The Flash | June 16 2023 | Ezra Miller, Michael Keaton | We’re stoping the count at a Nice 69% RT (it’s 72% For Real) | Please Remember that Your Enjoyment Of The Film is Not Based On Others Opinions And To Be Nice To Each Other

[Willowra]

On 6/4/2023 at 7:34 PM, Willowra said:

from 280 to 220 to 190M, trades are working hard for WB to prevent the narrative of The Flash flopping lol

Variety probably read my comment and rectified the budget figure.

[martin]

2 hours ago, 21C said:

Think about the best scenario for The Flash is 180 WW opening, 3x for a 540 total. 

Still a horrible number, but it's probably the best it could get.

 

Above 500m ,already a win for WB,even AM3 NUMBER is a win for WB.

[Issac Newton]

China P/N Ratio

 

1657 Positive (Only 1 Negative) per Maoyan 

[John Marston]

18 minutes ago, martin said:

Above 500m ,already a win for WB,even AM3 NUMBER is a win for WB.

 

500m from a 180m opening doesn’t seem possible at all? Especially when it opens everywhere this weekend 

[YSLDC]

26 minutes ago, Issac Newton said:

China P/N Ratio

 

1657 Positive (Only 1 Negative) per Maoyan 

 

So how big can the opening weekend be? Can it make Guardians money?

[JWR]

14 hours ago, Cmasterclay said:

I'll add even further on to that - given his combination of domineering style plus mediocre results in his previous films, it was always a bad choice to hire him in the first place. I said as much at the time but then the amazing Man of Steel trailers tricked me.

 

It did have compelling trailers.

[XXRDJisDoctorDoom]

29 minutes ago, YSLDC said:

 

So how big can the opening weekend be? Can it make Guardians money?

No, it can’t.

[Mulder]

How does like every DC thread on here become the Zack Snyder debate club thread.

[AJG]

3 hours ago, EdgeLord4Lyf said:

Zack Snyder left WB 6 years ago. There's been 10 DCEU movies between The Flash and BvS.

 

If BvS is to blame for DC's image in 2023, that only means the last 7-8 DCEU movies did nothing to improve the brand image. Were they so mediocre/bland? Mind you, ZS has been gone a long time, these new movies have been critically well received, championed by DC fans as "step in the right direction", and WB has incorporated all the things fans vocally complained about like light tone, humor, bright colors etc, nostalgia etc. Yet, its the early DCEU movies that made money, and the latest batch of movies have all have lost money.

 

 

Zack Snyder and the earlier DC movies are 100% the root cause for the problems that this franchise face, and trying to re-contextualise history like this will not work. A Superman movie making less money than Guardians of the Galaxy. A Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman team up movie ending up with only slightly-more-than-half of what Marvel's B-List Avengers movie brought in.

 

The DCEU had a product launch malfunction and the stench of that launch follows it to this day. Terrible movies are one thing, terrible movies that everyone saw are a problem. The three piece combo of MOS, BVS, and Suicide Squad told the public that the DCEU was a loud, self-serious, colourless dirge that could often be incomprehensible.

They lined themselves up as almost an Anti-Marvel. Forcefully turning IP, that for the most part are virtually identical to Marvels, into mis-shaped monsters in an effort to 'compete'. This didn't help and brought about comparisons to Disney's franchise that became relentless. DC had successes since, but not Marvels success. DC has had failures, but not Marvels failures. DC Comics and Marvel Comics go above and beyond to try and not incite comparisons and rivalries like this. In turn, both Marvels comic books and DCs comics benefit from the success of the other. WB should've paid more attention to them.

 

At the end of the day the DCEU story is a lot like the story of another 2013 product launch disaster:

 

 

Xbox are paying dearly for this debut in ways they never could've considered in 2013. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by AJG

[ZattMurdock]

6 minutes ago, AJG said:

 

Zack Snyder and earlier DC movies are 100% the root cause for the problems that this franchised face, and trying to re-contextualise history like this will not work. A Superman movie making less money than Guardians of the Galaxy. A Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman team up movie ending up with slightly more than half of what Marvel's B-List Avengers movie brought in.

