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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, MrGlass2 said:

No the jury has decided, "herd immunity" was a stupid strategy from the beginning: see the UK. They were saying the exact same thing as Sweden three weeks ago.

It is not like the UK did tried it, saw that it failed and started to try something else.

 

It is a politically suicidal strategy among most population, see the UK that is true.

 

But the jury is still on, was much more of what is the best for you.

 

To make a bad analogy, imagine everyone in the world get COVID tomorrow, you just have to stay 10 days at home (and if domestic cats are not reservoir of anything of the sorts) and then you can get out and it is impossible for you to get it.

 

The jury is still on if you prefer your neighboring country to flatten the curve and have a COVID epidemy going on for year's and year's (or if a good vaccin finally arrived) or try to get over it more quickly, they will suffer the consequence of their healthcare getting a spike, but for you it could be better like that no ?

Edited by Barnack
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8 minutes ago, Barnack said:

It is not like the UK did tried it, saw that it failed and started to try something else.

 

It is a politically suicidal strategy among most population, see the UK that is true.

 

But the jury is still on, was much more of what is the best for you.

 

To make a bad analogy, imagine everyone in the world get COVID tomorrow, you just have to stay 10 days at home (and if domestic cats are not reservoir of anything of the sorts) and then you can get out and it is impossible for you to get it.

 

The jury is still on if you prefer your neighboring country to flatten the curve and have a COVID epidemy going on for year's and year's (or if a good vaccin finally arrived) or try to get over it more quickly, they will suffer the consequence of their healthcare getting a spike, but for you it could be better like that no ?

Technically "flattening the curve" is still a herd immunity strategy.

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22 hours ago, DeeCee said:

Sun 8pm: +127


'Stabilisation' in NSW, with 127 new cases
NSW Chief Health Officer Kerry Chant has said 127 cases of COVID-19 have been confirmed as of 8pm yesterday.

That comes after there were 174 new cases announced yesterday (from Saturday's numbers), and 212 the day before.

Dr Chant said it was “pleasing we’ve seen a stabilisation of case numbers” but it’s the long term trend that is important.

There are now 1791 cases of COVID-19 in NSW. Of these, 1185 have been overseas acquired.

Twenty-six COVID-19 patients are in ICU, with 13 on ventilators.

Mon 8pm: +149
Tue 8pm: +211
Wed 8pm: +190
Thu 8pm: +186
Fri 8pm: +212

Sat 8pm: +174

Sun 8pm: +127

Mon 8pm: +114

 

There are now 2032 COVID-19 cases in NSW, with 114 new cases overnight.

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian said sweeping new powers to stop people leaving their home without a reasonable excuse would help to slow the spread of coronavirus, warning it is "too early to make the assessment that we have spread the curve".

"Remain vigilant, do not look at the daily numbers each day," Ms Berejiklian said, in light of the state's daily total of new cases declining. "This is serious, we are at a serious stage of the virus."

NSW Chief Health Officer Dr Kerry Chant said the drop in numbers comes as fewer tests are being done.

"What is concern to all of us is that unknown level of community transmission ... if people don't have symptoms," Ms Berejiklian said.

"That's the real threat: people walking around without symptoms while they have this disease. That's why it is important to assume that they have it, and to act like they have it."

There are 164 people in hospital in the state, including 35 in ICU, with 16 on ventilators.

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/coronavirus-updates-live-global-covid-19-cases-surpass-737-000-nsw-begins-enforcement-of-scott-morrison-s-social-gathering-restrictions-20200330-p54fg5.html

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Barnack said:

The jury is still on if you prefer your neighboring country to flatten the curve and have a COVID epidemy going on for year's and year's (or if a good vaccin finally arrived) or try to get over it more quickly, they will suffer the consequence of their healthcare getting a spike, but for you it could be better like that no ?

That is the "reopen the economy quickly" fantasy and no, it is not better for you to destroy the health care system and actually see 2% of the population of your country die. Because it is not going to work in Sweden, there is no point in imagining side benefits for their neighbors. 

