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Eric Madrigal

NO TIME TO DIE WEEKEND THREAD | Bond 56M, Venom 32M

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6 minutes ago, Eric Safin said:

So...just to clarify, obviously the Brosnan/Craig films aren't that bad here. However, that doesn't mean there aren't weird, problematic elements that take me out of it nor am I not allowed to complain about them.

 

Skyfall has a moment where Bond discovers Severnine used to be a sex slave, yet still tried to seduce her after the fact, they go on to have sex, and then just gets killed off by the bad guy 10 minutes later. It's all just gross and dumb and bad.

 

And the Brosnan films all try to position themselves as a more forward-thinking Bond, even getting spelled out at one point by Goldeneye. But despite all the deconstruction, the film still...basically plays out with a lot of the sexist aspects of the character and series.

 

I understand it's not as bad, I know some people will disagree with what I'm saying, and I know I'm a whiny SJW cuck, but that's just how I feel, and I think I'm able to still call this stuff out while still enjoying/appreciating what these movies do right.

That is because you are American. Europeans don't mind watching white males seducing woman. It is a concept fine to us.

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I thought No time to die was terrific! I could see why the long run time is turning off the GA though. There’s a lot of story to go through.

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6 minutes ago, Let There Be Legion said:

To be fair, not sure that a moral of “don’t try to sleep with people who used to b sex slaves” would be an improvement. No win situation once you’ve chosen to use that backstory in that situation.

I agree. I just think that they shouldn't have done that backstory in the first place. Just take out the backstory, have her remain as Silva's mistress and assistant, and the problem would have been solved. Bond films do the femme fatale/Bond girl works for the bad guy plot all the time and it was just fine before.

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4 minutes ago, Chicago said:

It depends on the audience. In the UK people don't talk about being offended by a James bond movie. I can get behind the old Sean Connery movies being problematic by the way he pretty much forced women into bed with him but the Brosnan movies were just him having hamless fun after saving the day. And you'd really have to be nit picking to pick a bone with the Craig Era movies,

 

Reread. I was making a whimsical joke based on your typo, not proffering an actual commentary on any Bond movies.

 

For what it's worth I am not a fan of Bond simply because I'm not a fan of action movies in general, but I find any and all popular long running franchises interesting and worth of study regardless of whether I enjoy them, whether that's the MCU or the Carry On films.

 

Also for what it's worth I find the only truly 'problematic' moment in terms of gender dynamics in a Bond movie is the scene with Honor Blackman in Goldfinger. I find that genuinely uncomfortable and unwatchable and wouldn't want it to be repeated. I wouldn't want the movie blacklisted in someway, but its the only one where I think my perception of the movie itself is tainted by something within it. Bond can have as many women as he wants per film, but the one thing you don't mess around with is consent. Other than that while there's stuff that isn't to my taste and I might personally find simplistic/populist for myself, it's not something I'd ever want to take away from others who enjoy that sort of thing.

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13 minutes ago, Eric Safin said:

So...just to clarify, obviously the Brosnan/Craig films aren't that bad here. However, that doesn't mean there aren't weird, problematic elements that take me out of it nor am I not allowed to complain about them.

 

Skyfall has a moment where Bond discovers Severnine used to be a sex slave, yet still tried to seduce her after the fact, they go on to have sex, and then just gets killed off by the bad guy 10 minutes later. It's all just gross and dumb and bad.

 

And the Brosnan films all try to position themselves as a more forward-thinking Bond, even getting spelled out at one point by Goldeneye. But despite all the deconstruction, the film still...basically plays out with a lot of the sexist aspects of the character and series.

 

I understand it's not as bad, I know some people will disagree with what I'm saying, and I know I'm a whiny SJW cuck, but that's just how I feel, and I think I'm able to still call this stuff out while still enjoying/appreciating what these movies do right.

 

But that's what villians do, they do villainy like things to make us hate them. I also don't see why Bond can't consesntially sleep with someone because she used to be a sex slave, if anything that's treating her like damaged goods

 

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56 actually isn't "That" Bad guys.  Come on, everyone should be getting a pass in the Pandemic.   Bond does skew a little older but it's also an "Action" type film so that does collide with "Venom 2" demos.   I think after "Fast 9", "Black Widow", "Shang Chi" and "Venom 2" along with "Free Guy" and "Quiet Place II", I felt we did have way more successes this year than last year.   "Shang Chi" is the first film in almost 2 years to finally pass "Bad Boys For Life" at the Domestic Box Office.    

 

Look we have to keep our expectations at bay during this time.   Last year nothing was making 56 Million OW.    Comic Book/Superhero Films seem to be keeping the box office afloat.   As for Daniel Craig, I think he did well over these last 15 years.   But I grew up on Moore, Dalton and Pierce.   I ended up watching the Connery versions and liked those too.   So he's not my fav Bond but that was a fantastic run he just went on.  I think Overseas should help to sustain if Domestic does disappoint overall.   

