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Coronavirus | COVID-19 | Global Pandemic | PLEASE KEEP DISCUSSION TO THIS THREAD

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31 minutes ago, ZeeSoh said:

Others have already pointed out but Kerala is perhaps the best state in India. It comes out at the top or near the top in nearly every good statistic for the country. It’s closer to some of the better developing countries out there whereas other states in India like Uttar Pradesh and Bihar are more closer to sub Saharan Africa levels or worse. 
 

Kerala also has a more educated populace and a state government not as corrupt as those in others. All this has helped them control the spread despite being the first state in India where Coronavirus showed up (due to workers returning from other countries. Kerala has a high number of its people working overseas). 

I had the good opportunity to volunteer for a month in Kerala's palliative care institute (Kozhikode). It is so amazingly run and novel that folks from the developed world and UN go there to observe their model (much like how Mumbai's Dabbalwalla's became globally appreciated, but this is more creditable). They evolved palliative care's boundaries to go beyond cancer and terminal patients :

The goal is to train at least one member of the family of the patient in basic nursing.

The family of the patient stays at the hospice for a week with the patient for free. They get trained for things like putting IV, collecting temperature/BP/pulse/other data, ensuring how to prevent bed sores, etc. Then the family leaves for their home.

Following that for eternity, every couple of weeks, couple of members (certified nurses) from the institute will visit your house to check how the patient is doing.

If and when things go bad you go to the hospital for free. Everyone's house will be visited every 2 weeks because of a route and schedule created to ensure that.

All for every religion, social status, income level at no cost. All just run based on donations connected largely from villages and small town. No private sector control.

Edited by a2k
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Anyways, Andrea Bocelli Live performance on Easter Sunday was amazing and getting tens of millions views.

 

Nice to see legendary performers do a public good.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, AndyK said:

It sounds like dumb bullshit made up by people who don't understand what the WHO is, and what it can do. It isn't responsible for food regulation in China, or in any other country. Blaming the WHO for the coronavirus has become common in backwards countries with failed governments looking for a scapegoat.

 

Also the notion that the WHO supports wet markets and called them "a vital source of food" seems dubious, and there is no source in the article. But here is what I found:

 

Quote

Dr David Nabarro, a WHO special envoy on Covid-19 and special representative of the United Nations secretary general for food security and nutrition, said the world health body “pleads with governments and just about everybody” to be respectful of how viruses from the animal kingdom are rife.

Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, Dr Nabarro said while WHO is not able to tell governments what to do, their advice is to close wet markets.

He replied: “You know how WHO and other parts of the international system work – we don’t have the capacity to police the world. Instead, what we have to do is offer advice and guidance, and there’s very clear advice from the Food and Agriculture Organisation and WHO that said there are real dangers in these kinds of environments.

 

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4 minutes ago, MrGlass2 said:

It sounds like dumb bullshit made up by people who don't understand what the WHO is, and what it can do. It isn't responsible for food regulation in China, or in any other country. Blaming the WHO for the coronavirus has become common in backwards countries with failed governments looking for a scapegoat.

 

Also the notion that the WHO supports wet markets and called them "a vital source of food" seems dubious, and there is no source in the article. But here is what I found:

 

 

 

 

Even so the WHO has done a pretty bad job with Coronavirus. 

 

They are still telling people not to cover their face even though countless experts say otherwise. 

Edited by Lordmandeep
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2 hours ago, AndyK said:


If wild animals were on sale again at live markets in China, that would be very, very bad, but that's not what the article says.

 

There's no indication that the Chinese government has rescinded the ban on wild animals at "wet markets", either in the article or elsewhere. (Whether the ban is being properly enforced is a different story.)

The article does correctly note that there's a misunderstanding of the term "wet market", it doesn't even mean that live animals are necessarily being sold, let alone live wild animals. The term "wet market" has a very broad meaning that simply means fresh food is being sold. A farmer's market here in the West would be called a "wet market" in Hong Kong English.

So "wet markets" re-opening in Wuhan is not particularly newsworthy, as they were only closed in the first place as part of the general shutdown in activity in Wuhan, and there's no need for a blanket ban on "wet markets" to begin with.

(Additional note: the term "wet market" is from Hong Kong English, and it's a very counterintuitive translation from the actual Cantonese term, which simply means "street market". I think the translation "street market" would be less likely to be misunderstood in the West.)

