May 13-15 Weekend Thread | 67.4% drop for Doctor Strange 2

[EmpireCity]

4 minutes ago, Brainbug the Dinosaur said:

 

I also think some people take/took the MCU's overall quality for granted. But a franchise with 28+ movies having only a few movies where the overall consensus was mixed-to-bad is absoutely unheard of.

 

Exactly.  This run is something that is unprecedented in the history of cinema.  

 

I also think that part of this, and Feige mentioned it in person at CinemaCon, is that the Marvel team has not spent any time in person as a group brainstorming in nearly 3 years before they finally gathered together a few weeks ago for a long retreat.  

 

I think that matters.  Trying to finish these movies under Covid restrictions, remote working and all the other distractions that have gone on will lead to things feeling a bit uneven on both the movie and show side.  

[lorddemaxus]

19 minutes ago, DS2HaterLegion Confirmed said:

#3!   
 

Some people are disappointed in recent quality and think that could lead to BO issues in the future, but it’s like I said last week — as far as GA is concerned the last 5 have been 2 great 2 ok and one bad. It’s not meeting the amazing quality avg of 2014-aeg but it’s hardly some disaster either unless we pile up a few more B’s soon.

Feel like the reception of the shows should be included in here too if were talking futureBO issues. Like, people being low on the falcon show would probably affect how well the next Captain America movie does. 

[exomassey]

9 minutes ago, EmpireCity said:

 

Exactly.  This run is something that is unprecedented in the history of cinema.  

 

I also think that part of this, and Feige mentioned it in person at CinemaCon, is that the Marvel team has not spent any time in person as a group brainstorming in nearly 3 years before they finally gathered together a few weeks ago for a long retreat.  

 

I think that matters.  Trying to finish these movies under Covid restrictions, remote working and all the other distractions that have gone on will lead to things feeling a bit uneven on both the movie and show side.  

Ok I agree. I forgot to take Covid into account. Seems to have had a big effect on Marvel productions.

[EmpireCity]

Let's also not forget what characters and actors we are looking at now versus what you were looking at in prior phases to this and how even more amazing it is what they are doing.  They are deep into their C-List characters now as the A-List talent.  

 

This phase doesn't have the benefit of Iron Man, Captain America and somewhat The Hulk.  Not to mention a very good and popular Black Panther is no longer with us.  

 

The fact that characters like Shang-Chi, Doctor Strange, Wanda, Captain Marvel and others are your A-List and to do as well as they are doing is incredible.  

[exomassey]

4 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

Feel like the reception of the shows should be included in here too if were talking futureBO issues. Like, people being low on the falcon show would probably affect how well the next Captain America movie does. 

Yeah I agree. They need to really surprise us with what the movie offers because there is not really a lot of excitement for a Falcon Captain America movie imo.

 

However I feel the same about an Eternals 2, just no excitement for me to see what they do with that bunch of characters.

[wildphantom]

Strange numbers as expected for everybody who has seen the movie. Not going to be overly recommended for families, and the hardcore have already seen it - likely not going to see this repeatedly in theaters as they did NWH/EG etc. 

 

I don’t put much value in legs on movie sequels that open as big as this. They should be massively frontloaded in theory, and those that do leg it out tend to be the ones that are ecstatically received across all quadrants. 
 

$400 million final will be great for MoM. 

[DTP]

Impressive performance for Nothing Nowhere all at Different Times 

[Legion Again]

1 hour ago, lorddemaxus said:

Feel like the reception of the shows should be included in here too if were talking futureBO issues. Like, people being low on the falcon show would probably affect how well the next Captain America movie does. 

It’s an interesting angle I’ll grant, but I feel like the people who watched FWS are the core fan base who are likely to go to cap 4 anyway, and the more casual peeps who could perhaps be turned off of seeing cap 4 by FWS being weak are more likely to not have bothered seeing FWS in the first place. Similar with Ms Marvel/The Marvels, etc.   