Edited by filmscholar
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24 minutes ago, Eric Safin said:

 

And the Brosnan films all try to position themselves as a more forward-thinking Bond, even getting spelled out at one point by Goldeneye. But despite all the deconstruction, the film still...basically plays out with a lot of the sexist aspects of the character and series.

 

 

I can't think of anything in the Brosnan era that isn't just "Hot man meets hot girl and they're horny for each other and have sex that they both enjoy, then a period of time later hot man meets another hot girl...." 

 

Which doesn't strike me as particularly sexist. The women don't seem devalued or without agency in those films, which was the case in some earlier entries. It might be repetitive to you and therefore not the sort of thing you want in your blockbuster movies (they aren't the sort of thing I want either) but not sexist per se.

 

By the way: just to be clear even if I'm disagreeing with you here, I don't want to dismiss your approach or arguments. I have no issue with discussing socio-political aspects of movies and think it's good to do so, so long as we keep from overly censorious conclusions.

Edited by Ipickthiswhiterose
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10 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

Reread. I was making a whimsical joke based on your typo, not proffering an actual commentary on any Bond movies.

 

For what it's worth I am not a fan of Bond simply because I'm not a fan of action movies in general, but I find any and all popular long running franchises interesting and worth of study regardless of whether I enjoy them, whether that's the MCU or the Carry On films.

 

Also for what it's worth I find the only truly 'problematic' moment in terms of gender dynamics in a Bond movie is the scene with Honor Blackman in Goldfinger. I find that genuinely uncomfortable and unwatchable and wouldn't want it to be repeated. I wouldn't want the movie blacklisted in someway, but its the only one where I think my perception of the movie itself is tainted by something within it. Bond can have as many women as he wants per film, but the one thing you don't mess around with is consent. Other than that while there's stuff that isn't to my taste and I might personally find simplistic/populist for myself, it's not something I'd ever want to take away from others who enjoy that sort of thing.

 

I've not seen many of the older Bond movies but some of the ones I saw there was a lack of consent and more an assumption of 'sleep with me now'. These were generally problematic scenes in these older movies that have rightfully been called out since. 

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After seeing NTTD yesterday, I am ready to double down on going back to the lighter/suave Bond. Also more stand alone movies would be a nice change of pace too. 

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Obviously, we'll see what kind of domestic legs NTTD has, but I'm not completely convinced that the takeaway should be skewing younger. International numbers suggest that Bond is as strong as ever.  I mean, many countries are still operating at limited capacity and NTTD has already grossed over $300M WW. With China and Australia upcoming, there's still a shot that NTTD comes in at number 2 or 3 in Hollywood box office takings for the year.

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Correct. 56 million is more than good. 
 

BOT in early September - “move everything to 2022! The sky is falling!”

 

BOT in mid-October - “Bond needs a do-over as it’s only making $700 million plus”. 
 

I’d love to see @EmpireCity’s reaction to some of the Bond meltdowns over the weekend. Although he did predict it and rightly vacated for a few days. 
 

And for those saying people like me are overboard defenders of a franchise we love…well no. We’re just offering a factual comeback to the pile on there’s been the last couple of days. If we hadn’t then the place might have been a cess pool of fake news.  
 

Balance was needed :) 

 

This isn’t meant as a slight at anyone in particular, but there are a few posters on here that really do seem to snark at any dollar not made in the US. 

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3 hours ago, charlie Jatinder said:

since you said so far, Venom 2 ww will be over NTTD. 

Both looking in the $700m range?

 

EDIT: NVM. I saw Charlie's next post

 

I will say about Venom 2's China release date: When's that gonna get announced? IDK how China scheduling works, but I feel like it's weird that they didn't have that locked down considering how big the first one was there. If they don't get a release date there, that would be disastrous (even though the movie would do fine numbers without it).

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https://deadline.com/2021/10/no-time-to-die-weekend-box-office-1234852700/

 

Quote

Monday AM: No Time to Die will wind up at $60M+ over four days, thanks to the Indigenous Peoples’ Day holiday in the Northeast. A $5M-$6M Monday is in store for the Cary Joji Fukunaga-directed MGM/UAR/Eon feature which is in the space of Spectre‘s Monday ($5.3M) back in 2015, and higher than 2008’s Quantum of Solace ($4.1M) and 2006’s Casino Royale (3.8M). Daniel Craig’s turn in Skyfall saw a huge Monday of $11.3M due to the Veterans Day holiday in 2012 falling on a Sunday.

 

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58 minutes ago, Inceptionzq said:

You know BOT is healing when SW has been negatively mentioned multiple times in the past week(not just in this thread).

 

Missed something did I?

 

*reflects*

 

No... Probably not. 👍

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1 minute ago, Porthos said:

 

Missed something did I?

 

*reflects*

 

No... Probably not. 👍

Nothing at all, lol. It was kinda strange though seeing people take random shots at SW across several threads. 

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