Edited by MrGlass2

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, MrGlass2 said:

That is the "reopen the economy quickly" fantasy and no, it is not better for you to destroy the health care system and actually see 2% of the population of your country die. Because it is not going to work in Sweden, there is no point in imagining side benefits for their neighbors. 

Not sure I understand your answer, we are talking if it is good or bad for Norway/Denmark point of view here.

 

How do we know if this is not going to work for Sweden (that how we got rid of the spanish flu being a big deal I am not sure why it would not do the same here), isn't herd immunity the strategy most country on Earth is going for ? The only difference being how fast we reach it (and if a vaccine will help us boost herd immunity quickly at some point still a big unknown)?

 

Do we still have hope for a SARS scenario to remove COVID from earth by completely removing human to human transmission ? Seem the chance for doing this has long pass.

Edited by Barnack

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, misafeco said:

No, it's not.

 

- Rule by decree - This was already in effect, the government announced a bunch of restrictions without passing it through the Parlament. Makes sense in a state of emergency, there is no time to waste.

- Parliament suspended - this is an outright lie

- No elections - the next general elections are in 2022. Until then there are only local elections in case a representative dies or quits.

- Spreading fake news + rumors: up to 5 yrs in prison - they should start with the author of this tweet (just kidding :P)

- Leaving quarantine: up to 8 yrs in prison - I totally agree with this.

All of these points were also supported by the opposition parties by the way.

The only remaining point of discussion was the time period. The opposition parties wanted a 90-day validity which could be extended with another vote. The Parlament still has the right to withdraw the state of emergency, so it's more or less the same.


I'm certainly not going to attempt to Hungary-splain your what's apparently your own country, but out of sincere curiosity: what's your opinion of Viktor Orban in general? Because the view from here isn't good, and hasn't been for a long time.

 

 

 

Edited by Hatebox
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6 minutes ago, Hatebox said:


I'm certainly not going to attempt Hungary-splain your what's apparently your own country, but out of sincere curiosity: what's your opinion of Dear Leader Viktor Orban in general? Because the view from here isn't good, and hasn't been for a long time.

 

 

 

fify

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

fify

His post being liked by the board's most overt Trump fan is certainly ominous, but I'm trying to be open-minded! :lol:

 

 

Edited by Hatebox
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Please please please tell me the context made that better.

 

NARRATOR: The context did not make it better:

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Barnack said:

 

How do we know if this is not going to work for Sweden, isn't herd immunity the strategy most country on Earth is going for ? The only difference being how fast we reach it (and if a vaccine will help us boost herd immunity quickly at some point still a big unknown)?

It is the long term natural "solution" if no vaccine is found in time. Since it is a novel virus, it is risky to rely on it since we don't know yet how long people remain immune after recovery. And even if it works, many people would die especially the elderly.

 

What has failed very badly is to explicitly or implicitly promote a "herd immunity" strategy to let the virus infect a steady number of people. The coronavirus is very contagious, it doesn't need any help to spread though the population. And without at least a semi-lockdown, it will overwhelm the health care system quickly - that is now proven.

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1 hour ago, dudalb said:

Yeah, I got a feeling's that Sweden's reputation as being one of the best ran countires in Europe is going to take a big blow.

Sweden and Mexico are proof that Left Wing  governments can be just as stupid as Right Wing Governments when it comes of the virus.

Our government hasn't been very left-wing for a long time.

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50 minutes ago, AndyK said:

Technically "flattening the curve" is still a herd immunity strategy.

 

The main thrust of flattening the curve is slowing the spread so that hospital infrastructure isn't overwhelmed. It's not much about herd immunity at all except perhaps at the very end, when herd immunity plus vaccines and/or effective treatments come into play.

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9 minutes ago, Plain Old Tele said:

 

The main thrust of flattening the curve is slowing the spread so that hospital infrastructure isn't overwhelmed. It's not much about herd immunity at all except perhaps at the very end, when herd immunity plus vaccines and/or effective treatments come into play.

Well herd immunity is always at the very end no ?

