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45 minutes ago, AndyK said:

As far as I know, no paper concerning Covid-19 has been peer reviewed included the Imperial college report and model that led to multiple countries locking down their economies.

Are you suggesting lockdowns are pointless? What do you think about mask mandates?

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17 minutes ago, OncomingStorm93 said:

Are you suggesting lockdowns are pointless? What do you think about mask mandates?

No, I am just reminding you that using peer reviewing as an argument for or against holds no water.

 

I am pro mask wearing, I wear one myself. It seems logical even if there is no peer reviewed science behind it.

Edited by AndyK

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6 hours ago, MrGlass2 said:

Pretty amazing to beat that dead horse 4 months later. Maybe you should stop following the last "herd immunity" fanatics of YouTube, even Sweden has given up on the idea.

It is still quite unknown but it is possible certain place in New-York did reach it (at the same time that give an idea of the cost of doing so, at least back in the days where treatment were not advanced)

Edited by Barnack

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Very interesting video about possible mass-evictions in the near future across the US.

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39 minutes ago, TestPattern said:

 

   ....

Disney is facing financial troubles, supposedly.

In the past I was hugely involved in the Disney community and was a member of just about every Disney Forum.

 

There have always been 'insiders' on these forums that claim to have sources in high positions in Disney.  One in particular claimed to have access to board members and  years ago was insistent that the Disney board had an unannounced board meeting and had decided to sell off all the american parks.  He'd write detailed post after post of insider information and enough of it came true that he and others like him developed a following.

 

Fear mongering always generates traffic and people love to speculate on the worst events happening at companies.

 

There is no doubt that Disney, like every other entertainment/travel company, has taken a severe hit on revenue and that will effect future plans.

 

But I'd take with a grain of salt anyone on these forums claiming 'insider' info.  People that do have detailed information on what's truly happening inside Disney Corporate are not posted it on Disney fan sites.

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1 minute ago, Brainbug said:

 

Very interesting video about possible mass-evictions in the near future across the US.

This is starting. My aunt and her husband were given 30 days notice to leave their dwelling on July 15th. Between them they don't have a job (my aunt lost two part time jobs) and don't know where they're going to go. I suspect they'll end up moving in with one of their daughters, both of which are married with kids. My parents offered to take my aunt in, but won't take her husband (long story).

 

There are tons of places to rent right now, and hardly any homes for sale. It is a very strange housing situation.

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2 hours ago, MrGlass2 said:

Pretty amazing to beat that dead horse 4 months later. Maybe you should stop following the last "herd immunity" fanatics of YouTube, even Sweden has given up on the idea.

I just argued the case for lockdowns.

 

How did you manage to twist that into the opposite?

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2 hours ago, AndyK said:

As far as I know, no paper concerning Covid-19 has been peer reviewed included the Imperial college report and model that led to multiple countries locking down their economies.


What? This is a bit peripheral to the discussion at hand, but there have been loads of COVID-19 papers that have completed the peer review process.

https://www.nature.com/collections/hajgidghjb shows just the highlights from Nature and its associated publications from the past month or so.

It's true that the Imperial College reports were not, strictly speaking, peer-reviewed, but they were widely cited in many peer-reviewed publications that followed because the epidemiologists at Imperial are considered to be the leaders in the field and many of them act as referees/editors for journals in the field.

I think it's also worth noting that at least some of the conclusions of the Imperial College reports (disease severity, transmissibility), were in fact published later as peer-reviewed articles.

It's a valid concern that the paper in question hasn't been peer-reviewed, although I personally think the more important point is that the paper doesn't actually suggest the herd immunity threshold is 20%, but rather that it could be as low as 20% if half the population is already resistant. One thing I note, although I haven't checked the references thoroughly, is that they don't explicitly state their rationale for up to 50% of the population having prior resistance.
 

1 hour ago, AndyK said:

No, I am just reminding you that using peer reviewing as an argument for or against holds no water.

 

I am pro mask wearing, I wear one myself. It seems logical even if there is no peer reviewed science behind it.


I grant that peer-review isn't a be-all and end-all. But just for the record, there is lots of peer-reviewed science to back the wearing of surgical/procedure masks, dating back to the aftermath of SARS. That's why the East Asian countries stockpiled them and issue mask wearing recommendations immediately.

There is even some peer-reviewed science backing the wearing of cloth masks, although it's more indirect.

Edited by Jason
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24 minutes ago, cannastop said:

 

 

"Guys, girls no problem working out, its totally safe apart from the low chance that you might die and the high chance that you could infect others who might have more of a chance to die, but apart from that its safe!"

 

Murica

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42 minutes ago, Jason said:


What? This is a bit peripheral to the discussion at hand, but there have been loads of COVID-19 papers that have completed the peer review process.

https://www.nature.com/collections/hajgidghjb shows just the highlights from Nature and its associated publications from the past month or so.

