The Flash | June 16 2023 | Ezra Miller, Michael Keaton | We’re stoping the count at a Nice 69% RT (it’s 72% For Real) | Please Remember that Your Enjoyment Of The Film is Not Based On Others Opinions And To Be Nice To Each Other

[Serpico Jones]

Gunn has never run anything so there’s reason to be pessimistic. Almost any one  can assemble a writer’s room in which ten potential projects are burped up and put on a chalkboard. Let’s see the execution.

[The Dark Alfred]

I admit I wasn't following much of the marketing for this one, could someone explain what went wrong? A few months ago this was destined to have a huge OW and potentially open above 100m. Now the predictions are getting lower and lower each week and this might open below JW4? Reviews don't seem to be awful either.

Edited June 14, 2023 by The Dark Alfred

[excel1]

31 minutes ago, CoolioD1 said:

Just got out of this. It was indeed… pretty decent. Honestly for the Warner/DC executives who thought they had a masterpiece on their hands after watching Black Adam and Shazam 2, I get it.

 

The core story is actually pretty good but the fan servicey moments are baaaad. Except for the one cameo the internet didn’t spoil for me ahead of time that one was actually pretty good and well deployed.

 

So...

 

 

Who is starting the "-30% 2nd weekend club"?

[John Marston]

15 minutes ago, The Dark Alfred said:

I admit I wasn't following much of the marketing for this one, could someone explain what went wrong? A few months ago this was destined to have a huge OW and potentially open above 100m. Now the predictions are getting lower and lower each week and this might open below JW4? Reviews don't seem to be awful either.

 

people mistakenly thought that Ezra wasn’t an issue and let online hype about things like Keaton’s Batman and Supergirl get to their head 

[Johnny Tran]

24 minutes ago, Serpico Jones said:

Gunn has never run anything so there’s reason to be pessimistic. Almost any one  can assemble a writer’s room in which ten potential projects are burped up and put on a chalkboard. Let’s see the execution.

 

We've seen his execution on GOTG vol. 1-3 and TSS/Peacemaker and all projects have been critically acclaimed.  I don't think there's a reason to be pessimistic about what he wants to do and remember he's writing/directing Superman himself. 

[AJG]

Saw it. Its good. I dont know where they got "greatest superhero movie of all time". I'd argue its on the top tier of a list of the MCU's more disposable movies. If theres a list of Top 10 Superhero movies, this movie wouldn't be on it. But it's still a good enough time.

 

Fast. Funny. The music is great. The first two-thirds of the film are fantastic. The opening action scene has some of my favourite Batman sequences in a movie. Barry is sweet and i enjoyed him. Miller is strong throughout. Burton's Batman is cool, but at the end of the day it's still just Batman. Supergirl is just kinda there.

 

That last third of the film is where the problems are. The resolution to the action here is muddy. It's predictable and slow, and emotional pay off here falls a flat, and it's a shame really. 

 

Also not to beat a dead horse, but I absolutely must. When we see online discussions about "bad CGI" they're always overblown. The worse offenders are criticsm of design choices rather than the quality of the CG. It annoys me to no end. However: the CGI in this movie is the worst I've ever seen a modern superhero film. It is atrocious. The last third of this movie has a pivotol scene that is simply visually unpleasant. Entire sequences, although well designed, have character models that look like high end PS3 cutscenes like Heavy Rain or Beyond Two Souls. It's like it's pre-viz.

Heads pasted or deep-faked onto CG bodies and costumes an actor could of just worn. Floating masks covering faces. All of it improperly lit, with those flat shadows that dont bend to the contours of an actors face. That singular grey shade. It's not just 1 or 2 scenes, its the entirety of the movie. The film kicks off with a sequence with most terrifying troupe of CG babies this side of Ally Mcbeal. It is unreal how a movie like this can come out looking the way it does. Anyone saying "it's not that bad" is LYING. I am sorry but it's shocking. Frankly I'd tell people to watch this film to gawk at the CG alone.

 

The resolution, the CG, as well as the way the thing is visually staged does not give me the sense that WB considered this to be "the big one". The Endgame of the DCEU. I just can't fathom that a movie that's meant to be such a pivotal point of the DCEU's storytelling, as well as corporate interest can be allowed to come out looking the way this thing looks.