Edited by Jason
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4 minutes ago, Lordmandeep said:

Even so the WHO has done a pretty bad job with Coronavirus. 

 

They are still telling people not to cover their face even though countless experts say otherwise. 

 

Aehm, they can not order people to do so, nor send e.g. police to enforce it, that is the job of the governments of the countries or states, depending who is in charge for what per country.

 

Who brings the WHO constantly up for being responsible for things they do not even have a say about?

 

Btw, see the government of the USA now trying to find scapegoats, hypothetical question:

who was it, that killed the entirety of the position and staff ....

cited = the Global Health Security and Biodefence Unit - responsible for pandemic preparedness (est. 2015 by Obabma’s national security advisor Susan Rice, = the unit resided under the National Security Counsel = a forum of White House personnel that advices the president ...

for epidemics and such, especially also to have an eye for foreign sources of possible outbreaks?

As in also being the former position to be THE contact to organizations like e.g. the WHO and others? As in actually knowing to whom to speak about what kind of problem (next thing what might have gone wrong)

 

I give you one guess, at it was not that long ago (2018)

 

If you kill an established communication way, you shouldn’t cry afterwards about being informed too late or not how you needed it.

 

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42 minutes ago, Lordmandeep said:

Even so the WHO has done a pretty bad job with Coronavirus. 

 

They are still telling people not to cover their face even though countless experts say otherwise. 


I don't agree with the first part of this, because a lot of what they're getting blamed for isn't actually the fault of the WHO. (The finger-pointing should be directed at the various UN member states that tie its hands.)

But their mask guidance really should change to be along the lines of the CDC, with the caveat to follow local recommendations - ie. if you live in a country that *is* recommending medical face masks, follow that advice instead.

Edited by Jason
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23 minutes ago, terrestrial said:

 

Aehm, they can not order people to do so, nor send e.g. police to enforce it, that is the job of the governments of the countries or states, depending who is in charge for what per country.

 

Who brings the WHO constantly up for being responsible for things they do not even have a say about?

 

Btw, see the government of the USA now trying to find scapegoats, hypothetical question:

who was it, that killed the entirety of the position and staff ....

cited = the Global Health Security and Biodefence Unit - responsible for pandemic preparedness (est. 2015 by Obabma’s national security advisor Susan Rice, = the unit resided under the National Security Counsel = a forum of White House personnel that advices the president ...

for epidemics and such, especially also to have an eye for foreign sources of possible outbreaks?

As in also being the former position to be THE contact to organizations like e.g. the WHO and others? As in actually knowing to whom to speak about what kind of problem (next thing what might have gone wrong)

 

I give you one guess, at it was not that long ago (2018)

 

If you kill an established communication way, you shouldn’t cry afterwards about being informed too late or not how you needed it.

 

 

 

the Issue is the WHO is way to passive and it loses its effectiveness.

 

Its nothing about forcing people, its about being clear. 

 

The biggest problem i been having is who to trust for guidance about this.

 

Like I am healthy and wear a mask going outside as everyone else is doing so...even though the WHO says no need. 

Edited by Lordmandeep

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1 minute ago, Lordmandeep said:

 

the Issue is the WHO is way to passive and it loses its effectiveness.

 

Its nothing about forcing people, its about being clear. 

the problem is also, that politics demand things like not accepting Taiwan and other details, politics pushing people forwards into positions the ‘position’ speaks what politics want to hear.

 

And again, it depends with whom you speak about what. If you killed your entire ~ department for that, who does even know with whom to speak. To the political working people or to the medical working people or to the people working in administration or....

 

Even if you found someone from the medical part, is it a specialist for the situation? Is the person still up to date in general with the profession (e.g. older people sometimes do not do a lot of workshops... to be more up=to=date) or is the person really up=to=date with the actual situation?

The staff of the unit that got dissolved knew with whom to speak. 

The minimum what will happen is you loose time till you find the right contacts. The worst is, you never speak to the people who know best.

