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Eric the Jigsaw Killer

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4 hours ago, wildphantom said:

Does anybody want to have a go at explaining Kat’s events during the car chase. 
 

it seems she gets taken into the chase by an inverted Sator whilst she’s not inverted. Then threatened so JDW will give up where the ‘plutonium’ really is.  He then rescues her. 
 

My biggest question is at what point does she get shot. Is it before she’s even taken out into the chase, only the injury isn’t visible as it was with an inverted bullet? 
It’s not like she gets taken in and shot AFTER the chase, so when does it occur? 

I'll have a go at it but when it comes to the inverted bullets I was going along with what the film was telling me about them which is fairly (possibly intentionally) vague and when you get into that is where it gets a bit difficult. 

 

Kat at no point is inverted through the chase, so from her POV an inverted backwards moving Branagh is popping her into a her a car, holding a gun to her head etc. Pretty similar to what we're seeing play out on screen. She then gets taken with JDW and put into the room by inverted Branagh where he's talking backwards and he shoots her with the inverted bullet. 

 

Here's we come into the perspective thing, from the bullets POV it has already shot Kat because it's moving backwards in time.

But from Kats POV she has not been shot yet because the bullet has yet the rewind backwards through her body which she reacts to after and it gives her an injury. The blood/wound is visible only after it happens and she screams after. 

 

We see a similar thing at the start of the film when Neil saves JDW at the Opera House, the bullet has been shot but it's the inversion of when it reverses back into the gun is what takes out the guy trying to kill JDW. 

That's the basics AFAIK.

 

Spoiler

 

Things get muddled when we start looking into the effects inverted bullets have. You can see the holes from they've been shot so their environmental effects are also inverted (the bullet holes are already there and they repair themselves as the bullet pops backwards).

I also reckon some bodily effects are inverted (though it's not completely clear), there's a bit when inverted JDW realises he has a wound on his arm their way back to the airport which steadily gets worse, what I took away was it's a wound from something that hasn't happened yet from his current POV (the fight with himself), but for whatever reason in this case the bodily effects are inverted (because JDW is also inverted possibly, I'm not too sure). 

I don't think the film wants you to think too hard about that stuff and just go along with it, I didn't even until you posed the question. It does make you head spin a bit though. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, FilmFincher said:

I'll have a go at it but when it comes to the inverted bullets I was going along with what the film was telling me about them which is fairly (possibly intentionally) vague and when you get into that is where it gets a bit difficult. 

 

Kat at no point is inverted through the chase, so from her POV an inverted backwards moving Branagh is popping her into a her a car, holding a gun to her head etc. Pretty similar to what we're seeing play out on screen. She then gets taken with JDW and put into the room by inverted Branagh where he's talking backwards and he shoots her with the inverted bullet. 

 

Here's we come into the perspective thing, from the bullets POV it has already shot Kat because it's moving backwards in time.

But from Kats POV she has not been shot yet because the bullet has yet the rewind backwards through her body which she reacts to after and it gives her an injury. The blood/wound is visible only after it happens and she screams after. 

 

We see a similar thing at the start of the film when Neil saves JDW at the Opera House, the bullet has been shot but it's the inversion of when it reverses back into the gun is what takes out the guy trying to kill JDW. 

That's the basics AFAIK.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 


Ok. So we’re saying that she has technically been shot already when she’s in the car. But because the bullet’s inverted and she’s not that it just hasn’t taken hold yet? 
 

Or am I still reading it wrong? Lol

 

maybe it would be easier to explain the order of everything that Branagh does. 
 

edit.... ok so I’m now thinking she gets shot after being rescued by JDW. Which I think is what you were saying. Then taken from the blue room to the red one before they invert her through the machine. Which must mean that the Kat we see in the car was picked up at some point off screen and the only Kat we see in the blue room is after the car chase events. 

Edited by wildphantom
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7 hours ago, wildphantom said:


Ok. So we’re saying that she has technically been shot already when she’s in the car. But because the bullet’s inverted and she’s not that it just hasn’t taken hold yet? 
 