 

It's a HIGH MATINEE from me. I wouldn't be shocked if people disliked it more than me. I have never thought less of a movie I'm enjoying because of bad CGI, but this is a first for me. I urge you to go to an IMAX and just look at this. Articles will be written about what this movie is visually and I will read them all.

 

 

[fmpro]

51 minutes ago, CoolioD1 said:

Just got out of this. It was indeed… pretty decent. Honestly for the Warner/DC executives who thought they had a masterpiece on their hands after watching Black Adam and Shazam 2, I get it.

 

The core story is actually pretty good but the fan servicey moments are baaaad. Except for the one cameo the internet didn’t spoil for me ahead of time that one was actually pretty good and well deployed.

+1

 

I had a blast. The one cameo got me up from the chair clapping 🤣

[Cmasterclay]

I guess my take on all this is I can't believe they just didn't hard reboot DC in 2017. It was clear the Snyder style was never gonna catch on at MCU levels. But I know that's probably gonna be called dumb because Aquaman did good in a weak holiday season or whatever.

[Dominic Draper]

2 hours ago, Johnny Tran said:

 

We've seen his execution on GOTG vol. 1-3 and TSS/Peacemaker and all projects have been critically acclaimed.  I don't think there's a reason to be pessimistic about what he wants to do and remember he's writing/directing Superman himself. 

Gunn doesn't have a commercially successful film at the box office outside of the MCU that he directed. I think financially speaking there is plenty to be pessimistic about.

 

Box office success inside the MCU has rarely translated outside of it despite Hollywood desperately trying it.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Dominic Draper

[PenguinHyphy]

5 hours ago, TigerPaw said:

Transformers is big in China and most parts of Asia though. An advantage Flash won't have.

 

Yet, that simple fact has not stopped people from yelling about The Flash being a $1,000,000,000 grosser for a year now 

[Avatree]

Well this was GREAT!

 

Actual good fun. I think this might be the most enjoyable DCEU film? (i know, not a high bar lol)

 

It has exactly the right tone, strikes a good balance of humour/silliness with an emotional core that I cared about. I might have eeeeven shed a tear.

 

It isn't tied down by a 2D villain, so the stakes aren't with a generic bad guy that you know will lose, the stakes are about what will happen emotionally to the characters and what choices they will make.

 

And I didn't get bored in the third act, which for me is a huge win from a superhero movie.

 

Definitely should have been a bit shorter, didn't need to be 2.5 hours, but I really enjoyed it. Also one moment got a round of applause from the audience which I don't think(?) I have ever seen in a cinema here in the UK.

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Avatree

[Dominic Draper]

2 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

I guess my take on all this is I can't believe they just didn't hard reboot DC in 2017. It was clear the Snyder style was never gonna catch on at MCU levels. But I know that's probably gonna be called dumb because Aquaman did good in a weak holiday season or whatever.

There was really only 2 paths that made sense after BVS IMO.

 

1) Get rid of Snyder right then and hard reboot. Delay or can JL.

2) Let Snyder finish JL with heavy supervision and then dump him after it comes out and bring in a new head to build off the bones with a clear plan. The success of WW and Aquaman showed there may have been a chance. They could have recast affleck and cavill right then and inserted them in. It would be messy but not messier than the bizzare shotgun approach after.

 

WB decision to keep Snyder, then bring in Whedon then not delay JL to get some bonuses is still insane.

 

DC has been a mess, reboots, soft reboots, Sequels that aren't actually sequels, spin offs...none of it had any vision or cohesion. I swear every DC film from 2016 to now had an after credit scene that went nowhere.

 

You can't build an audience trust like that.

 

 

[vinny2487]

50 minutes ago, Serpico Jones said:

Gunn has never run anything so there’s reason to be pessimistic. Almost any one  can assemble a writer’s room in which ten potential projects are burped up and put on a chalkboard. Let’s see the execution.

There's a reason why Peter Safran is the co head of DC Studios and Gunn not doing this solo. 

[WorkingonaName]

11 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

I guess my take on all this is I can't believe they just didn't hard reboot DC in 2017. It was clear the Snyder style was never gonna catch on at MCU levels. But I know that's probably gonna be called dumb because Aquaman did good in a weak holiday season or whatever.

