M3GAN W33K3ND THR3AD | ACTUALS - DADDY CAM3RON'S MAGNUM OPUS 45.8M | DOCUM3NTARY ABOUT KILL3R DOLL 30.4M | ORANG3 PANTH3R 13.5M

[Firepower]

56 minutes ago, Brainbug said:

 

I think right here is where people just have different personal feelings what they find more spectacular/awe-inspiring. Because yes i agree Avatar 2's action setpieces are much bigger, much heavier and louder than Top Guns, but i was FAR less impressed by them because i know its all just CGI. Amazing, breathtaking CGI, but CGI.

 

With Top Gun, you know (and see) that its real. Thats far more impressive to me personally.

 

Disclaimer, just to be sure: This is not intended to downplay Avatar 2's action. Just my explanation why i found Top Guns action scenes to be even more impressive and engaging.

Good point, great practical stuff is always more impressive than the best CGI in the world.

[MovieMan89]

9 minutes ago, Firepower said:

I strongly disagree, I thought TGM story and characters are far superior to last MI films and I believe it's the reason why TGM did much better both box office and reception wise. Ethan Hunt is just Tom Cruise, he has no personality or good backstory behind him at all, it's a non-existent character carried entirely by Tom's charisma. The same with every single other MI character, Ving Rhames is just Ving Rhames who's just Tom's friend. Simon Pegg is just Simon Pegg who's just Tom's friend. MI5 actually fooled me into thinking that Rebecca Fergusson is not a good actress because her character was so generic and boring with zero personality, until I was blown away by her perfomance in Doctor Sleep and changed my opinion about her completely. Tom actually has a character to play in Maverick, with a backstory, personality (also infused with Cruise's personality of course), internal conflict and real character arc. And supporting cast while not anything deep at least have some unique traits to differentiate them and simple character arcs. I'm not even talking about emotional stuff in TGM, especially by the end, that elevated Maverick to higher level than it would've been with just action and gave it its legs/awards attention, something not a single MI has. And by the way I really like MI movies, especially the last one, but story and characters are just an excuse to do crazy action and stunts there.

I never thought I’d see someone argue that Maverick isn’t the most “Tom Cruise” character of all time, but to each their own. As someone with zero Top Gun nostalgia, I failed to objectively understand why I should be emotionally invested for a reason besides nostalgia with the movie. 
 

I’ll give you that maybe MIs characters aren’t drastically better than TGMs, but the plots sure are imo. It’s not a coincidence that those movies are just as critically lauded as TGM but can’t break a certain popularity ceiling. Most people don’t want to have to think that hard with their blockbusters, they’d rather just shut off their brain with a TGM. Sometimes I will argue in favor of that kind of movie too being the “best”, but TGM is just too reliant on nostalgia over quality for me. 

[Ronin46]

I guess people cant celebrate a movie without tearing another down as its "competition" on a list.

 

I would say this however. Most people felt Avatar 2 would make a lot of money. Maybe it has made more or maybe less than expectations. The quality of the movie is about what people expect. How many people thought TGM was going to be of the quality and the technical feat and for the box office run it made?

[Mr Roark]

2 minutes ago, Flamengo81 said:

Don't see how this is relevant to being the best picture at all.

 

 

Not my problem if you don’t see the obvious.

[Firepower]

1 hour ago, JustLurking said:

but I don't think it even has the best blockbuster third act of the year.

I really hope you mean A2 and not something like Thor 4

[IronJimbo]

Top Gun Maverick to me was a great movie, I would have been super happy if they just cut all the love interest scenes and the scene with iceman. They were difficult to get through. More plane scenes, more scenes with the pilots. Ty ty

[Mr Roark]

1 minute ago, Ronin46 said:

I guess people cant celebrate a movie without tearing another down as its "competition" on a list.

 

I would say this however. Most people felt Avatar 2 would make a lot of money. Maybe it has made more or maybe less than expectations. The quality of the movie is about what people expect. How many people thought TGM was going to be of the quality and the technical feat and for the box office run it made?

So?

[Flamengo81]

I liked Avatar 2 more than Top Gun Maverick, even though I loved Maverick too and it's one of my favorite movies of the year. But regarding only the 3rd act, I personally think TGM is better. I really liked all of A2 3rd act, with all the impressive action shots, the 3D sequences (especially the sinking of the ship), the emotion to see two parents dealing with the loss of a son and all that, although the sudden disappearance of the water clan bugged me. But TGM's is one of the most exhilarating 3rd acts that I have ever watched, the stakes were super high, the aerial action scenes were just superb and I hold my breath during the whole final mission and after that the catharsis of Maverick and Rooster finally understanding each other is just beautiful.

[Ronin46]

Just now, Mr Roark said:

So?

 

A solid contribution.

[JustLurking]

2 minutes ago, Firepower said:

I really hope you mean A2 and not something like Thor 4

I do mean A2 yes (I also mean EEAAO if that counts).

[Flamengo81]

3 minutes ago, Mr Roark said:

Not my problem if you don’t see the obvious.

So in order to be the best movie, it has to have the themes you personally deem as relevant, with the messages you personally deem as relevant and somehow not agreing with that is not seen the obvious? Alright then...

 

[TwoMisfits]

7 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Top Gun Maverick to me was a great movie, I would have been super happy if they just cut all the love interest scenes and the scene with iceman. They were difficult to get through. More plane scenes, more scenes with the pilots. Ty ty

 

 

See - different strokes, different folks.

