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Eric Riley

SHANG-CHI WEEKEND THREAD | NO SPOILERS | 75.38M 3-Day, 94.67M 4-Day. Record for Labor Day! | Tony Leung saved the theater! | Get Vaccinated and Wear a mask.

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19 minutes ago, Cap said:

 

Please stay.  @MrPink, people get her to stay.  And where is @Chewy?

I have missed a lot of big changes around here so this must have been super late but congrats on becoming Admin! So fitting and deserved! 
 

Also I was getting a bit worried that other staff been letting Tele getting away with too much nonsense around here, so it’s good we at least have you on our side to reel him in. 

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5 minutes ago, Menor said:

I don't think 2 movies doing 1 billion OS qualifies as consistency. F6 did around 550 OS in the same year that Iron Man 3 did 800. F9 in normalcy may have done around 700 OS which has been done by MCU movies like FFH, CM. 

The difference between MCU movies & F films was that superhero genre was limited to certain audience. Post Infinity War that did improve, giving the films look of Harry Potter, LoTR type franchises.

 

There has been jumps in many Overseas markets, pre & post IW.

 

That genre thing had big impact in China with F9 hitting $400M while MCU solos stuck at $100-130M. Now with drop in F9 & H&S to $200M level and MCU rising up to $200M level, there isn't much difference between MCU medium solos like CM, FFH and FnF films. MCU smaller solos like Shang Chi would end up lower for now.

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13 minutes ago, charlie Jatinder said:

Who said anything about them being big. I said its their job to bring the films here.

 

They buy the films, release it here. For awards stuff studios like Searchlight, SPC, do release these films but rarely.

I'm not sure if you're just being intentionally obtuse here, but you do realise none of these studios can afford to buy many films and give them proper theatrical and home video releases right? That is literally my point. I would say the larger Hollywood studios should get in and try to give these films some proper distribution instead of making their own worse try-hard versions of them.

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6 minutes ago, Sam said:

Also I was getting a bit worried that other staff been letting Tele getting away with too much nonsense around here, so it’s good we at least have you on our side to reel him in. 

 

@Plain Old Tele

 

Kieran Culkin Hbo GIF by SuccessionHBO

 

Should you tell her or I?

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59 minutes ago, Chicago said:

 

They shouldn't be ignored, but TFA was bigger than any Potter movie overseas but you won't hear anyone say the SW franchise is bigger than Potter overseas as a whole. Yeah Endgame was huge, and IW likely sold a similar amount of tickets to F7 overseas given 3D but no fast and furious movie has made less than 550m overseas in the past decade. Just this year alone F9 has dwarfed everything OS. I think you have to give it to the franchise for it's consistency. Before then pandemic no solo MCU movies were putting up them kind of numbers, it took the end of an epic 24 movie saga without putting a foot wrong to achieve that height yet Dom and fam was doing it just by simply driving cars into submarines.

 

Avengers movies have always been monster overseas.

 

That's long before Avengers 4 approached 3 billion.

 

And driving cars into submarines can only keep people interested for so long. How much gas is left in that franchise's tank?

 

They want to go to space and battle aliens but can they?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

I would say the larger Hollywood studios should get in and try to give these films some proper distribution

A bit like when they did it with some Jackie Chan movies back in the day, I think Miramax-Dimensions Film-Weinstein is something they did for non Hollywood but Americans (new-York based) companies.

 

I wonder what changed:

https://www.indiewire.com/2014/05/the-lonely-subtitle-heres-why-u-s-audiences-are-abandoning-foreign-language-films-27051/

https://www.indiewire.com/2014/05/american-provincialism-and-the-disappearance-of-foreign-language-cinema-134168/

 

Could have been audience.

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18 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

I'm not sure if you're just being intentionally obtuse here, but you do realise none of these studios can afford to buy many films and give them proper theatrical and home video releases right? That is literally my point. I would say the larger Hollywood studios should get in and try to give these films some proper distribution instead of making their own worse try-hard versions of them.

Well that apply to all the industries not just Asian. How many French films get regular big release. How many Indian films get big release.

 

Will the non-diaspora audience willing to watch them? Can the money spent on marketing them earn back, and so on.

 

You named one Crouching Dragon which won big at Oscars. There are couple of others like Hero, House of Flying Dragons, Fearless, etc. But Sony also released bunch of others that didn't do $5M even including Lagaan back in those days.

 

Also when a film does certain amount, the next films are sold at those expectations which is risk to acquire with possibly low returns. That is what I suppose must have happened in early 2000s.

 

WGU is releasing Chinese films recently and they are reaching the diaspora grossing $4-8M like Indian movies.

 

Edited by charlie Jatinder
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8 minutes ago, charlie Jatinder said:

Will the non-diaspora audience willing to watch them? Can the money spent on marketing them earn back, and so on.

Well, can't answer those questions without trying. If a faux-Hong Kong/wuxia action film is able to open to such big levels and more importantly have great WoM, why can't an actual action film from those countries (that are also pretty good crowdpleasers) do well? And we've had actual movies from those countries do well and resonate with a "non-dispora audience" too.

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6 hours ago, Valonqar said:

 

Not only HK. I see these reactions everywhere and I definitely felt as if Simu Liu was just there for other actors to act off of rather than the other way around. IMO, he's Jai Coutney/Sam Worthington/Anthony Mackie low level charisma. One of rare MCU IPs where the hero is whatever and upstaged by all of the supporting cast while the villain is the standout. Not a deal breaker because other cast members including cameos are really entertaining and energetic. But yeah not the jackpot with this one. Low tier Marvel lead for sure. 

