***SPOILERS*** ***SPOILERS*** ***SPOILERS*** AVATAR: THE WAY OF WATER SPOILERS THREAD ***SPOILERS*** ***SPOILERS*** ***SPOILERS*** ***DID WE MENTION SPOILERS?????***

[LinksterAC]

38 minutes ago, OncomingStorm93 said:

 

What I’m saying is that there are philosophical questions about the difference between remotely piloting an alien clone, and being dead and having your consciousness just plugged into an alien clone. I feel The Way of Water very lightly touched on these themes. Very lightly. I would like to see this plot element we are talking about become central to whatever character journey James Cameron thought was worth bringing Quaritch back for all the sequels. I did feel fleeting moments in Way of Water with “Quaritch” where the seeds were being planted.

 

 

I understand all that, and am intrigued by its potential exploration. 

 

But how does this answer the question of why Tommy didn’t back up his consciousness to be used in his Avatar in the event he’s no longer able to do so himself?

[THUNDER BIRD]

5 minutes ago, LinksterAC said:

I understand all that, and am intrigued by its potential exploration. 

 

But how does this answer the question of why Tommy didn’t back up his consciousness to be used in his Avatar in the event he’s no longer able to do so himself?

They didn't have the technology ready by the time.

 

It took some time between Tommy's death and the Final Battle in Avatar.

[AniNate]

I don't think Tommy had anticipated being mugged and murdered a week before leaving for a science expedition.

 

Heck, even in the movie the implication is they didn't really start the backups until it was clear war was about to break out. Trudy apparently didn't get one.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by AniNate

[Noctis]

7 hours ago, AniNate said:

Idk I found her freaking out charming instead of annoying. She's 8 so not a whole lot she can do in an action movie yet but cry and be scared, but she reminded me of Newt.

 

That seems to be the one aspect of the movie I'm higher on than anyone else.

 

What Newt are you talking about?

[MrPink]

5 minutes ago, Noctis said:

 

What Newt are you talking about?

 

From Aliens

[OncomingStorm93]

3 hours ago, LinksterAC said:

why Tommy didn’t back up his consciousness to be used in his Avatar in the event he’s no longer able to do so himself?

For any number of reasons that are irrelevant to the story that James Cameron wants to tell. I want to see James Cameron's story, despite it's varying quality.

[THUNDER BIRD]

Payakan's revenge to start out all was one of the high points of the movie.

 

Started from it being in absolutely distressed and destroying rocks underwater and then attacking was a nice detail.

 

Then after all chaos ending his part by taking the arm off the hunter was nice cherry on top.

[Valonqar]

Maybe I didn't pay enough attention but where did all those children (Quaritch Jr, Kiri aka Grace Jr) come from? Not a hint in the first that Spider existed and Kiri is what exactly? Sorry very confused here. otherwise had a blast with this. Quaritch is getting a redemption arc in 3-5 no? They can't stretch him as a baddie for 3 more especially after how #2 ended which leaves him at crossroads.

[SnokesLegs]

On 12/18/2022 at 6:47 AM, OncomingStorm93 said:

For any number of reasons that are irrelevant to the story that James Cameron wants to tell. I want to see James Cameron's story, despite it's varying quality.

Exactly. It’d have been clunky as hell if they’d stopped to explain that. It wasn’t necessary to explain it as it wasn’t relevant to the plot, there could be multiple reasons why Tommy didn’t back up his consciousness, none of which affect the story over a decade later.

[LinksterAC]

8 hours ago, SnokesLegs said:

Exactly. It’d have been clunky as hell if they’d stopped to explain that. It wasn’t necessary to explain it as it wasn’t relevant to the plot, there could be multiple reasons why Tommy didn’t back up his consciousness, none of which affect the story over a decade later.

I guess I just don't agree here. The question this begs is *potentially* (not necessarily) world breaking, and so it should have been addressed. And a passing line about how Tommy didn't want to do it, or how technology wasn't ready, could have done the trick.