 

Those details wont emerge for years in=depth, if ever, hence why all those finger pointing tries are way too early in my POV

 

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Interesting paper on the effect the virus might have on the lungs:

https://www.esicm.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/684_author-proof.pdf

 

Combined with a Spiegel-article on the matter, it seems like many patients don't notice any trouble breathing early on, as would usually the case with pneumonia. There seems to be less liquid in the lungs compared to pneumonia, which makes it easier to breathe. The problem being that less oxygen is taken from the air, so while it might not feel like a lack of oxygen, there still is one. Then things either get better or quickly turn much worse, the latter being where people start to feel having trouble breathing.

 

To go back to the earlier case, once the body notices the lack of oxygen it starts to increase the breathing-frequency. Once that hits about twice the regular rate you generally need to be moved to intensive care. Per Michael Pfeifer, the president of the German society of pneumonia and ventilation-medicine, assisted breathing will save lives, and if you start it too late it will have a negative impact on the further development of the illness, but at the same time using this method will put stress on the body, thus it requires finding just the right time to start it.

 

The paper linked above also talks about the different methods required to handle respiration depending on which of the two types of patients you are dealing with (L and H, L being the less severe which can transform into the H form), and how both the evolution of the pneumonia itself as well as injuries caused by too stressful ventilation might cause the move from L to H.

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5 minutes ago, Plain Old Tele said:

We live in a country run by vile, venal people.

 

- snip -

 

sooo, the whole actions was nothing than a big=mouthed play to give the banks money instead of the people actually needing to survive.

 

🤑🤮🤢🤮🤑

 

🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

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Just now, terrestrial said:

sooo, the whole actions was nothing than a big=mouthed play to give the banks money instead of the people actually needing to survive.

 

Well obviously no

 

1) The vast majority of people are not in a situation for which the laws is relevant

2) I imagine most big banks will for the most part not touch them, for PR reason (small one thought.... maybe).

 

When the government turned into private banks to make the small business loans and take those risk at very low margin instead of doing it themselve because they do not have the structure to do it, they had to give in exchange too yes.

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8 minutes ago, Barnack said:

Well obviously no

 

1) The vast majority of people are not in a situation for which the laws is relevant

2) I imagine most big banks will for the most part not touch them, for PR reason (small one thought.... maybe).


1) what makes you say that?

2) hahahahahahahaha (edit: our banks don’t care one whit about PR. There’s an infamous example where they foreclosed on an old retiree because she owed 27 cents)

 

P.S. That lender was run by Steven Mnunchin.

Edited by Plain Old Tele
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46 minutes ago, George Parr said:

..., but at the same time using this method will put stress on the body, thus it requires finding just the right time to start it.

 

 

fun details for me: you’ll get narcotics for the in tubings...  (not sure about the terms for the moment)

 

I react ‘unexpected’ to narcotics, like either not at all like they are supposed to, or like overdosing, or very time-delayed and as such medicals do react not always accordingly... 

 

Plus I had at least 2 times pneumonia (as a child - hospital pronounced it as that, one time with oxygen-tent) and 1 time assumed, but not per hospital statement - they said then reduced lung volume (not a lot, I never feel it) 

 

Guess who definitively does not want to end with that treatment

 

(My pneumonias were not caused by the usual situations, it was part of the abusive upbringing, once she managed to nearly kill me by hyperthermia)

 

Edited by terrestrial
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Is the Washington post considered a reliable publication?

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30 minutes ago, Plain Old Tele said:


1) what makes you say that?

2) hahahahahahahaha (edit: our banks don’t care one whit about PR. There’s an infamous example where they foreclosed on an old retiree because she owed 27 cents)

 

P.S. That lender was run by Steven Mnunchin.

 

 

As a person who works at a Bank in Canada, that must have been a mistake of process then the bank really wanting to foreclose on them.

Cause it costs a lot of money legally to foreclose on someone. 

 

Now having worked on debt collection side at a bank, there is a lot of automated systems where people have no money and owed funds and once funds go in the banks will take. So it will be up to the bank to make a choice.

 

 

Here in Canada people are getting 2000 dollars a month but the banks are then expecting people to pay min payments on debts then. 

For example, the banks are deferring peoples mortgages for people in tough situations for 6 months but you still are charged interest on the mortgage and its added on as principal.

 

There was a big uproar about it but then the bank was like well you still have a debt to pay. 

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7 minutes ago, AndyK said:

Is the Washington post considered a reliable publication?


Yes. :lol: 

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