Its dumb, caus Aqauman is GOATed

[dudalb]

30 minutes ago, Johnny Tran said:

 

We've seen his execution on GOTG vol. 1-3 and TSS/Peacemaker and all projects have been critically acclaimed.  I don't think there's a reason to be pessimistic about what he wants to do and remember he's writing/directing Superman himself. 

Gunn is a wondeful writer and director, but asking if he has the executive ability to run a big studio is a legit question. We are talking about two diffferent skill sets here.

I think the idea is that Gunn will be the creative force, and Safran witll handle the business/Adminstrative end, but sitll, it would b e useful if Gunn shows he has some executive abiity as well.

 

[CoolioD1]

21 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

I guess my take on all this is I can't believe they just didn't hard reboot DC in 2017. It was clear the Snyder style was never gonna catch on at MCU levels. But I know that's probably gonna be called dumb because Aquaman did good in a weak holiday season or whatever.

Justice League was sandwiched in between the DCEU's biggest hit domestically and their biggest hit worldwide. I can get why they were probably confused about what to do at that point. I would've been too. It's a tough calll because it's easy to assume there was a lot of juice in those solo movies at that time even if people weren't invested in the bigger picture.

Edited June 14, 2023 by CoolioD1

[dudalb]

8 minutes ago, vinny2487 said:

There's a reason why Peter Safran is the co head of DC Studios and Gunn not doing this solo. 

Yuo beat me too it.

But still, it will be eaiser if Gunn does have some exec/administrative ablikty.

But I think this will be like Walt and Roy Disney; Walt was the creative guy and Roy ran the business end. 

What might be interesting is if Safran has to tell Gunn 'No; that would cost too much and/or is too risky". He will proably have to reign in Gunn on occasion.

[dudalb]

14 minutes ago, Dominic Draper said:

There was really only 2 paths that made sense after BVS IMO.

 

1) Get rid of Snyder right then and hard reboot. Delay or can JL.

2) Let Snyder finish JL with heavy supervision and then dump him after it comes out and bring in a new head to build off the bones with a clear plan. The success of WW and Aquaman showed there may have been a chance. They could have recast affleck and cavill right then and inserted them in. It would be messy but not messier than the bizzare shotgun approach after.

 

WB decision to keep Snyder, then bring in Whedon then not delay JL to get some bonuses is still insane.

 

DC has been a mess, reboots, soft reboots, Sequels that aren't actually sequels, spin offs...none of it had any vision or cohesion. I swear every DC film from 2016 to now had an after credit scene that went nowhere.

 

You can't build an audience trust like that.

 

 

I think the decision to start filming JL just six weeks after BvS opened, with no time to make changes based on BvS's reception, was just plain stupid.

I totally disagree with the idea that somehow, Gunn and Safran have to make nice with the Snyderfanboys. Most of the diehard Snyder fans have already turned on DC; and, frankly, there are not enough of them to make a real diffrence at the box office.

The Snyderverse is dead. I think is has been dead since JL openes, All Gunn and Safran are doing is giving it a decent burial.

[Dominic Draper]

8 minutes ago, dudalb said:

I think the decision to start filming JL just six weeks after BvS opened, with no time to make changes based on BvS's reception, was just plain stupid.

I totally disagree with the idea that somehow, Gunn and Safran have to make nice with the Snyderfanboys. Most of the diehard Snyder fans have already turned on DC; and, frankly, there are not enough of them to make a real diffrence at the box office.

The Snyderverse is dead. I think is has been dead since JL openes, All Gunn and Safran are doing is giving it a decent burial.

It's why a clean hard reboot to me was the smart way to go move forward. It severes ties completley and there is no gray area.

 

Even now, maybe we all have more clarity later, but right now there is still gray area happening of who is staying and who isn't. What's cannon what isn't.

 

If Gunn ultimately decideds its a soft reboot that keeps everything he worked on, that's still messy and confusing and strange and a bad choice. 

 

Hard reboot, wipe the slate clean. No half measures. Should have been done in 2016/2017 still should be done now.

 

[Cmasterclay]

Most of this could have been corrected if they had just realized Zach Snyder was bad after BvS and started from scratch on Justice League with the same actors and a clear visual changeover.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Cmasterclay