[Travod]

I think the movie had too much plot. I would have preferred more time just vibing. 

 

Like they mention the magic blood as a contrivance for the bad guys to have a reason to kill the whales but like, there's zero exploration of it outside that scene. Multiple examples of basically one liners explaining away important details [if you're trying to tell a story]. Just give me Baraka on Pandora please.

 

---

 

Separately I feel like there's a lot of discourse on Spider? Like people are making him out to be the worst POS person of all-time, a disgusting traitor etc. Really??? He's a kid abandoned literally by his species on a foreign planet, who grows up with the Na'vi who, even though they are somewhat nice to him, do not consider him true family (I find Jake to be really hypocritical here), at some points Neytiri litrally trying to kill him to show how much she doesn't consider him family. So when someone tries to be his father figure, not a surrogate (ironic I guess because it's a memory surrogate), it seems fairly natural for a young person's emotions to get confusing like that???? Not that I care about this discourse at all lol. 

 

Edit: And also in addition to Neytiri doing some questionable things (see above) in this movie I'm still disappointed she's basically relegated to being a side character for the first 2 hours.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Travod

[IronJimbo]

2 minutes ago, Travod said:

I think the movie had too much plot. I would have preferred more time just vibing. 

 

Like they mention the magic blood as a contrivance for the bad guys to have a reason to kill the whales but like, there's zero exploration of it outside that scene. Multiple examples of basically one liners explaining away important details [if you're trying to tell a story]. Just give me Baraka on Pandora please.

 

---

 

Separately I feel like there's a lot of discourse on Spider? Like people are making him out to be the worst POS person of all-time, a disgusting traitor etc. Really??? He's a kid abandoned literally by his species on a foreign planet, who grows up with the Na'vi who, even though they are somewhat nice to him, do not consider him true family (I find Jake to be really hypocritical here), at some points Neytiri litrally trying to kill him to show how much she doesn't consider him family. So when someone tries to be his father figure, not a surrogate (ironic I guess because it's a memory surrogate), it seems fairly natural for a young person's emotions to get confusing like that???? Not that I care about this discourse at all lol. 

 

I actually agree with all of this!

There was a vibing underwater illumesence scene that was like 5-10 seconds long, i was sad.

 

Two options.
1) 3hours30mins, with more vibing and character dialogue.

2) 2hour50min, remove a subplot and do more vibing and dialogue

 

How many classic "Good guys" would let Quaritch die in that situation when that's there dad and you been chillin with them for a year. I think spider did the right thing

Edited December 20, 2022 by IronJimbo

[Verrows]

1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

 

I actually agree with all of this!

There was a vibing underwater illumesence scene that was like 5-10 seconds long, i was sad.

 

Two options.
1) 3hours30mins, with more vibing and character dialogue.

2) 2hour50min, remove a subplot and do more vibing and dialogue

 

How many classic "Good guys" would let Quaritch die in that situation when that's there dad and you been chillin with them for a year. I think spider did the right thing

Yup, I agree. Saving Quaritch worked for me. It didn't feel shoehorned or out of character or whatever. It felt natural. Quaritch blinking first in the standoff with Neytiri obviously impacted Spider, as it would almost anyone. It bought Quaritch some respect and humanity in Spider's eyes. But it wasn't all Kumbaya either which is why Spider left him after saving him. So it all sort of felt natural and realistic to me.

[WittyUsername]

I don’t get why Kiri needed to be played by Sigourney Weaver, unless the plan is to reveal that she’s somehow Grace’s reincarnation. 
 

Neytiri was definitely shafted in this, but I suppose that was inevitable, since they had to devote time to the kids, although even then, Neteyam also didn’t feel like he got much focus, even though his death is the big emotional moment of the film. 
 

I’m also wondering if they plan on giving Quaritch some Darth Vader style redemption. This movie took small steps to try and give him more depth than just being the evil army guy, and his final scene with Spider is practically begging to be followed up on. 
 