Or am I still reading it wrong? Lol

 

maybe it would be easier to explain the order of everything that Branagh does. 
 

edit.... ok so I’m now thinking she gets shot after being rescued by JDW. Which I think is what you were saying. Then taken from the blue room to the red one before they invert her through the machine. Which must mean that the Kat we see in the car was picked up at some point off screen and the only Kat we see in the blue room is after the car chase events. 

Yeah I think it's like how your edit is saying, sorry if I explained it poorly! It's quite difficult to word with all the inversion happening lol. 

The shooting is all after the chase and being rescued by JDW. 

 

After she gets beaten by Branagh (the bit where he gets very shouty and drops the F bomb), it's presumed she's placed into a car off screen.

 

For Branagh that's towards the end of his POV because he's moving in reverse at the point, he goes from being normal and listening to everything that's happening during the chase so he knows what to do. To running into the inversion machine when ATJ and the team raids the place. He then performs everything backwards, shooting Kat, interrogating JDW, then getting into the shootout, then the car chase, then setting inverted JDW's car on fire. 

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3 hours ago, FilmFincher said:

Yeah I think it's like how your edit is saying, sorry if I explained it poorly! It's quite difficult to word with all the inversion happening lol. 

The shooting is all after the chase and being rescued by JDW. 

 

After she gets beaten by Branagh (the bit where he gets very shouty and drops the F bomb), it's presumed she's placed into a car off screen.

 

For Branagh that's towards the end of his POV because he's moving in reverse at the point, he goes from being normal and listening to everything that's happening during the chase so he knows what to do. To running into the inversion machine when ATJ and the team raids the place. He then performs everything backwards, shooting Kat, interrogating JDW, then getting into the shootout, then the car chase, then setting inverted JDW's car on fire. 


you didn’t explain it poorly - it’s hard to articulate! 
 

when Branagh runs into the machine once ATJ and co arrive there’s no way he even interacts with Kat at that point surely? As he hasn’t got to the part where he drags her in there to shoot her until after the chase?

 

But then he can’t drag her in there after the chase as there’s no way he can get back to that point whilst still inverted. So he must have shot her before getting into the chase. Arrrrghhhhh, it’s such a head fuck. 

Edited by wildphantom
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On 9/7/2020 at 11:18 AM, wildphantom said:


you didn’t explain it poorly - it’s hard to articulate! 
 

when Branagh runs into the machine once ATJ and co arrive there’s no way he even interacts with Kat at that point surely? As he hasn’t got to the part where he drags her in there to shoot her until after the chase?

 

But then he can’t drag her in there after the chase as there’s no way he can get back to that point whilst still inverted. So he must have shot her before getting into the chase. Arrrrghhhhh, it’s such a head fuck. 

Yeah because Branaghs inverted, he's shooting Kat and then getting into the chase because he's moving backwards in time.

So from Kats POV she's been dragged in to the room but from inverted Branaghs POV he's dragging her outside to the chase.

 

I really love how the film shows it because we follow regular Branagh running into the Turnstile when ATJ+Co arrive and then when he pops out the other end inverted you can see them all rewinding on the other side and he does the interrogation with JDW again but for Branagh the other side is reversed. It's really crazy. 

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6 hours ago, FilmFincher said:

Yeah because Branaghs inverted, he's shooting Kat and then getting into the chase because he's moving backwards in time.

So from Kats POV she's been dragged in to the room but from inverted Branaghs POV he's dragging her outside to the chase.

 

I really love how the film shows it because we follow regular Branagh running into the Turnstile when ATJ+Co arrive and then when he pops out the other end inverted you can see them all rewinding on the other side and he does the interrogation with JDW again but for Branagh the other side is reversed. It's really crazy. 


it is mad. 
 

Very difficult to get your head around that from her point of view she doesn’t get shot until after the chase - or does she?
 

I still can’t really understand where she ‘starts’ from the blue room. How did she get in there in the first place?

 

there seem to be some people saying she’s put in a car off screen after getting kicked by Branagh before he inverts. 
Then there’s others saying she was put in the blue side by Sator’s men before JDW is interrogated. 
Then there’s some saying an inverted Branagh drags her in there - which I think we agree on - he doesn’t. 
 

there can only be ONE Kat in the entire sequence until she’s inverted to heal. So how does she get on that blue side and who puts her there? 