 

The DCEU had a product launch malfunction and the stench of that launch follows it to this day. Terrible movies are one thing, terrible movies that everyone saw are a problem. The three piece combo of MOS, BVS, and Suicide Squad told the public that the DCEU was a loud, self-serious, colourless dirge that could often be incomprehensible. They lined themselves up as almost an Anti-Marvel. Forcefully turning IP, that for the most part are virtually identical to Marvels, into mis-shaped monsters in an effort to 'compete'. This didn't help and brought about comparisons to Disney's franchise that became relentless. DC had successes since, but not Marvels success. DC has had failures, but not Marvels failures. DC Comics and Marvel Comics go above and beyond to try and not incite comparisons and rivalries like this. In turn, both Marvels comic books and DCs comics benefit from the success of the other. WB should've paid more attention to them.

 

At the end of the day the DCEU story is a lot like the story of another 2013 product launch disaster:

 

 

Xbox are paying dearly for this debut in ways they never could've considered in 2013. 

Console wars and franchise wars gotta end. I feel like with James Gunn taking over, we are getting exactly that, at least when it comes to Marvel and DC.

[kayumanggi]

1 hour ago, Krissykins said:

I know a lot of the conversation is around CGI, but I wanted to say that the actress who plays his Mum gives an incredible performance. There’s something about her performance that was really moving. 
 

Particularly in one scene, Ezra is great in that moment too. It was really touching. 

 

I very much agree. One of the best parts of the movie.

[John Marston]

48 minutes ago, AJG said:

 

Zack Snyder and the earlier DC movies are 100% the root cause for the problems that this franchise face, and trying to re-contextualise history like this will not work. A Superman movie making less money than Guardians of the Galaxy. A Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman team up movie ending up with only slightly-more-than-half of what Marvel's B-List Avengers movie brought in.

 

The DCEU had a product launch malfunction and the stench of that launch follows it to this day. Terrible movies are one thing, terrible movies that everyone saw are a problem. The three piece combo of MOS, BVS, and Suicide Squad told the public that the DCEU was a loud, self-serious, colourless dirge that could often be incomprehensible.

They lined themselves up as almost an Anti-Marvel. Forcefully turning IP, that for the most part are virtually identical to Marvels, into mis-shaped monsters in an effort to 'compete'. This didn't help and brought about comparisons to Disney's franchise that became relentless. DC had successes since, but not Marvels success. DC has had failures, but not Marvels failures. DC Comics and Marvel Comics go above and beyond to try and not incite comparisons and rivalries like this. In turn, both Marvels comic books and DCs comics benefit from the success of the other. WB should've paid more attention to them.

 

At the end of the day the DCEU story is a lot like the story of another 2013 product launch disaster:

 

 

Xbox are paying dearly for this debut in ways they never could've considered in 2013. 

 

 

 

 

Zack Snyder hasn’t had a theatrically released DC movie since 2016. Saying he is to blame for movies like Birds of Prey, WW84, Black Adam, Shazam 2, and this is a gigantic stretch 

[excel1]

3 hours ago, yak said:

If any DCEU properties have hurt The Flash, it's more likely been Black Adam, Shazam FOTG and WW84. 

 

All three have had poor runs, poor reviews and have been hammered by the media. That's more likely to impact the general public's perception of the quality of the Flash than MoS or BvS which were years ago.

 

The one hope for The Flash is WOM. If audience reviews remain strong, the movie has the potential to get stronger than expected walkups. 

 

Different markets, but both China & Korea have seen positive spikes off the back of good WOM this week. Unfortunately it's late, but it does give a glimmer of hope the movie might have some legs.

 

What a brilliant opening post. Welcome to BOT.  