 

 

  

5 hours ago, Valonqar said:

Secondary villains and characters stand out when they are better written and/or have more charismatic actors. Luke's character arc is fantastic but Harrison Ford in his prime was one true star charisma, what X Factor is all about. Even with lackluster ROTJ (which was where Luke shone), Han remained the most popular SW character together with Vader thanks to Ford's effortless charisma. OTOH, you have a dominant leading man such as RDJ/Stark who never got upstaged by anyone. So protagonist can be interesting and charismatic but writing and actor aren't always there which opens the door for supporting ones to dominate. 

 

I think you're on to something here. SC's plot was outdated and cliched overall, the type of antagonist like Wenwu isn't something entirely brand new for the East Asian community either, but the way Tony conveyed his character, combined with his charismatic screen presence, down to every small detail and gesture was very spot on. When like 90% of the reviews come to the same conclusions of what were the weak parts of the film then it can't be "selected point of view" any more. 
They already criticized Marvel's casting choice for Shang Chi but some still held out hope that at least the actor might be charming on-screen (like Jackie Chan wasn't considered as a very handsome actor when he was young and he didn't star in very unique or Oscar-worthy scripts either but most East Asian person agreed that his performance was entertaining to watch), but now the selling point of the SC for them is the 60-year-old actor who played the antagonist role. I even saw young Korean moviegoers on Twitter joked around about how they're gushing over Wenwu even though normally they aren't interested in old actors, especially someone who is as old as their dad like Leung. It went far to the point that one of the Korean television channels even mentioned it. As a superhero who played a major role in an action film, Shang Chi had more spectacular things to do than Wenwu, but it turns out most people are in awe of the lovesick widower villain. I know Hollywood and Western are fond of Simu and Awkwafina but it will be interesting to see how they adjust the sequels based on the reactions of the markets they want to cater to.

 

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13 minutes ago, charlie Jatinder said:

WGU is releasing Chinese films recently and they are reaching the diaspora grossing $4-8M like Indian movies.

 

Well Go Usa gives them very, very limited releases. I just started off this conversation with a very recent example of this.

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@Arian1010 Are you from Korea? Interesting feedback! I love hearing feedback from different countries. I see you are new (number of posts) so you should definitely check out our International Forum where boxoffice per country is discussed and drop a line. :)

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11 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

If a faux-Hong Kong/wuxia action film is able to open to such big levels and more importantly have great WoM, why can't an actual action film from those countries

Sure. And it's you who know that better films exist because you are the film nerd. You are not general audience who don't care. Who's gonna bring those white folks to watch these movies with a very little reward to risk.

 

I was asking @SchumacherFTW other day that sub standard UK films based on Indians or in India do $20-30M in UK while actual Indian movies struggle to do 5% of that.

 

I know the answer that they don't get the marketing as those sub standard films. Now say I am Sony and marketed 3 Idiots and it did $20M in UK. Sure I will make big money of that, but next Aamir Khan movie will be selling at $7-8M, will that risk pay off? Who's gonna stop the next Aamir Khan movie producer to do release the film himself, I got the 3 Idiots to mainstream and someone else gonna reap the rewards. Its the cycle.

 

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11 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

Well Go Usa gives them very, very limited releases. I just started off this conversation with a very recent example of this.

And that's totally fine. If they see enough white audience come up or film has interest in awards sections they will start widening the release. 

 

For now they cater to the diaspora, and they are happy with it.

 

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Wuxia isn't a novelty now that streaming devices carry wuxia dramas and they are very popular in particular The Untaimed. Type The Untamed on Tumblr and you get shrines upon shrines.  There's quite a few wuxia movies on Netflix too so all in all the genre isn't a novelty anymore. Same goes for Europe. They consume tons of dramas too. So does Brasil. They are everywhere. 

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7 minutes ago, charlie Jatinder said:

Who's gonna stop the next Aamir Khan movie producer to do release the film himself, I got the 3 Idiots to mainstream and someone else gonna reap the rewards. Its the cycle.

 

This is such a weird hypothetical scenario. It's very unlikely a local producer would try to distribute their films internationally just because one of their previous films becomes a hit internationally since it's still expensive for those kinds of studios to try exporting their films to other countries like that. The only one that might reap the rewards is another American distributor and at that point it's no different to how this shit works for Hollywood productions.

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15 minutes ago, charlie Jatinder said:

And that's totally fine. If they see enough white audience come up or film has interest in awards sections they will start widening the release. 

 

For now they cater to the diaspora, and they are happy with it.

 

Nah, extremely limited releases (to the point that I have to travel 1.5 hours to watch) aren't totally fine. They're not catering to anyone besides a couple of cinephiles who live in urban areas of the country. Like Annette (distributed by Amazon) seemed to get a wider release and that was a arthouse musical. You really think a crowdpleasing HK action film wouldn't draw even a larger audience than that film did?

Edited by lorddemaxus
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32 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

Well Go Usa gives them very, very limited releases. I just started off this conversation with a very recent example of this.

Yea, they just released Raging Fire in what - like 59 theaters on 13th August.

Raging Fire is a Donnie Yen movie, and the last directorial work of Benny Chan who passed away last year. It has grossed almost USD180m in China alone; doing well in HK and Singapore as well. RT critics score at 92%, audience score at 100%. I have watched it and it is easily the best movie of 2021 so far. (I have almost never seen a movie with a 5x OW multiple in China before…and this film is doing it!)

 

And guess what, Thanks to WGU’s limited distribution - it won’t even come close to grossing USD1m in domestic theaters…

Edited by TigerPaw
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