Speaking of Spider, I don’t know how to feel about Neytiri’s treatment of him. I can only hope they address that in the next movie. 

[THUNDER BIRD]

So was Neytiri going to really kill spider, or was that a very very realistic bluff? 

 

And Spider saving Quaritch is basically him saying you saved my life, i saved your, we're even now.

 

 

[filmlover]

One has to imagine that Neytiri coming perilously close to killing Spider is going to serve as the starting point for family drama of the next movie. 

 

I'm torn between whether I want to see Quartich redeemed or to be eaten by one of the Pandora whales for lunch in the next one. Such is the power of Stephen Lang's work as this monster of a character.

Edited December 21, 2022 by filmlover

[elcaballero]

Not sure if I missed something, but is there a reason that Spider was side-eying Neytiri before she took him as a hostage? I guess she did have berserker rage mode on, but it almost felt like something got edited out to me.

 

Overall, I'm so down to see more of this world now, which I actually wasn't after the first one.

[Noctis]

5 hours ago, WittyUsername said:

I don’t get why Kiri needed to be played by Sigourney Weaver, unless the plan is to reveal that she’s somehow Grace’s reincarnation. 
 

Neytiri was definitely shafted in this, but I suppose that was inevitable, since they had to devote time to the kids, although even then, Neteyam also didn’t feel like he got much focus, even though his death is the big emotional moment of the film. 
 

I’m also wondering if they plan on giving Quaritch some Darth Vader style redemption. This movie took small steps to try and give him more depth than just being the evil army guy, and his final scene with Spider is practically begging to be followed up on. 
 

Speaking of Spider, I don’t know how to feel about Neytiri’s treatment of him. I can only hope they address that in the next movie. 

 

Neytiri should have been in more, but whenever she's there, the film soars. She's the MVP of the film. Neteyam's death only worked because of Neytiri's reaction - not that his character created much connection to the audience. 

 

I loved Neytiri's slightly villainous turn, if only for a brief moment. She was enraged and devastated by her son's loss, so the fear of now losing her only biological daughter was pushing her maternal instincts to the extreme. It was said in the beginning that Neytiri never warmed up to Spider because she felt like he did not belong. Makes sense since the vast majority of humans tried destroying her world. 

[THUNDER BIRD]

The question now is.

 

Will Quaritch turn to good side or will Spider turn to bad side.

 

And i suppose in future installments, there will be good humans and some bad Na'vi too.

 

Exciting prospects, no matter what you think about the movie, it definitely ended with branches for future unlike Avatar which was pretty much a standalone movie.

[Tigalion2]

On 12/16/2022 at 11:49 PM, Ozymandias said:

Did anyone else laugh at the fountain of youth whale goo being worth only 80 million dollars? 

 

Did they state the currency though? Real question as I don't remember. Since we are in 2100 something maybe they are using a more potent currency.

Also maybe it's not that much valuable because of the competing memory disc in a clone technology. What I didn't get at all is why there is no mention of obtenium in this movie (or did I miss something). It was a big deal for the humans in the first movie but we don't know what they did with it and what was the impact on earth of the loss of main source (I guess). Instead we get a novel plot about terraforming Pandora and on top of that a new valuable ressource for humans. 

 

As for the film, just like the first one, I enjoyed the spectacle but less so the script. There are so many repeated scenes. For instance I've lost count of how many times the kids got taken and had to be rescued. For some kind of Alien military brats they sure dont know how to follow orders. 

Kiri is a clone guys! Quote me on that when it's revealed in the next installment. I kinda like her turning into aquagirl and saving the day. But where the hell were the water people in the final act? Did they ditched the Sulus because none of their kids were still on the boat? 

Spider saving Quaritch didn't surprise me. Nyetiri trying to kill Spider did though. I would've liked Spider offering himself to her to call his 'father's' bluff. 

Otherwise him joining the family hug seems off. No way I'm hugging people who just threatened my life.