 

Definitely some lost opportunity in the medium quality of the shows so far, and if a majority of minutes of mcu content released are regarded as disappointing that could be a drag on the overall project.

[Legion Again]

1 hour ago, EmpireCity said:

Let's also not forget what characters and actors we are looking at now versus what you were looking at in prior phases to this and how even more amazing it is what they are doing.  They are deep into their C-List characters now as the A-List talent.  

 

This phase doesn't have the benefit of Iron Man, Captain America and somewhat The Hulk.  Not to mention a very good and popular Black Panther is no longer with us.  

 

The fact that characters like Shang-Chi, Doctor Strange, Wanda, Captain Marvel and others are your A-List and to do as well as they are doing is incredible.  

Eh, I dunno about this angle. The infinity saga was also built on the back of C-level characters. Iron Man and Cap are global titans of the genre now, but that’s what the mcu made them — back in 2007 neither of them were much known or draws. Same for Thor, BW, BP. Hulk probably had the biggest pre-MCU draw of phase 1&2 characters and he only got one solo because of rights issues.    
 

The fact that they were hobbled without access to marvel’s actual heavy hitters (mostly owned by Fox and Sony) and still cranked out 23 movies with that reception was insane.

[Krissykins]

What’s the next “Endgame”? Secret Wars? 
 

If that doesn’t beat Endgame then you can certainly talk about a decrease in interest, confirmed. 
 

I don’t buy the work at home/virtual excuse for a second though. Not when some top tier films have just been released and filmed during covid. Black Widow and Multiverse of Madness have been two of the most entertaining MCU films IMO.

 

No Way Home didn’t release at the worst point of the pandemic either, that was a year prior. 

[ImNotRacistAtAll]

4 minutes ago, DS2HaterLegion Confirmed said:

It’s an interesting angle I’ll grant, but I feel like the people who watched FWS are the core fan base who are likely to go to cap 4 anyway, and the more casual peeps who could perhaps be turned off of seeing cap 4 by FWS being weak are more likely to not have bothered seeing FWS in the first place. Similar with Ms Marvel/The Marvels, etc.   

 

Definitely some lost opportunity in the medium quality of the shows so far, and if a majority of minutes of mcu content released are regarded as disappointing that could be a drag on the overall project.

As a MCU fan, I thought FAWS was disappointing in terms of story. 

 

BUT (And this is something I feel about every show actually). One thing it made to me is... really like and care about Sam and Bucky. I never liked these characters as much as I do now after the show. Their chemistry is perfect. Zemo also grew on me a LOT. 

 

And I generalize this in almost every show. While they fail in story, they REALLY nail in main characters most of time : Wanda Vision and Agatha, Sam Bucky and Zemo (liked US Agent to), really liked Mobius and Loki, I LOVED Kate Bishop and Hawkeye together and the recent Moon Knight (didn't like the show finale but Steven and Marc and Khonshu are great additions). And I know MCU fans that really agree with this take.

 

Same with the disappointing movies. Black Widow introduced the amazing Yelena even tho I disliked the movie mostly. Eternals is a mixed bag... But I really liked Makkari, Druig, Kingo, the future Black Knight, Gilgamesh, Sersi and I'm really excited for Starfox (Harry Styles). Unfortunately I think DS2 really failed America Chavez. Unfortunately because the actress is really sweet and young. And I think she didn't nail some facial expressions. Doctor Strange and Wanda are powerhouses still and they will keep evolving with better writing hopefully. Wong is great to. 

 

Shang-Chi was fantastic and introduced Simu as Shang-Chi, which he absolutely kills it and Kate is also great. NWH was great. 

[YM!]

1 hour ago, lorddemaxus said:

Feel like the reception of the shows should be included in here too if were talking futureBO issues. Like, people being low on the falcon show would probably affect how well the next Captain America movie does. 

One benefit for Cap 4 is literally nothing important happens in FATWS, you can pretend the show doesn’t exist and the stretch from EG and Cap 4 pretty much fills in blanks.

