google-site-verification=EzRt-ZmNlc4J5RNLXiuJpAEGjNviG678nNB1w49cgZg Jump to content
DeeCee

Coronavirus | COVID-19 | Global Pandemic | PLEASE KEEP DISCUSSION TO THIS THREAD

Recommended Posts

33 minutes ago, Chicago said:

On the news it said there was no evidence the vaccine didn't work for the new strain. They seemed confident that it worked.

Yeah, it looks like the vaccines can be tweaked very quickly anyway if needed and hopefully they won't need new approvals as per flu vaccines.

 

😂

Edited by AndyK
  • Haha 1
  • Astonished 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, AndyK said:

That's crazy, I have private health insurance here in the UK, it costs £2000 per year and until the kids were adults, it covered everyone in the family.

 

I had a tendon repair operation on the shoulder around 10 years ago and the surgical costs and private hospital cost £1500.

 

You are being ripped off royally.

I had my spleen removed last year and it didn’t cost me anything. I think that’s why people are so shocked when they see some of the bills some Americans get from certain things we aren’t used to paying for. But I assume if you have really good insurance in the states then it isn’t too bad? 
 

The only thing I pay for is “family insurance” from my employer which covers like dental and stuff and that costs me $80/month. All other stuff is covered by the government here. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, cax16 said:

I had my spleen removed last year and it didn’t cost me anything. I think that’s why people are so shocked when they see some of the bills some Americans get from certain things we aren’t used to paying for. But I assume if you have really good insurance in the states then it isn’t too bad? 
 

The only thing I pay for is “family insurance” from my employer which covers like dental and stuff and that costs me $80/month. All other stuff is covered by the government here. 

 

It's a confusing mish mash if you don't live here...and if you do live here, you find many people pick their state or employer based on how they handle all the things states handle (health insurance, unemployment insurance, some social net programs, workforce rules, etc)...it's not always about the beautiful weather or the cheap houses:)...

 

I've lived in a few states, so I know how variable it all is - only state I wouldn't go back to live is NJ (although I'll still visit:)...nothing personal, but property taxes and car insurance prices would make me a pauper there:)...and their hospitals, at least in South Jersey, provide atrocious complicated cancer care...

Edited by TwoMisfits
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cax16 said:

I had my spleen removed last year and it didn’t cost me anything. I think that’s why people are so shocked when they see some of the bills some Americans get from certain things we aren’t used to paying for. But I assume if you have really good insurance in the states then it isn’t too bad? 
 

The only thing I pay for is “family insurance” from my employer which covers like dental and stuff and that costs me $80/month. All other stuff is covered by the government here. 

Well we have the NHS, so everything is free.

 

But waiting lists for non urgent surgery can be long. Few people have private health insurance, but I get it free from the employer, so might as well use it. I can get ops in a couple of weeks if I need it.

 

I got food poisoning in New York once, they did a CT scan cos they thought I had appendicitis, the scan cost the insurance $5000, madness.

 

  • Astonished 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, AndyK said:

Well we have the NHS, so everything is free.

 

But waiting lists for non urgent surgery can be long. Few people have private health insurance, but I get it free from the employer, so might as well use it. I can get ops in a couple of weeks if I need it.

 

I got food poisoning in New York once, they did a CT scan cos they thought I had appendicitis, the scan cost the insurance $5000, madness.

 

Wow!

 

 

Ya wait times can be a little longer as well here but I think it’s worth it. But for me I only waited about a month and half cause it wasn’t an emergency. 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

It's a confusing mish mash if you don't live here...and if you do live here, you find many people pick their state or employer based on how they handle all the things states handle (health insurance, unemployment insurance, some social net programs, workforce rules, etc)...it's not always about the beautiful weather or the cheap houses:)...

 

I've lived in a few states, so I know how variable it all is - only state I wouldn't go back to live is NJ (although I'll still visit:)...nothing personal, but property taxes and car insurance prices would make me a pauper there:)...and their hospitals, at least in South Jersey, provide atrocious complicated cancer care...

A few years back I used to watch house hunters and when I saw some of the prices of property in certain states I was shocked. I know there’s also places like New York and some other places that have some crazy real estate prices as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, AndyK said:

Yeah, it looks like the vaccines can be tweaked very quickly anyway if needed and hopefully they won't need new approvals as per flu vaccines.

 

😂

Chances are the whole world already has this new variant and we were just the first to spot it. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/20/2020 at 4:46 PM, cax16 said:

So everyone can get the unemployment? Doesn’t matter what jobs they had etc? Sorry for all the questions but I want to understand what the $1200/600 complaints are then? I think I may be misunderstanding the situation. 