Edited by wildphantom
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2 hours ago, wildphantom said:


it is mad. 
 

Very difficult to get your head around that from her point of view she doesn’t get shot until after the chase - or does she?
 

I still can’t really understand where she ‘starts’ from the blue room. How did she get in there in the first place?

 

there seem to be some people saying she’s put in a car off screen after getting kicked by Branagh before he inverts. 
Then there’s others saying she was put in the blue side by Sator’s men before JDW is interrogated. 
Then there’s some saying an inverted Branagh drags her in there - which I think we agree on - he doesn’t. 
 

there can only be ONE Kat in the entire sequence until she’s inverted to heal. So how does she get on that blue side and who puts her there? 

The blue room stuff is still after the chase from her POV. Both her and JDW get grabbed after he saves her from the vehicle.

JDW gets placed in the red room and from Kats POV she's taken into the blue room by inverted Sator/Branagh. It's just from Branagh's POV he's moving the opposite way through time. So for him he's taking her out of the blue room after interrogating JDW and then getting into the car chase.

They're both just moving opposite ways through time but in the same event.

 

For Kat she gets beaten by regular Branagh then placed in a car where there's an inverted Branagh, then proceeds to get into the car chase, JDW saves Kat, they both get caught, she gets taken into the blue room by an inverted Branagh, JDW is taken to the red, interrogation and then shot with inverted bullet and so on. 

 

For Branagh he beats her, waits for the heist and car chase to be over while having everything that's happened relayed to him for a tactical advantage for when he inverts.

The next time we see him (chronologically from his POV) is when he shows up in the red room with JDW to further interrogate him (Which is when JDW says he's already told future inverted Branagh what he wants to know, who's watching on the other side in the blue room). Then ATJ/CO attack, Branagh runs into the turnstile and inverts. Inverted Branagh then does the interrogation with JDW from his side/shoots Kat, takes her out of the blue room and so on.

 

You have to think of them (Inverted Branagh and Kat) as two independent objects moving opposite ways in time. Both have their own perspective on the events. 

 

 

To further add on to his idea of perspective think about the plane heist. When JDW/Neil break in we think JDW is fighting an inverted faceless goon. At the end of the fight it seems like the goon gets sucked out under the door out of the facility by a jet engine.

 

Then when we come back to it later we seen the goon is inverted JDW, and from his POV he gets blown under the door into the facility from the jet engine (because it's inverted) and into the fight with himself. 

 

They're two objects moving opposite ways in time but caught in the same event and in direct interactions with each other. 

Edited by FilmFincher
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2 hours ago, FilmFincher said:

The blue room stuff is still after the chase from her POV. Both her and JDW get grabbed after he saves her from the vehicle.

JDW gets placed in the red room and from Kats POV she's taken into the blue room by inverted Sator/Branagh. It's just from Branagh's POV he's moving the opposite way through time. So for him he's taking her out of the blue room after interrogating JDW and then getting into the car chase.

They're both just moving opposite ways through time but in the same event.

 

For Kat she gets beaten by regular Branagh then placed in a car where there's an inverted Branagh, then proceeds to get into the car chase, JDW saves Kat, they both get caught, she gets taken into the blue room by an inverted Branagh, JDW is taken to the red, interrogation and then shot with inverted bullet and so on. 

 

For Branagh he beats her, waits for the heist and car chase to be over while having everything that's happened relayed to him for a tactical advantage for when he inverts.

The next time we see him (chronologically from his POV) is when he shows up in the red room with JDW to further interrogate him (Which is when JDW says he's already told future inverted Branagh what he wants to know, who's watching on the other side in the blue room). Then ATJ/CO attack, Branagh runs into the turnstile and inverts. Inverted Branagh then does the interrogation with JDW from his side/shoots Kat, takes her out of the blue room and so on.

 

You have to think of them (Inverted Branagh and Kat) as two independent objects moving opposite ways in time. Both have their own perspective on the events. 

 

 

To further add on to his idea of perspective think about the plane heist. When JDW/Neil break in we think JDW is fighting an inverted faceless goon. At the end of the fight it seems like the goon gets sucked out under the door out of the facility by a jet engine.