[ImNotRacistAtAll]

3 minutes ago, Krissykins said:

What’s the next “Endgame”? Secret Wars? 
 

If that doesn’t beat Endgame then you can certainly talk about a decrease in interest, confirmed. 
 

I don’t buy the work at home/virtual excuse for a second though. Not when some top tier films have just been released and filmed during covid. Black Widow and Multiverse of Madness have been two of the most entertaining MCU films IMO.

 

No Way Home didn’t release at the worst point of the pandemic either, that was a year prior. 

It won't release in China tho. It might beat Endgame  but not by much. 

 

 

[SupermanLego]

2 hours ago, EmpireCity said:

 

This comment and multiple others the last couple pages about the MCU are all cherry picked and highly selective confirmation bias that doesn't seem to be based in reality.  

 

People are talking like the MCU has been on some death spiral or isn't a powerhouse after Endgame.  Seriously?  

 

Since Endgame you have had a global pandemic that ravaged theaters.  Despite that, Black Widow opened up in the middle of it while also day and date and made some decent money after delays and other issues.  

 

Then you had Shang-Chi which was very successful and well received.  

 

Eternals was high concept and did ok.  Was a longer and tougher film that had a more dour and serious tone.  

 

Then you have No Way Home, which also despite being released in the middle of arguably the biggest wave of the pandemic, is the #6 grossing movie of ALL-TIME and would have been #4 if China would have opened it.  Huge, mind boggling numbers and the film is beloved.  

 

Doctor Strange 2 then opens to nearly $200m and will finish likely above $1b.  Thor: Love and Thunder will do the same.  The shows on Disney+ are wildly successful  

 

What are we even talking about here?

While I agree it's hyperbolic some of the responses. The MCU isn't as bad but phase 4 has been a disappointment, there is no denying that plus.

 

BW was a joke for that high of a caliber superhero.

 

Shang chi was Identity politics personified. It was touted as the first Asian superhero movie and was acting like it was the second coming of BP.

 

Eternals flopped, no matter how you spin it. Fiege thought that would be his Oscar contender loooool MCU movies ain't winning any major Oscars anytime soon. Esp Acting/Best Pic.

 

NWH was literally carried by nostalgia. That's all it had it going for which allowed it to make bank. 

 

DS2 is another multiverse event movie. No point citing it as a just a normal "Dr Strange" movie

 

Doubt TLAT will do as big as MoM, It will do great though. Have it as the first 900+ Sh movie.

 

The Disney + shows are diminishing. Drama shows like Euphoria is dominating those shows and Star wars is going to over take those MCU shows in a couple of weeks time.

 

The MCU is far from dying but it is showing some cracks here and there.

 

 

[WorkingonaName]

I completely forgot FATWS existed. 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Been a minute so this post is gonna be a bit longwinded...

 

First off, all of the the Maverick buzz is just awesome. Cruise with his recent Mission Impossible flicks and, now, Maverick is just killing it. Can't wait to catch that one in Dolby.  Some of these 400M +/- DOM projections seem super bullish to me but I'd love to see that happen for sure. I'd expect something like Fallout DOM + maybe 75M to 100M DOM would give it something between just under 300M and just and under 325M DOM.

 

Now, regarding Doctor Strange and Marvel Studios at large at the box office... As others have mentioned, it's not all too shocking that Multiverse of Madness is pretty frontloaded. It's a pretty hardcore Doctor Strange movie. And, in fits and starts, even a pretty hardcore Sam Raimi movie... Of the Army of Darkness and Darkman variety more so than his Spider-man films. It's also, while pretty fun and thankfully merciful in its runtime compared most every other superhero flick these days, pretty messy. It's certainly not, unlike most MCU flicks, ideal for younger kids in the eyes of many parents. And, it's not a big crossover movie that many expected. I had fun with it but knew pretty early on it would be one of if the most most divisive MCU movie in a long, long while.

