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Coronavirus | COVID-19 | Global Pandemic | PLEASE KEEP DISCUSSION TO THIS THREAD

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3 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

But they can't just make up criminal laws and penalties on the fly...that's not how our legal system works...

"They" can do whatever they want by declaring a state of emergency (many "national emergencies" have been declared over the years, some are still in effect to this day) or even martial law. They just chose not to.

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1 hour ago, MrGlass2 said:

media.media.060fdfa2-06f1-4ab0-85cb-00e2

 

:WHATanabe:

What I meant with stealthy - they did and do it with helicopters too, but some misbehaving groups heard them / looked out for / expected helicopters and hid, spread out and / or whatsoever. The Zeppelins are good to see, but in comparison very silent, so they might get more, we will se.

Plus less intrusive for people celebrating Easter at home....

And I simply love them to see at the sky, love the balloon with hot air and a basket beneath too (forgot the term in Englisch, in German it’s Heißluftballon = heiß - hot, Luft - air,....)

 

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24 minutes ago, Plain Old Tele said:

 

Not remotely close to that yet. I think there's been a few cases of people being cited for blatantly ignoring the rules: surfing at a beach, for example. And there's been maybe 100 or so businesses that've been fined and/or had services shut off for staying open when they didn't qualify. But for the most part, it's still the honor system. The governor (and the various mayors of large cities) have for the most part tried to appeal to people's common sense rather than institute draconian measures. And, to be fair to the public, generally speaking people have been pretty responsive and responsible (though there have been some occasional blatant exceptions).

 

21 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

No...at least not in most places (a few cities are trying this, but the constitutionality hasn't been tested...and won't be til after this is all over)...

 

Freedom of assembly (and in some civil rights laws - freedom of movement) are tough to beat, even in a pandemic...

 

The US prefers a top down approach - counties and states can close governmental sites...and have.  They can revoke business licenses for lots of reasons...and thus, keep them closed (if those businesses wouldn't comply).  For Churches, they can limit, but not close...and most Churches and people are not contesting the limits (although there are a few emergency court cases floating)...

 

But they can't just make up criminal laws and penalties on the fly...that's not how our legal system works...

 

Then it's not a "lockdown" then 😀.

 

In my country, besides going to work (for those who still work), we can only leave once every day our homes. We send an SMS to a line set up by the government and they send us back a response if our request is accepted or not. So you have to choose what days you will go to buy the necessary stuff for your home and what day to go outside for a walk.

 

There are some exceptions about going to the pharmacy or a doctor, taking care of an elderly or going with your pet outside.

 

I almost forgot the most important. If you go outside with no permission and the police caught you, the fine is the minimum €300 and can go up depending on severity or how many times they caught you doing it.

Edited by stephanos13
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18 minutes ago, stephanos13 said:

But if you go outside for unnecessary reason the police doesn't give you a fine?

At the moment in most of north america it is hard, it is still perfectly into the guideline to go out for says grocery and stuff like that, in some place when it can be obvious it is "unnecessary" there is some enforcement being made I think:

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/fines-enforcement-possible-for-those-who-visit-beaches-parks-sd-mayor/2291979/

“Not following the order is a misdemeanor subject to a $1,000 fine,” Wooten said.

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4 minutes ago, stephanos13 said:

 

 

Then it's not a "lockdown" then 😀.

 

In my country, besides going to work (for those who still work), we can only leave once every day our homes. We send an SMS to a line set up by the government and they send us back a response if our request is accepted or not. So you have to choose what days you will go to buy the necessary stuff for your home and what day to go outside for a walk.

 

There are some exceptions about going to the pharmacy or a doctor, taking care of an elderly or going with your pet outside.

 

Yep, our "lockdown" is substantially more lenient than most other countries', as far as I can tell.

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5 minutes ago, stephanos13 said:

In my country, besides going to work (for those who still work), we can only leave once every day our homes. We send an SMS to a line set up by the government and they send us back a response if our request is accepted or not. So you have to choose what days you will go to buy the necessary stuff for your home and what day to go outside for a walk.

 

It is not yet like that in the US/Canada for sure, what is your country ?

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18 minutes ago, MrGlass2 said:

"They" can do whatever they want by declaring a state of emergency (many "national emergencies" have been declared over the years, some are still in effect to this day) or even martial law. They just chose not to.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/guide-emergency-powers-and-their-use

 

Still doesn't add criminal penalties (like jail time and fines) on the individual person...any declaration is a top-down effort at the federal level...

