The Marvel / MCU Thread || From Blade to Secret Wars, All Things Marvel!

[TwoMisfits]

3 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

You can't say "everything is oversaturated" and also ask why they aren't speeding up production 

 

Yes, you can.  The production that needs speeding up is the one that retires and/or kills half the main cast of characters, so you can focus on a few characters per phase.

 

Even comics readers don't read every line of heroes, and a lot of those hero lines bomb and get their issues canceled.  At this point, the popular Phase 4/5 characters should be known and it's time for the serious pruning before the next phase.

 

Give the audience focus points.  Make the next 2 years revolve solely around those focus points.  Stop expanding and start some serious contracting.

[SpiderByte]

No, they aren't just going to kill off all the new characters and bring all the old ones back.

[TwoMisfits]

1 minute ago, SpiderByte said:

No, they aren't just going to kill off all the new characters and bring all the old ones back.

 

I didn't say that.  That would be stupid.  But of the new characters - new Widow, new little Ant, new Thor, new Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Shang-Chi, 2 new Marvels, new Hulk, new Iron, new Black Panther, etc, etc - you can prune 1/2...and then prune 1/2 of the olds (Ant Man should have already been gone)...get rid of whomever is not popular or whoever's powers wreck plots or are too expensive...just get rid of 1/2 the mains - it's SO needed...

 

And give fans a team they can identify...

[YM!]

3 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

You can't say "everything is oversaturated" and also ask why they aren't speeding up production 

I’m not asking them to speed up production now. It’s best to just truck along and can anything not in development or if production can’t be retooled and then depending on how KD/SW goes whether it’s best to soft or hard reboot.

 

However, in the first place, they should’ve chosen 6 characters they want to be the main faces of the saga which they likely did but focus mainly on those six faces. Not every superhero character can get a project, it’s just infeasible. My point was more so if Sam, Carol and Shang-Chi were some of the main faces, they should’ve  been top priorities. If you are going to do 23 projects within 2.5 years, you better make sure they get major appearances in the meantime. Together, the trio combine for about 3 major appearances in that timeframe.

[YM!]

5 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

I didn't say that.  That would be stupid.  But of the new characters - new Widow, new little Ant, new Thor, new Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Shang-Chi, 2 new Marvels, new Hulk, new Iron, new Black Panther, etc, etc - you can prune 1/2...and then prune 1/2 of the olds (Ant Man should have already been gone)...get rid of whomever is not popular or whoever's powers wreck plots or are too expensive...just get rid of 1/2 the mains - it's SO needed...

 

And give fans a team they can identify...

In fairness half won’t be Avengers, some of them are Young Avengers or Thunderbolts. However, I think all the young heroes should’ve been introduced in a Young Avengers movie or show in Phase 4, rather than bleed most of them into the larger MCU. Ironheart works with the themes of BP, as does the twins in WV and if Kamala was the face have the show become a 100m-ish movie. The rest I think would’ve worked just as fine introduced or reintroduced in a movie first without anything being lost. It’s like Teen Titans. Think you just need to introduce Robin and then go from there.

Edited November 7, 2023 by YM!

[Valencia]

16 minutes ago, YM! said:

In fairness half won’t be Avengers, some of them are Young Avengers or Thunderbolts. However, I think all the young heroes should’ve been introduced in a Young Avengers movie or show in Phase 4, rather than bleed most of them into the larger MCU. Ironheart works with the themes of BP, as does the twins in WV and if Kamala was the face have the show become a 100m-ish movie. The rest I think would’ve worked just as fine introduced or reintroduced in a movie first without anything being lost. It’s like Teen Titans. Think you just need to introduce Robin and then go from there.

A Team up movie featuring a bunch of nameless heroes would have flopped.

 

A show featuring a team up of a bunch of nameless heroes would have run into the same problem they’re having now. People don’t want to spend 7 hours watching 7 episodes of their 5/10 show to understand the movies.

 

There’s no way the budget would be anything less than $200M for this hypothetical project.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Valencia

[SpiderByte]

There does seem to be a lot of solid news about an adaptation of Children's Crusade featuring Wiccan, but it's not clear if it's a Wiccan thing specifically or it's including all the Young Avengers like the original was. Theyve absolutely been setting up some kind of teen hero team up thing and Children's Crusade does make sense for that

[ZeroHour]

2 hours ago, Arlborn said:

Guessing the next Avengers is a fun game!

 

I'll try to take a stab at it and say that, if there is an Avengers movie before Secret Wars, the likely Avengers will be:

 

 

Star Lord - leader (yes,my guess)

Spider-Man

Doctor Strange - likely future leader

Captain Marvel

Cap Falcon

Thor (original)

Hulk (original)

Ant-Man* (original)

Black Panther (Shuri**)

 

 

* dies early, as was likely the original plan for Quantumania

** dies at the end, then his kid becomes Black Panther later on

I'd guess:

 

Star Lord 

Spiderman (I think he and Star Lord will be the leads even if not the team leaders. Go with your most popular characters at this point)

Cap Falcon

Captain Marvel

Shang-Chi

Yelena (my Thunderbolts prediction is that only she and Bucky survive that movie)

Dr. Strange (I'm iffy on this one. I think he'll be a big part of the movie but maybe not part of the team)

Hulk (I could see them not doing this though to hold off on reuniting the OGs in Secret Wars)

 

I think there will also be a large role for one of the pre-existing teams. Probably the Fantastic Four but maybe the Guardians instead. I think Shuri appears but she's not on the team.