 

So, yeah, with all that, this isn't all that surprising. Kind of reminds me of when Iron Man 3 hit theaters and A LOT of casuals were convinced it was gonna have Avengers popping up left and right or maybe be a more hardcore actioner geared at adults or both even and Shane Black instead delivered close to a full on Shane Black movie. Much safer for the fam that Strange 2 but not what audiences expected so there was blowback. Still one of the top 3 or 4 MCU flicks for me though. Love that one.

 

Now, onto Thor Love and Thunder... Even with the familiarity/popularity the character of Doctor Strange gained with Infinity War and No Way Home, he's not now and likely never will have the current popularity of Thor... Thor was already one of the most popular characters and then Ragnarok, Infinity War and Endgame only served to increase his popularity to high as it's even been. Strange is also not now and likely never will have the current popularity of the Guardians either after Vol. 1, Vol. 2, Infinity War and Endgame.

 

And, while based on the teaser I imagine they won't be in Thor 4 a ton, they're still going be in it. This isn't Raimi coming in out of left field to direct after not making a film in 10 years... This is Waititi coming off Ragnarok which is widely accepted as a huge crowd pleaser and extremely popular. Waititi is proven... He'll no doubt release something more personal but still a crowd pleaser. I'm getting Vol. 2 vibes which is a good thing. 

 

If you've seen Strange 2 and were disappointed, there's no reason to think any lesser of Thor or the Guardians. They're really completed unscathed by that movie's existence. A proper trailer for Thor 4 in time for Lightyear and Jurassic World 3 will have everyone hyped. I still very much expect a 170M to 180M OW DOM for Thor 3 and much, much, much better legs than Strange 2 for all the reasons mentioned... Crowd pleaser, more popular characters and a more proven director at least in regards to making a MCU flick that floats with more casual moviegoers. The same or more applies to Gunn's Vol. 3 next May too. Other than those two with proven MCU filmmakers, Feige and Co. will need to find their footing a bit for sure with their other properties.

 

Lastly, Jurassic World 3... That's going to be huge. It's fun to hear so many friends excited to go back to movie theaters buzzing about Maverick, Lightyear, Jurassic World, Thor and Nope. Hopefully it's really strong late May through late July at the box office this summer... So much more fun than last year at this time for us box office geeks.

 

That's it. Sorry for the length.

[YM!]

Wait, so you’re telling me the film with 3:00 pm previews, a multiverse angle that would’ve likely skewed fan driven and mixed-ish WOM is being frontloaded?! I’m so shocked.

[Legion Again]

2 minutes ago, ImNotRacistAtAll said:

As a MCU fan, I thought FAWS was disappointing in terms of story. 

 

BUT (And this is something I feel about every show actually). One thing it made to me is... really like and care about Sam and Bucky. I never liked these characters as much as I do now after the show. Their chemistry is perfect. Zemo also grew on me a LOT. 

 

And I generalize this in almost every show. While they fail in story, they REALLY nail in main characters most of time : Wanda Vision and Agatha, Sam Bucky and Zemo (liked US Agent to), really liked Mobius and Loki, I LOVED Kate Bishop and Hawkeye together and the recent Moon Knight (didn't like the show finale but Steven and Marc and Khonshu are great additions). And I know MCU fans that really agree with this take.

Another interesting ingredient — spending 5 hours with a character can increase your connection/investment with them even if the story is kinda poorly plotted or paced, or the villains are weak. I think this is probably true for me even of the disappointing shows.  The biggest danger is probably not people who never start, or who are disappointed but finish it anyway, but people who were interested enough to watch a few eps but found it blah enough to quit in the middle.

[YM!]

4 minutes ago, SupermanLego said:

Shang chi was Identity politics personified. It was touted as the first Asian superhero movie and was acting like it was the second coming of BP.

Dude, I’ll say this once. Fuck off with this shit.

[CJohn]

Everyone saying the MCU is dead feels like just got possessed by my theaters are dead persona. I mean fucking lmao. If the MCU is dead then it is time to close Hollywood because everything else is a corpse in decomposition.