 

I think the scene with Iceman and the brilliance with which they pulled it off without relying on anything but the actors and their emotions IS why this film is academy award worthy.  It's one of the best scenes in the movie for me.

 

Edit to Add: And even above the emotion, stepping out of the movie, it shows the respect for the industry and its former stars.  Anyone could have CGI'd Iceman in (heck, Kilmer might have even said yes), or just skipped him b/c it would be too hard to too expensive to make his role work,  But he was integral to Tom's journey, and not only was he put in the movie, but he was put in a spotlight role.  

 

Have I said how much I loved and respected this choice?

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by TwoMisfits

[Brainbug]

3 minutes ago, Ronin46 said:

I guess people cant celebrate a movie without tearing another down as its "competition" on a list.

 

I would say this however. Most people felt Avatar 2 would make a lot of money. Maybe it has made more or maybe less than expectations. The quality of the movie is about what people expect. How many people thought TGM was going to be of the quality and the technical feat and for the box office run it made?

 

Top Gun for me was a rollercoster in terms of expectations. I think i had it at like 150-200M DOM total in the beginning of 2022 and then changed it to 300M+ in the month before release but in general, it was one of those rare "perfect storm" runs, where you could just feel that it was going to be a breakout. Though i dont think anyone would have firmly believed - even after it had that crazy 2nd weekend hold! - that it would cross 700M DOM.

[MovieMan89]

TFA is probably the shining beacon to me for a nostalgia driven blockbuster that  didn’t just  rely on that to be effective. The new characters were fantastic in that movie in their own right and the arcs set up were extremely compelling in their future possibilities, in spite of the nostalgic structure the film itself followed. Obviously just looking at it through a standalone lens, not the disastrous implosion of all of its potential that the sequels wrought. 

[JustLurking]

3 minutes ago, Brainbug said:

 

Top Gun for me was a rollercoster in terms of expectations. I think i had it at like 150-200M DOM total in the beginning of 2022 and then changed it to 300M+ in the month before release but in general, it was one of those rare "perfect storm" runs, where you could just feel that it was going to be a breakout. Though i dont think anyone would have firmly believed - even after it had that crazy 2nd weekend hold! - that it would cross 700M DOM.

I didn't expect TGM to breakout at all, though that made the run a lot more fun tbh. Obviously excluding once presales started making it obvious that it had BIG interest.

Edited January 7, 2023 by JustLurking

[IronJimbo]

1 minute ago, Flamengo81 said:

I liked Avatar 2 more than Top Gun Maverick, even though I loved Maverick too and it's one of my favorite movies of the year. But regarding only the 3rd act, I personally think TGM is better. I really liked all of A2 3rd act, with all the impressive action shots, the 3D sequences (especially the sinking of the ship), the emotion to see two parents dealing with the loss of a son and all that, although the sudden disappearance of the water clan bugged me. But TGM's is one of the most exhilarating 3rd acts that I have ever watched, the stakes were super high, the aerial action scenes were just superb and I hold my breath during the whole final mission and after that the catharsis of Maverick and Rooster finally understanding each other is just beautiful.

it was cut from the film to save time!

 

Agree to disagre on the 3rd acts

[Firepower]

13 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

I never thought I’d see someone argue that Maverick isn’t the most “Tom Cruise” character of all time, but to each their own. 

I mean he is Tom Cruise, but unlike Ethan Hunt he is also a character, that's my point

 

13 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

I never thought I’d see someone argue that Maverick isn’t the most “Tom Cruise” character of all time, but to each their own. As someone with zero Top Gun nostalgia, I failed to objectively understand why I should be emotionally invested for a reason besides nostalgia with the movie. 

I'm not really nostalgic about Top Gun itself, I like it, but it's not among my favourite movies or anything, but I'm nostalgic about 80s and old-fashioned filmmaking, so maybe it's one of the reasons why I was invested.

 

13 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

I’ll give you that maybe MIs characters aren’t drastically better than TGMs, but the plots sure are imo.

Idk, all MI plots are exactly the same, chasing after some bad guy who threatens the world as an excuse for Tom doing crazy stunts. I thought TGM was actually a good story about complicated relationship between father and son against dangerous mission, dealing with guilt and also about passage of time which I find much more compelling than actors chasing bad guys all over the world again and again.

 

13 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

but TGM is just too reliant on nostalgia over quality for me. 

Well, that would be a much better description for NWH since at least TGM is actually well made in terms of craft and very logical follow up to the original, but yeah, to each their own.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Firepower

[BestPicturePlutoNash]

Man Called Otto doing over 3.5m in 600 theaters is impressive, no?

 

I thought it was going to be a Hanks flop, but this indicates real draw power. Mediocre reviews, no awards heat, the marketplace has been unkind to this type of film but it outperformed Fabelman's wide expansion in roughly same amount of theaters

[Mr Roark]

5 minutes ago, Flamengo81 said:

So in order to be the best movie, it has to have the themes you personally deem as relevant, with the messages you personally deem as relevant and somehow not agreing with that is not seen the obvious? Alright then...

 

There are no relevant themes nor messages in Mav.

 

Only good old fashioned American rhetoric.

 

I said it again: I liked it for what it was.

[Firepower]

36 minutes ago, Ronin46 said:

 

The Kings Speech, Green Book, Crash, Coda, The Artist. 

I thought Nomadland was the worst Best Picture winner in decades in one of the worst years for movies ever, every single one you listed is better to me, at least they are motion pictures.