[SpiderByte]

It kind of depends if the Avengers are an actual team that exists (like in one and 2 and the Heist team in Endgame) or if it's like Infinity War where it's basically just a catch all term for the whole cast.

 

Shang-Chi, Captain America (Sam), Doctor Strange, Hulk, and Thor all seem like for sure locks though. Yelena too.

Edited November 7, 2023 by SpiderByte

[ZeroHour]

I hope there's an actual team. And even within the framework of something like Infinity War, I think a team of people actively calling themselves the Avengers is a good idea. 

[SpiderByte]

While the common expectation is that Secret Wars is the one more focused on variants (like Tobey, etc) I do think there'll be at least one multiverse character here. Even if it's just the TVA Loki or the like 

[Jonwo]

I think Marvel Studios will fast track X-Men for 2026, The idea that if The Marvels bombed we won't have no more Marvel films ever again is frankly dumb. 

[SpiderByte]

29 minutes ago, Jonwo said:

I think Marvel Studios will fast track X-Men for 2026, The idea that if The Marvels bombed we won't have no more Marvel films ever again is frankly dumb. 

Idk about fast track, if they're looking at writers now 2026/27 is about the normal production length from there. It'll depend on when they get a director to tell for sure

[keysersoze123]

I think Disney will annouce RDJ/CE and may be even SJ coming back for next 2 Avenger movies. This is happen once the strikes are done(hopefully soon :-( ).

[SpiderByte]

5 minutes ago, keysersoze123 said:

I think Disney will annouce RDJ/CE and may be even SJ coming back for next 2 Avenger movies. This is happen once the strikes are done(hopefully soon :-( ).

Scarjo did say she's producing...some kind of project with them, which as of June of this year was still in the works. Absolutely no word as to what it could be.

[AMC Theaters Enjoyer]

I’m sure Evans and Scar Jo will be back but I’m not too sure if Downey will. I don’t say that as a knock against Marvel but more that he seems to be taking on different projects than the type of blockbusters he was doing a lot of during his time as Iron Man. He said in an interview a couple months back that the failure of Dolittle made him rethink the type of projects he’s taking on. Him doing Oppenheimer, The Sympathizer at HBO with Park Chan-wook and a new project with Shane Black seems to reflect that he wants to do some smaller scale stuff. Not saying that he’s completely going against doing franchise work (he’s still trying to make Sherlock Holmes 3 and there’s that Vertigo remake), but it might take more convincing for him to come back.

[keysersoze123]

22 minutes ago, AMC Theaters Enjoyer said:

I’m sure Evans and Scar Jo will be back but I’m not too sure if Downey will. I don’t say that as a knock against Marvel but more that he seems to be taking on different projects than the type of blockbusters he was doing a lot of during his time as Iron Man. He said in an interview a couple months back that the failure of Dolittle made him rethink the type of projects he’s taking on. Him doing Oppenheimer, The Sympathizer at HBO with Park Chan-wook and a new project with Shane Black seems to reflect that he wants to do some smaller scale stuff. Not saying that he’s completely going against doing franchise work (he’s still trying to make Sherlock Holmes 3 and there’s that Vertigo remake), but it might take more convincing for him to come back.

[ZeroHour]

If RDJ comes back, I'm guessing it will be closer to his Spiderman: Homecoming deal where he got $10 million for two weeks of work. I'm skeptical he commits to a full movie.

[vafrow]

2 hours ago, keysersoze123 said:

I think Disney will annouce RDJ/CE and may be even SJ coming back for next 2 Avenger movies. This is happen once the strikes are done(hopefully soon :-( ).

 

I'm skeptical.

 

Throwing big money to revisit the glory days of a franchise when the ship may already have sailed is what got them in trouble with Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny.

 

I don't think we really know if the fatigue we're seeing is indifference to the current MCU landscape, or if people have moved on in general.

 

If it's the latter, going big to bring back the original Avengers is just digging a bigger hole.

 

I personally lean towards it being more about people moving on. I look at my kids and their friends, all in the 9-11 age range. Superheroes are just not part of their dialogue right now. I feel like this generation is going to be pretty disconnected from it, seeing it as something that old people like. There was a bit of interest around ATSV, but limited.

[keysersoze123]

7 minutes ago, vafrow said:

 

I'm skeptical.

 

Throwing big money to revisit the glory days of a franchise when the ship may already have sailed is what got them in trouble with Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny.

 

I don't think we really know if the fatigue we're seeing is indifference to the current MCU landscape, or if people have moved on in general.

 

If it's the latter, going big to bring back the original Avengers is just digging a bigger hole.

 

I personally lean towards it being more about people moving on. I look at my kids and their friends, all in the 9-11 age range. Superheroes are just not part of their dialogue right now. I feel like this generation is going to be pretty disconnected from it, seeing it as something that old people like. There was a bit of interest around ATSV, but limited.

I would not compare getting RDJ/CE back to making another Indy movie with 80+ year old ford, 15 years after poorly received previous movie. RDJ/CE did exit on a high and they are insanely popular with the SH fans. I would rather compare them coming back even for just 1 or 2 movies would have the same level of excitement that we saw with Tobey coming back for No Way Home. 

 

But this does not help with long term. May be X Men or Fantastic Four help build characters who can achieve similar level of popularity. Or the ship has sailed for SH movies and Disney have to slow down dramatically on the content side and take time to build new excitement.