 

Then when we come back to it later we seen the goon is inverted JDW, and from his POV he gets blown under the door into the facility from the jet engine (because it's inverted) and into the fight with himself. 

 

They're two objects moving opposite ways in time but caught in the same event and in direct interactions with each other. 


explained it perfectly there. 100% agree with you - I think! 
 

I’ll mull this over in my head tonight.  I agree with you, but it’s hard to accept when you look at it in terms of free will. What happens happens I guess! 

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I don't know if they explained it in one of the scenes where the score drowned out the dialogue, but did they ever say a reason exactly how being shot with an inverted bullet is worse than a regular one? At first I thought it was because the bullet would still be inside her (and thus much, much harder to remove since it's inverted), but since the whole idea is that the bullet returns to the gun it isn't clear as to how exactly her injury is worse than a regular gunshot.

Edited by SpiderByte
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3 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

I don't know if they explained it in one of the scenes where the score drowned out the dialogue, but did they ever say a reason exactly how being shot with an inverted bullet is worse than a regular one? At first I thought it was because the bullet would still be inside her (and thus much, much harder to remove since it's inverted), but since the whole idea is that the bullet returns to the gun it isn't clear as to how exactly her injury is worse than a regular gunshot.

I think in that scene right after she's shot they mention how it causes inverse radiation which will kill her in hours and by inverting her they can stabilise her which takes days. 

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Why is this movie called TENET?

 

At the start, the guy says "I have a word for you - Tenet - it will open some doors for you."

 

Then we literally never hear the word spoken again. 

 

There's a repeated phrase that seems to "open some doors" (cant remember what the phrase was) but not Tenet.

 

Anyone can explain?

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Tenet is the name of the organisation they all work for, but yes the movie 100% should obviously have been called INVERSION to go with insomnia, interstellar, inception. maybe he didn't want more than 3 in- movies, or maybe he was so determined to have the title be a palindrome idk.

Edited by CoolioD1
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4 minutes ago, CoolioD1 said:

Tenet is the name of the organisation they all work for, but yes the movie 100% should obviously have been called INVERSION to go with insomnia, interstellar, inception. maybe he didn't want more than 3 in- movies, or maybe he was so determined to have the title be a palindrome idk.

That would have been a better title.

 

 

 

 

I'm reading the plot on wikipedia and first thing it says is the Protagonist is a CIA agent. I didn't even realise that he is a spy when I watched the film. Wtf.

 

Half of me wants to watch it again so I can understand it. The other half of me says who cares, the film should have been understandable the first time round. Doesn't deserve a second viewing. 

 

 

 @wildphantom  I can't believe you compared it to The Prestige 😕

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3 hours ago, tree said:

That would have been a better title.

 

 

 

 

I'm reading the plot on wikipedia and first thing it says is the Protagonist is a CIA agent. I didn't even realise that he is a spy when I watched the film. Wtf.

 

Half of me wants to watch it again so I can understand it. The other half of me says who cares, the film should have been understandable the first time round. Doesn't deserve a second viewing. 

 

 

 @wildphantom  I can't believe you compared it to The Prestige 😕

 

Sounds like you need that second viewing. We learn he’s CIA a couple of times in the opening 15 minutes. 
 

it’ll click for you tree. Give it that second viewing and it’ll all fall into place. 

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I'm seeing it for a second time today so I'm interested to see how it plays. I've watched some explanation videos and read some stuff on Reddit to try to wrap my brain around it and I think I've managed to get more clarity on some aspects, but I guess I'll see for sure in a couple of hours. :D

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7 hours ago, wildphantom said:

 

Sounds like you need that second viewing. We learn he’s CIA a couple of times in the opening 15 minutes. 
 

it’ll click for you tree. Give it that second viewing and it’ll all fall into place. 

Yeah I don't doubt a second viewing would help me understand it.

 

I just think it should have made sense the first time round.

 

The Prestige is a fab film the first time you watch it. Second viewing turns it upside down and changes the way the film plays.

 

With this, a second viewing just helps you understand the plot.... I don't see its worth it.

 

I'm sure I'll rewatch it at some point when it comes to Netflix, but I don't have the patience to do it again in the cinema tbh.

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