrible symptom to COVID, so yeah, people are going to talk about it, and will want to confront it, along with other issues COVID has or will cause.

 

Hate to break it you mates , but the real world is not a politically correct internet forum.
The event you talk here about the world , real world... it is filled with prejudice and biases sometimes based fear on very very real events not just some surge of primal fear of ignorant people.
 

And if the people in west took bunch of accurate but not so accurate phrases THAT seriously then racism would've ended by now and America would actually become great

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My country, Indonesia is very worrying. The cases count maybe still not as alarming as other countries but the death counts sure does. We have 450 positive cases so far but already recorded 38 deaths representing 8.4% death rate. Probably top 3 or 2 death rate right now and this still in the early stage where the numbers ( hopefully not ) still don’t fully blow up. I’m afraid if that actually happens , medical supplies and hospital would be overwhelmed thus making the death percentage go higher just like what Iran and Italy experienced.

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40 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

That person on another forum is wrong. Did you know 50% percent of the hospitalized are young previously healthy people? Yeah, and if enough people get hospitalized, it doesn't matter your age: what happens in Italy will happen here where not enough beds are available and you have to choose who dies painfully and who might live. And a lot of people who die In Italy are young, previously healthy.

 

Now think about this: say a single father in his 40s with three kids gets a heart attack. It takes 90 minutes for the ambulance to reach him because there's a huge backlog due to the coronavirus. He gets to the hospital and all the beds are taken by people who need respirators for the coronavirus. Under normal circumstances, he's saved. Under the pandemic, he might not have died due to the Coronavirus, but he's dead because of it. You won't see him in the death count though. 'Cause it's technically the heart attack that killed him, turned his three kids orphans (and if they don't have family, they likely go to a system that won't be able to handle the huge amount of kids who won't have families anymore coming in).

 

So even if the death count is 500k with just coronavirus, if we spread out the deaths, we can save more lives than just the infected. And it's not "people who should be dying any day". It's normal healthy young people dying in Italy. It's normal healthy young people who will be dying in the US too. There was a 29-year old otherwise completely healthy doctor in China who died from this. 

 

But since you are all about making cold calculus that doesn't take into account that God made us and that life is sacred and is thus paramount, since you have decided money is your God with that post, I ask you: do you save a 24-year old college graduate looking for their first job or a 55-year old doctor who might save other lives but has less life ahead of him? Since all you care about is avoiding a recession, that's the kind of question you want doctors to ask.

 

And what if you decide to say "fuck it" let's avoid the recession and in a month or two the millions (and yes the death count would reach over a million) who died could have been saved because we get enough medicine to treat the symptoms and save people? 

 

The goal here should be to save as many people as possible while buying as much time as possible. The goal here should be to try to lessen the burden on our medical system as much as possible. As for the economy? Well, the government here is gonna have to step in and help out businesses and individuals. But we should not prioritize McDonalds's bottom line over a single human life. 'Cause money is man-made. Human life is God-granted. And right now is a trying time but we should not forget: life remains sacred.

What is the criteria for being healthy in this situation?

Edited by ThePhasmid
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I mean, is it possible that the case-death rate is lower than we think, just because we don't have the testing to see exactly how many people really have it? I mean, we could have 2x the # of cases than we know about, so theoretically, could the death rate really be at 2% rather than 4%? 

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Another "long term" reason you want to spread this out that benefits the young...

 

You don't want to destroy your healthcare system...you don't want good docs quitting left and right (or worse, dying left and right).

 

We already don't have enough doctors and nurses for our country's size...and now you'd want to risk what we do have over money?  We lose the medical, we lose the country anyway b/c it would take DECADES to recruit and retrain enough professionals to fill a gap we'd cause b/c of our own stupidity and selfishness.

 

People keep having trouble seeing the mid and long term and keep focusing on how much this sucks in the short term...you REALLY have no idea how much this could suck long term if we f&ck up this short term b/c reasons...

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There seems to be a discussion about whether you could, say, just let the virus wave over us and accept a certain percentage of dead (the actual estimate for countries with a well-developed health care is about 0,5%) to avoid completely wrecking the economy.

 

Now, the idea per se isn't completely absurd, as in fact Covid-19 tagets mainly people who have not that many years left anyway - old people, preferably with health issues, or, if young, then with serious health issues. (Here in Austria the youngest dead was 27 I think but was a borderline diabetic). If those victimes would die peacefully in their beds, you would still be in a very difficult position from an ethical POV but it would be workable from the economic and even, given the right spin, politic POV, I'd say.

 

BUT. Covid-19 victims don't die peacefully in their beds. They all develop serious lung problems and they all need intensive care and ventilators.