 

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13 minutes ago, Barnack said:

At the moment in most of north america it is hard, it is still perfectly into the guideline to go out for says grocery and stuff like that, in some place when it can be obvious it is "unnecessary" there is some enforcement being made I think:

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/fines-enforcement-possible-for-those-who-visit-beaches-parks-sd-mayor/2291979/

“Not following the order is a misdemeanor subject to a $1,000 fine,” Wooten said.

Yeah, those are the ones I mentioned that will probably be contested in court once it's all over...keeping it misdemeanors means they can charge them all now b/c most courts that deal with misdemeanors and below aren't operating...but when normalcy returns, I'd expect all the charges related to "disobeying governor orders" to get dropped...

Edited by TwoMisfits

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Went to Publix for a few items and the number of shoppers was insane. You could tell that most of the folks just wanted to get the f*ck out of the house. 

 

 

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One of my sister's best friends is a doctor and she got coronavirus as well as her husband. He's a doctor too and they've both been treating patients with the virus.

 

I guess it was inevitable in a way. But thankfully, they both seem to be asymptomatic. 

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1 hour ago, Barnack said:

 

It is not Wuhan level but it can get strict: you can compare state/countries with :

https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/

Interesting how effective the US states "lockdowns" seem to be, when the decline in activity (as measured by GoogleSpy) seems much smaller than in Europe. For example 'Retail&Recreation' has declined by 53% in California and 59% in New York, compared to -95% in Italy. Perhaps Americans just drive around more (even to buy food) and these trips are wrongly classified by the program.

 

And it is good to see that even though BoJo waited too long, the lockdown in the UK has been applied relatively quickly.

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I went out only thrice since March 16 (French lockdown): Twice for shopping, once for medicines.

 

That's it, and with a mask+gloves.

I probably won't go out until late April / early May.

 

At least I did my part and didn't get infected as far as I can tell.

 

 

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1 hour ago, MrGlass2 said:

And it is good to see that even though BoJo waited too long, the lockdown in the UK has been applied relatively quickly.

A lot of it is people doing it by them self as well I would imagine (or more regionally implemented than nationnaly)

 

1 hour ago, MrGlass2 said:

For example 'Retail&Recreation' has declined by 53% in California and 59% in New York, compared to -95% in Italy. Perhaps Americans just drive around more (even to buy food) and these trips are wrongly classified by the program.

Americans are driving more but were also driving more before this, they are compared to their own baseline not over some absolute metric so it should not be a factor (but it could explain why they do it more, doing it by car is certainly way better than a public transport).

 

Here going to the groceries store all the time (but really all the time, like once a week if not more) it still considered normal you can even hear people talking as if it is a necessary level of activity. In Italy I would imagine people took the situation way more seriously.

 

Imagine if just one person instead of 2 in a couple go to the store, -50%, they go at about the same interval than before.

Edited by Barnack
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35 minutes ago, ACSlater said:

Went to Publix for a few items and the number of shoppers was insane. You could tell that most of the folks just wanted to get the f*ck out of the house. 

 

 

Yep my wife wants me to go only once every two weeks which I'm not gonna do. We tried that and it was a $200 run that took an hour

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America's lockdown is too lenient. 

 

In India, cops are on street literally everywhere. We are allowed to go outside only for a certain fixed time everyday to buy essentials . 

 

 

 

Edited by Madhuvan
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California mainly had a lockdown because otherwise beaches would be slammed. 

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14 minutes ago, Madhuvan said:

America's lockdown is too lenient. 

 

In India, cops are on street literally everywhere. We are allowed to go outside only for a certain fixed time everyday to buy essentials . 

 

 

 

Nothing will be like India. India's so utterly overpopulated that even that fixed time people are going to go out to buy essentials is a million ticking time bombs.

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26 minutes ago, Madhuvan said:

America's lockdown is too lenient. 

 

In India, cops are on street literally everywhere. We are allowed to go outside only for a certain fixed time everyday to buy essentials . 

Will see, first signal do seem to show they are enough and work, as long as you achieve an R0 enough under 1.0 you get an exceptionally less and less case going on.

 

American isn't trying to eradicate this and for almost all of it (territory wise) it can still be very safe to go play outside. 

Edited by Barnack
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