The unemployment was fairly generous... 600/week at the beginning of the pandemic then 300/week after that.  That was on top of what states already pay in unemployment.

 

HOWEVER...

 

1) The industries hit hardest by COVID shutdowns are the ones where people tended to work multiple jobs with limited hours per week and changed jobs more often.  Most states have rules that you have to work a a certain amount of time/hours at a job to collect unemployment.  

 

2) Many people kept their job but had their hours cut.  In many states you can collect partial unemployment in that case but in industries when hours are always flexible it's confusing and hard to prove what you should receive. 

 

3) Many rely on tips to give them a living wage and with the limited indoor service they might be working but their wages are much lower.

 

4) State unemployment is funded by insurance the employers have to pay for and many claims will cause their rates to skyrocket.  So many employers will do whatever they can to prevent employees from collecting unemployment.

 

5) A ton of people in the USA run sole proprietor businesses.  No unemployment.  In theory they could get PPP loans but if you don't have employees you are capped at ~20,000 which is nothing for 8-10 months.  

 

6) Cut hours or being laid off means lost employer health insurance.   Replacing it outside of employer subsidized insurance is real expensive.  (plus you have to start over towards your deductible)  Even if you do have insurance, if you got COVID and have to be treated you're looking at significant medical bills.

 

 

 

  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^ to add to this, the PPP loans were insanely complicated and dumped on banks and businesses at literally the last minute. In theory they should’ve (and would’ve) been straightforward, but in actuality it was a weird mess of paperwork where it was incredibly likely that an application was denied. My wife runs a small business and applied several times to no effect. Finally she hired a PPP loan consultant (yes, those exist), and what do you know, she got a loan. The entire process was lengthy and nerve-wracking, when really it should’ve been a slam dunk.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, AndyK said:

Well we have the NHS, so everything is free.

 

But waiting lists for non urgent surgery can be long. Few people have private health insurance, but I get it free from the employer, so might as well use it. I can get ops in a couple of weeks if I need it.

 

I got food poisoning in New York once, they did a CT scan cos they thought I had appendicitis, the scan cost the insurance $5000, madness.

 

Not really, you pay for it in your taxes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one knows yet what the impace of the Mutated strain of Covid will be.

Now there is word of another  strain in South Africa that may be deadlier then the standard strain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, dudalb said:

Not really, you pay for it in your taxes.

Most people are terrible at saving or organising their finances, its better to have essential services be paid for through taxes. It's in place so no member of the public will go without health care whether they work or dont work. It's something every country should be doing

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update on the Northern Beaches cluster in Sydney. 
 

This is how contact tracing and a testing surge is done. These numbers are the 24 hours to 8pm the previous day. First number is the locally acquired case total and the second is the total number of processed test results. 

16th - 0 - 11,922

17th - 3 - 10,583

18th - 15 - 7,531

19th - 23 - 12,374

20th - 30 - 28,210

21st - 15 - 38,578
22nd - 8 - 44,466

 

The Northern Beaches have been shutdown since Saturday. The previous day’s numbers are announced at 11am and so far every single case has already been linked within the cluster. Primarily focused on Avalon. There has yet to be any unlinked spread into areas outside the Northern Beaches. 
 

Thank you Dr Kerry Chant and everyone at NSW Health. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, dudalb said:

Not really, you pay for it in your taxes.

If we pay for free medicine with taxes everything will cost as it should cost. If you let such essential things to business you get such ridiculous price like $1000 or $2000 for a simple scan. And that scan basically should cost nothing or a really small amount everyone can afford. No resources required except some working time of a doctor and possible nurse. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, juni78ukr said:

If we pay for free medicine with taxes everything will cost as it should cost. If you let such essential things to business you get such ridiculous price like $1000 or $2000 for a simple scan. And that scan basically should cost nothing or a really small amount everyone can afford. No resources required except some working time of a doctor and possible nurse. 

Machines like scanners actually cost alot to initially buy. You also need to pay engineers to keep them running, run service checks, change parts and likely replace the whole gear every 5-10 years. Buying and running these things is more expensive than you think. Its not quite as simple as paying a nurse

Edited by Chicago
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Chicago said:

Machines like scanners actually cost alot to initially buy. You also need to pay engineers to keep them running, run service checks, change parts and likely replace the whole gear every 5-10 years. Buying and running these things is more expensive than you think. Its not quite as simple as paying a nurse

yep, CT and MRT scans are quite expensive. nontheless, they're (by now) such an important part of diagnosis for many injuries and illnesses they really should be covered by any insurance.