[excel1]

1 hour ago, XXRkham Asylum said:

No, it can’t.

 

Maybe not opening weekend, but WOM from all accounts appears outright phenomenal. A long leggy run is in store. 

[XXRDJisDoctorDoom]

10 minutes ago, excel1 said:

 

Maybe not opening weekend, but WOM from all accounts appears outright phenomenal. A long leggy run is in store. 

Perhaps the legs will be good but the base is so low that it’s not going to catch GOTG3 in China, which already has great legs/WOM on much larger opening.

[JustLurking]

3 hours ago, yak said:

If any DCEU properties have hurt The Flash, it's more likely been Black Adam, Shazam FOTG and WW84. 

 

All three have had poor runs, poor reviews and have been hammered by the media. That's more likely to impact the general public's perception of the quality of the Flash than MoS or BvS which were years ago.

 

The one hope for The Flash is WOM. If audience reviews remain strong, the movie has the potential to get stronger than expected walkups. 

 

Different markets, but both China & Korea have seen positive spikes off the back of good WOM this week. Unfortunately it's late, but it does give a glimmer of hope the movie might have some legs.

What is the positive spike in SK though. Presales aren't ramping up, in fact it's about to be overtaken by elementals which will probably win the opening there. I'm not seeing any signs of a breakout to be honest.

 

Just because I said 5 and then agreed with legion on 7-9 being more likely doesn't mean it spiked, just that I was too harsh lol

Edited June 15, 2023 by JustLurking

[Darth Lehnsherr]

Enjoyed it alot! Has a really good emotional core that when the movie is about that it works really well. Ezra Miller is really good and really does carry this film. Keaton's Batman and Supergirl are decent additions but the extra stuff with Zod and others the less said the better.

 

As an "endpoint" to the DCEU I wonder if this confuses audiences more than clarifies the new direction DC is going but I guess maybe they didn't decide to change that much after Gunn's hiring. 

 

As far as overall with this BO it just shows DC has a long way to winning the GA back in regards to a shared DC universe. Not to say DC films can't do well clearly they can as shown with The Batman but right now no DC film is getting a boost by simply being a film from the DC Universe.

[Willowra]

25 minutes ago, John Marston said:

 

 

 

 

Zack Snyder hasn’t had a theatrically released DC movie since 2016. Saying he is to blame for movies like Birds of Prey, WW84, Black Adam, Shazam 2, and this is a gigantic stretch 

And calling the Avengers "B-Listers" is a crime. The link below is "The Top 100 Comics of December 2008". You'll find Thor, Captain America, and the Hulk in the top 50, along with Avengers comics, and the number one comic of that month was Secret Invasion.

 

https://www.diamondcomics.com/Article/79170-Top-100-Comics-December-2008

[AJG]

18 minutes ago, Willowra said:

And calling the Avengers "B-Listers" is a crime. The link below is "The Top 100 Comics of December 2008". You'll find Thor, Captain America, and the Hulk in the top 50, along with Avengers comics, and the number one comic of that month was Secret Invasion.

 

https://www.diamondcomics.com/Article/79170-Top-100-Comics-December-2008

 

Those are comic book sales. To the public, characters like Blade, Punisher, X-Men, and The Fantastic Four we're way more know than The Avengers.

[excel1]

3 minutes ago, AJG said:

 

Those are comic book sales. To the public, characters like Blade, Punisher, X-Men, and The Fantastic Four we're way more know than The Avengers.

 

Avengers opening weekend heavily benefited from the novelty angle + incredible word of mouth. It was pretty insane to see them all team up. It's opening weekend was $170 when the 3D surcharges were removed, so it was in the same zip code as TDK, Spidey 3, and Transformers 2 for late 2000s megaopeners. No doubt that Dark Knight Rises would have soundly topped that $170m figure without the horrific buzzkill massacre though

Edited June 15, 2023 by excel1