It's true that the Imperial College reports were not, strictly speaking, peer-reviewed, but they were widely cited in many peer-reviewed publications that followed because the epidemiologists at Imperial are considered to be the leaders in the field and many of them act as referees/editors for journals in the field.

I think it's also worth noting that at least some of the conclusions of the Imperial College reports (disease severity, transmissibility), were in fact published later as peer-reviewed articles.

It's a valid concern that the paper in question hasn't been peer-reviewed, although I personally think the more important point is that the paper doesn't actually suggest the herd immunity threshold is 20%, but rather that it could be as low as 20% if half the population is already resistant. One thing I note, although I haven't checked the references thoroughly, is that they don't explicitly state their rationale for up to 50% of the population having prior resistance.
 


I grant that peer-review isn't a be-all and end-all. But just for the record, there is lots of peer-reviewed science to back the wearing of surgical/procedure masks, dating back to the aftermath of SARS. That's why the East Asian countries stockpiled them and issue mask wearing recommendations immediately.

There is even some peer-reviewed science backing the wearing of cloth masks, although it's more indirect.

Well I did say as far as I know....and I obviously don't.

 

But the point stands, if we had waited for peer review of the Imperial college report, a lot more people would have died.

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4 hours ago, Barnack said:

It is still quite unknown but it is possible certain place in New-York did reach it (had the same time that give an idea of the cost of doing so, at least back in the days where treatment were not advanced)

Herd immunity isn't worth the several hundred thousand that will die. Even if we go into a deep recession you don't trade 200 thousand people for a good economy.

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29 minutes ago, cdsacken said:

Herd immunity isn't worth the several hundred thousand that will die. Even if we go into a deep recession you don't trade 200 thousand people for a good economy.

The problem is you likely don't get a good economy. That's sort of the false choice that is presented.

 

If you go the herd immunity route than the number of people being infected, getting sick, being hospitalized, and eventually dying ends up being so high day after day that it creates fear in people to go out and that tanks the economy anyways.

 

the tweets from the Mississippi Gov that I linked a couple pages back shows just how bad it would be to try to achieve herd immunity. (He basically showed it would mean having every day for a year be 3X worse than the worst day so far in Mississippi - and that assumed a 40% ratio).

 

PS i know you are not supporting a herd immunity, just adding to your point that it is a false choice to even begin with. 

Mick Mulvaney got one thing really right in his op-ed earlier this week. In order to solve the economic crisis you have to solve the public health crisis.

 

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Another record day. Record cases, record testing, and even with that a positivity rate above 9%.

Also, while it looks like AZ is peaking some AZ residents on one tweet thread I saw said it may be less peaking and more simply that the testing is basically breaking down there with huge delays in reporting and shortages of supplies.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, RamblinRed said:

The problem is you likely don't get a good economy. That's sort of the false choice that is presented.

 

If you go the herd immunity route than the number of people being infected, getting sick, being hospitalized, and eventually dying ends up being so high day after day that it creates fear in people to go out and that tanks the economy anyways.

 

the tweets from the Mississippi Gov that I linked a couple pages back shows just how bad it would be to try to achieve herd immunity. (He basically showed it would mean having every day for a year be 3X worse than the worst day so far in Mississippi - and that assumed a 40% ratio).

 

PS i know you are not supporting a herd immunity, just adding to your point that it is a false choice to even begin with. 

Mick Mulvaney got one thing really right in his op-ed earlier this week. In order to solve the economic crisis you have to solve the public health crisis.

 

Oh yeah I don't even think it's really a viable option but that's how they present it. Honestly it's just an excuse to not take the necessary measures that can prevent substantial loss of life.

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For the record creating a homeschool kindergarten is incredibly stressful difficult and humbling. We have been setting up zoom calls with eight groups of parents trying to convince one of the parents respective grandmother who's been in Montessori education for 30 years to teach it. Trying to cover the financial dynamics, The requirements for registration, hours, schedule and coordination is ridiculous. 

 

 

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This is another example of how Georgia is burying data in an effort to downplay the pandemic. 
 

 

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So the OKC City Council just implemented a mask requirement for all indoor spaces effective immediately through at least 9/8. Some exceptions apply to persons and places. 

 

Now, since major corporations and chain stores were already implementing mask requirements with more certain to follow I don't think this was really necessary but whatever now there's a blanket requirement. 

Edited by nghtvsn
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Herd Immunity is a pipe dream.

 

If we reach part immunity (also with the help of a vaccine), that would be a big win. 

If part immunity would lead to making Covid a common cold, we should be very happy. 
This will most probably never go away.

 

The interesting Question would be, how all those other viruses, Rhinovirus, Enterovius, the milder Corona Viruses, looked like when they first got in contact with humans. Were they always harmless colds? 

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