 

The aversion in the USA against a public health system is something that's really hard to understand from the outside. I mean, why do people form a state at all? It's because some hazards are too big to be met on an individual (or reginal) scale - military invasions, big earthquakes, organised crime, but also ecomomic decline and so on. So, a state should be promoting personal safety and weel-being. And health is really a core area when it comes to personal safety and well-being. It's more important than public transport and more important than disaster prevention. A well-funded and effective public health system and school system (also something the USA don't really bother about) are pillars of community.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, juni78ukr said:

If we pay for free medicine with taxes everything will cost as it should cost. If you let such essential things to business you get such ridiculous price like $1000 or $2000 for a simple scan. And that scan basically should cost nothing or a really small amount everyone can afford. No resources required except some working time of a doctor and possible nurse. 

 

5 minutes ago, Chicago said:

Machines like scanners actually cost alot to initially buy. You also need to pay engineers to keep them running, run service checks, change parts and likely replace the whole gear every 5-10 years. Buying and running these things is more expensive than you think. Its not quite as simple as paying a nurse

The average (specialized) doctor who has any form of ‚scanner‘ in his/her ... doctor‘s office (?) has it longer than that.

 

I think its a mix out of both POVs, but I think juni78ukr meant it more like the costs for a scan in other countries are far less than what we hear from patients within the US. Like a very small part, and it works still for the providers. Its not only about what the patient has to pay, its also about what the insurances or other departments have to pay as a sum. And that is still way deeper than what in the US the sum is.

 

Tax pays also for what we call Hardship Cases, for the elderlies who do not get enough money together to even live self-reliant on their own means, young adults that do not have a good paying job yet (or never), single parents,....

Its one pot, in the US ~ subsidiaries for ..... can come out of different pots, a few of those will have a tax support too I think.

Or state‘s support for eg single parents or.... It‘s spread out in another way, but here no one gets not into ‚something‘, see cancer programs or whatever

 

It means also the prices for those technical services are cheaper too, especially in countries where this part too gets organized out of one office, but also in countries where it is organized commercially, as it can reach 100% capacity utilisation (in theory), technicians have a smaller region per person/equipment... see capacity. Excepting very special equipment, usually a technician does not have to fly in.

Exchange parts are cheaper too per amount built in a more broadly covered region and so on.

 

Btw, with the population size the US has, it should be way cheaper there anyway too, including quiet some producers of the equipment actually are sitting in the US.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.insider.com/adam-kay-us-slightly-brainwashed-about-healthcare-2019-12

 

I remember reading that story not so long ago. "They said, 'Normally, because it was a glass injury, we would want to X-ray it, just to make sure that nothing's got into the joint, but that will be an extra $1,500"

 

That's rather a simple procedure and any hospital would make dozens of them any day.  The machine should be made from pure gold with such prices. 

Once again its not that simple but still you get the general idea. A simple scan not requiring any real effort or expenses for some people would cost a half of montfly income or even more.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, AndyLL said:

The unemployment was fairly generous... 600/week at the beginning of the pandemic then 300/week after that.  That was on top of what states already pay in unemployment.

 

HOWEVER...

 

1) The industries hit hardest by COVID shutdowns are the ones where people tended to work multiple jobs with limited hours per week and changed jobs more often.  Most states have rules that you have to work a a certain amount of time/hours at a job to collect unemployment.  

 

2) Many people kept their job but had their hours cut.  In many states you can collect partial unemployment in that case but in industries when hours are always flexible it's confusing and hard to prove what you should receive. 

 

3) Many rely on tips to give them a living wage and with the limited indoor service they might be working but their wages are much lower.

 

4) State unemployment is funded by insurance the employers have to pay for and many claims will cause their rates to skyrocket.  So many employers will do whatever they can to prevent employees from collecting unemployment.

 

5) A ton of people in the USA run sole proprietor businesses.  No unemployment.  In theory they could get PPP loans but if you don't have employees you are capped at ~20,000 which is nothing for 8-10 months.  

 

6) Cut hours or being laid off means lost employer health insurance.   Replacing it outside of employer subsidized insurance is real expensive.  (plus you have to start over towards your deductible)  Even if you do have insurance, if you got COVID and have to be treated you're looking at significant medical bills.

 

 

 

Thanks for explanation, it sounds so overly complicated for you guys there. It must be so hard for so many with lower to mid incomes. 
 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No person should ever live in fear on not having access to health care free at the point of delivery.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Guidelines. Feel free to read our Privacy Policy as well.