 

Flattening the curve is trying to reach it without having your system to much overcrowded at any point (and making the bet that has time goes treatment get better has well, reducing death that way as well)

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27 minutes ago, MrGlass2 said:

And even if it works, many people would die especially the elderly

Are they not trying to not expose them in those strategy (to me that sound rather impossible for a lot of them, like those in nursing home you need to protect everyone that work there and after a while how do you do that without having everyone social distancing, maybe I do not understand their plan and even just the elderly in general how are they supposed to get groceries ?), anyway if Japan/Sweden stay their course, maybe we will be able to compare for this one and be better prepared for the next one, a variety of strategy would have that part of nice.

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3 hours ago, Killimano3 said:

So turns out as a fast food cashier I am essential to society! Without me the whole world would collapse into anarchy

Unless you work for Mcdonalds 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hatebox said:

His post being liked by the board's most overt Trump fan is certainly ominous, but I'm trying to be open-minded! :lol:

 

 

See, it's exactly this condescending attitude that doesn't win you any favors. I think we know better what's going on in our own east-european countries. He wrote a correct depiction of the situation in Hungary and you just mocked him for that.

Edited by Marcus Cato
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Rather large jump in the daily US death toll just now, making it worst day yet. 565, with a little over an hour to go on the counter.

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Little pieces of good news.

First, just released study on the mortality rate for COVID-19 has it lower than previous analyses (as it tries to take into account asymptomatic cases).

it puts the mortality rate at 0.66%. Much better than the 1.4% before. But still much higher than the 0.1% for seasonal flu.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/health/coronavirus-lower-death-rate/index.html

 

Also, social distancing appears to be working in King Co Washington. Study shows the effective reproduction number (avg number of new transmissions from each infected person) going from 2.7 in late February to 1.4 by March 18th.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/health/coronavirus-lower-death-rate/index.html

 

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1 hour ago, Porthos said:

 

Please please please tell me the context made that better.

 

NARRATOR: The context did not make it better:

 

 

 

To be fair, I watched the new conference today (although shut it off after this exchange), and it was an expected reaction from an expected question.  Everyone knows, both his supporters and detractors, that Trump is thin-skinned...like really thin-skinned.  So, after many pleasant and informative questions from reporters of all stripes (most which Trump passed off to be handled by the docs - which is why I was watching), the reporter which elicited this response decided that rather than asking a question, he would pretty much give a run down of Trump's old "the virus is nothing" quotes from late Feb/early March...and then Trump reacted the way he always does.  It was unhelpful by the reporter and unhelpful by Trump...and it really was just feeding the 24 hour news cycle... and it's a shame it's gonna lead the news cycle vs the news about the ventilators getting made en masse and now plans for those ventilators to eventually start heading to Europe once we get fully geared up here...

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56 minutes ago, Barnack said:

anyway if Japan/Sweden stay their course, maybe we will be able to compare for this one and be better prepared for the next one, a variety of strategy would have that part of nice.

Japan? No, just no.

 

Here is a list of the countries that explicitly tried the so-called "herd immunity strategy": the UK (failed), Sweden (TBD) and the Netherlands (failed):

 

Quote

In a national address to the Dutch nation on Monday, March 16th, Prime Minister Mark Rutte said his country would aim to develop immunity to the novel coronavirus among its population by allowing large numbers to contract the illness at a controlled pace.

Initially, creating herd immunity for the novel coronavirus was one of two main objectives of Dutch government policy: Controlling spread of the virus while protecting vulnerable groups, including the elderly and people with underlying health conditions.

...

In the past week, Rutte has since walked back the herd immunity policy line by introducing what could be characterized as lockdown light.

...

The country’s pragmatic balancing act doesn’t appear to be working as well as intended. The numbers released by the Dutch RIVM (National Institute for Public Health and the Environment) are not especially encouraging.

...

While Covid-19 hasn’t wreaked nearly as much havoc in the Netherlands as in Italy and Spain, it’s still conspicuous that a healthcare system as finely tuned and well coordinated as the Dutch system would have such alarming numbers in terms of mortality and morbidity.

 

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