 

THEREFORE: Going that way would lead to all our hospitals and IC beds very quickly reaching their limits and then overshooting them. Which would mean, as a consequence, that the current estimate of a 0,5% mortality will not be valid any longer as you can't save more than a few % of the ones needing IC. Plus, suffocating isn't a nice death; condemning hundreds of thousands of people to suffocate will lead to serious trouble with families plus puts an enormous strain on the nurses and doctors who have to decide who gets ventilated and who not (see Italy).

 

No, just letting the wave wash over us (the "herd immunity" discussion) is not a real option. We HAVE to flatten the rate of infections.

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12 minutes ago, NamakFiskKa said:

 

 

 

Hate to break it you mates , but the real world is not a politically correct internet forum.
The event you talk here about the world , real world... it is filled with prejudice and biases sometimes based fear on very very real events not just some surge of primal fear of ignorant people.
 

And if the people in west took bunch of accurate but not so accurate phrases THAT seriously then racism would've ended by now and America would actually become great

Bigotry being popular doesn't excuse it. It will rightfully be censored here, as previously stated.

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1 hour ago, doublejack said:

 

The data collected here shows we're well on the way. Rate if increase is already showing big daily increases. If nothing changes and the tests are available, we're over 150k confirmed cases by the 28th. It will take way more extreme lockdown measures to avoid this fate, and even that may not be enough. The damage is done.

 

 

That would require

 

3-4k daily increases everr single day for 7 days straight. That would suck

 

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10 minutes ago, ThePhasmid said:

What is the criteria for being healthy in this situation?

 

Normal healthy. Maybe they have allergies but other than that nothing pops up in their physical. 

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4 minutes ago, DAJK said:

I mean, is it possible that the case-death rate is lower than we think, just because we don't have the testing to see exactly how many people really have it? I mean, we could have 2x the # of cases than we know about, so theoretically, could the death rate really be at 2% rather than 4%? 

Yes and it probably is even smaller than that. Look at the death rates of countries that test A LOT: Germany (0.37%), Austria (0.27%) and even South Korea (1.1%)

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3 minutes ago, IndustriousAngel said:

There seems to be a discussion about whether you could, say, just let the virus wave over us and accept a certain percentage of dead (the actual estimate for countries with a well-developed health care is about 0,5%) to avoid completely wrecking the economy.

 

Now, the idea per se isn't completely absurd, as in fact Covid-19 tagets mainly people who have not that many years left anyway - old people, preferably with health issues, or, if young, then with serious health issues. (Here in Austria the youngest dead was 27 I think but was a borderline diabetic). If those victimes would die peacefully in their beds, you would still be in a very difficult position from an ethical POV but it would be workable from the economic and even, given the right spin, politic POV, I'd say.

 

BUT. Covid-19 victims don't die peacefully in their beds. They all develop serious lung problems and they all need intensive care and ventilators.

 

THEREFORE: Going that way would lead to all our hospitals and IC beds very quickly reaching their limits and then overshooting them. Which would mean, as a consequence, that the current estimate of a 0,5% mortality will not be valid any longer as you can't save more than a few % of the ones needing IC. Plus, suffocating isn't a nice death; condemning hundreds of thousands of people to suffocate will lead to serious trouble with families plus puts an enormous strain on the nurses and doctors who have to decide who gets ventilated and who not (see Italy).

 

No, just letting the wave wash over us (the "herd immunity" discussion) is not a real option. We HAVE to flatten the rate of infections.

 

Not to mention all the young people who survive but suddenly have their life permanently affected by scarred lungs. 

 

Some people won't just get over it. It will impact them their whole life. 

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2 hours ago, AndyLL said:

This thread is a central place to give status, information/actions and news on the Covid 19 virus; not to shame/accuse/point fingers and any one country/race.

 

So i guess if someone mentions that is the chinese government mostly at fault for this, he will banned and silenced under the pretext of "not to shame/accuse/point fingers". But if your post is about "shame/accuse/point finger" at the american government, you won't be banned, you will be congratulated. It's funny how the double standard works. And the chinese government is not a race, is a political entity like any other political entities that must be held responsible for their actions. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Marcus Cato said:

So i guess if someone mentions that is the chinese government mostly at fault for this, he will banned and silenced under the pretext of "not to shame/accuse/point fingers". But if your post is about "shame/accuse/point finger" at the american government, you won't be banned, you will be congratulated. It's funny how the double standard works. And the chinese government is not a race, is a political entity like any other political entities that must be held responsible for their actions. 

 

 

Maybe we could all get agreement if we just call it the Xi Jinping virus (I kid, I kid...maybe...I mean, the guy has only proclaimed himself president for life...so in that role, maybe he could take a little of the blame:)...https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-43361276

Edited by TwoMisfits
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33 minutes ago, DAJK said:

I mean, is it possible that the case-death rate is lower than we think, just because we don't have the testing to see exactly how many people really have it? I mean, we could have 2x the # of cases than we know about, so theoretically, could the death rate really be at 2% rather than 4%? 

that's why the best guess might be South Korea's rate, which is a little over 1%.

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