The Marvel / MCU Thread || From Blade to Secret Wars, All Things Marvel!

[SpiderByte]

2 minutes ago, John Marston said:

some actual excitement over Marvel projects. This is what happens when you make things that people actually want 

You don't find out "what people actually want" without trying new things 

[Valonqar]

12 minutes ago, John Marston said:

some actual excitement over Marvel projects. This is what happens when you make things that people actually want 

 

Yep. Cut the fat - all those Fetch characters that Marvel thought would happen but didn't. Hey, you tried, big points for that but if audience rejects them than call it a day. Focus on characters fans like already be it in the movies (Deadpool, Wolverine) or in CB (Fantastic 4). 

 

Also stop doing trial balloons by feeding scoopers that this or that unnecessary show or movie will get a sequel (Eternals, She Hulk, Ms Marvel). It's over. Drop them and move on with what actually works.

 

Admit you don't really want to make Blade or at least with grandpa Ali who was wrong choice from the get go. This is now turning into Rian Johnson's Star Wars Trilogy. Nobody calls it officially dead but it's dead. 

Edited February 17 by Valonqar

[John Marston]

7 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

Yep. Cut the fat - all those Fetch characters that Marvel thought would happen but didn't. Hey, you tried, big points for that but if audience rejects them than call it a day. Focus on characters fans like already be it in the movies (Deadpool, Wolverine) or in CB (Fantastic 4). 

 

Alsos top doing trial balloons by feeding scoopers that this or that unnecessary show or movie will get a sequel (Eternals, She Hulk, Ms Marvel). It's over. Drop them and move on to what actually works.

 

Admit you don't really want to make Blade or at least with grandpa Ali who was wrong choice from the get go. This is now turning into Rian Johnson's Star Wars Trilogy. Nobody calls it officially dead but it's dead. 

 

a Blade movie should happen and the way to make it is simple (John Wick with vampires) but Marvel

Is being stupid and clueless and trying to do stupid shit with it apparently 

Edited February 17 by John Marston

[Valonqar]

4 minutes ago, John Marston said:

 

a Blade movie should happen and the way to make it is simple (John Wick with vampires) but Marvem is being stupid and clueless and trying to do stupid shit with it apparently 

 

Because they don't want Blade movie. No one in their right mind makes a Blade movie by putting a focus on his daughter. How that crap was even brought up let alone approved to be a script is trully baffling. It's a terrible idea that somehow became a script (now mercifully scrapped) cause they didn't see it as a terrible idea. I don't get it. Also, Ali is wrong end of. Big part of what made Blade so iconic is Snipes' RL martial arts prowess. That they didn't look into actor-martial artist is beyond stupid.

Edited February 17 by Valonqar

[SpiderByte]

1 hour ago, Valonqar said:

Focus on characters fans like already be it in the movies (Deadpool,

People have every fucking short memories because Deadpool was not an A lister with audiences till after the movie came out. Neither was The Avengers. Neither were the Guardians. Neither was fucking Iron Man. Yes, it is a good thing that Marvels willing to roll the dice on things.

 

This is why this boards obsession with "only do what already worked" for Marvel is idiotic. No, just recasting Tony Stark and doing Iron Man 4 isn't what Marvel needs.

Edited February 17 by SpiderByte

[PlatnumRoyce]

3 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

and making it more "make oriented" audience

male-oriented?

[Valonqar]

2 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

People have every fucking short memories because Deadpool was not an A lister with audiences till after the movie came out. Neither was The Avengers. Neither were the Guardians. Neither was fucking Iron Man. Yes, it is a good thing that Marvels willing to roll the dice on things.

 

 

 

Yes they became A list after their movies came out but there's no doubt that many characters that MCU introduced in new phases didn't become even B listers and some completely tanked more than once including that 250M megaton bomb. So they rolled the dice which is good and now cut the fat that didn't work out. I see nothing controversial there.

Edited February 17 by Valonqar

[SpiderByte]

1 hour ago, Valonqar said:

Yes they became A list after their movies came out but there's no doubt that many characters that MCU introduced in new phases didn't become even B listers and some completely tanked more than once including that 250M megaton bomb

If we're using the logic of "only make sequels to hits" making a sequel to Captain Marvel is absolutely the logical decision.

[fabiopazzo2]

4 hours ago, John Marston said:

some actual excitement over Marvel projects. This is what happens when you make things that people actually want 

Fantastic 4

deadpoolxWolverine

spiderman 4

Blade

daredevill

Thor 5(Without Taika)

Shang chi 2

Doc Strange 3

 

and of course Avengers

 

this project should be their main target. Of course is only my opinion 🤗

[fabiopazzo2]

4 hours ago, Valonqar said:

 

Because they don't want Blade movie. No one in their right mind makes a Blade movie by putting a focus on his daughter. How that crap was even brought up let alone approved to be a script is trully baffling. 

My god... this was absolutel madness like the first episode of Daredevil... 

[Valonqar]

3 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

If we're using the logic of "only make sequels to hits" making a sequel to Captain Marvel is absolutely the logical decision.

 

Sequel to CM? Yes. Sequel to Ms Marvel, which what The Marvels was since it picked up where the show no one watched left off? 

Edited February 17 by Valonqar

[SpiderByte]

28 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

Sequel to CM? Yes. Sequel to Ms Marvel, which what The Marvels was since it picked up where the show no one watched left off? 

You've said this a lot: it really isn't. I know you hate all the female Marvel heroes, especially the ones that arent white, but your personal opinions are not facts.

[John Marston]

19 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

You've said this a lot: it really isn't. I know you hate all the female Marvel heroes, especially the ones that arent white, but your personal opinions are not facts.

 

 

 

The Marvels likely having a 200 million loss for Disney is not an opinion

[Valonqar]

5 minutes ago, John Marston said:

 

 

 

The Marvels likely having a 200 million loss for Disney is not an opinion

 

exactly. It's a fact and it cannot be stressed enough. Your audience said NO are you going to shovel the same thing down their throat that they'll keep rejecting or cut it loose and focus on what they embrace to regain their trust? It's no rocket science. 

[SpiderByte]

13 minutes ago, John Marston said:

 

 

 

The Marvels likely having a 200 million loss for Disney is not an opinion

So therefore just making a sequel to a big hit is not a guarantee, just like making a project about a character who isn't already a list isn't a guaranteed failure. Thank you for proving my point.

[SpiderByte]

7 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

exactly. It's a fact and it cannot be stressed enough. Your audience said NO are you going to shovel the same thing down their throat that they'll keep rejecting or cut it loose and focus on what they embrace to regain their trust? It's no rocket science. 

"you can't shove the same thing down our throats which is why you should never do anything new or risky" is your argument? Really? You don't realize those two things are total opposites?

[WittyUsername]

All I know is it’s gonna be ridiculous if the Blade movie gets delayed again at this point. 

 

Anyway, out of all the Marvel movies currently on the schedule, Fantastic Four is the one I’m most curious about. 

[Valonqar]

20 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

So therefore just making a sequel to a big hit is not a guarantee, just like making a project about a character who isn't already a list isn't a guaranteed failure. Thank you for proving my point.

 

He didn't prove your point quite the contrary. You may pretend all you like that The Marvels was a regular sequel to CM but reality is that it wasn't because they tied it in with TV shows especially the flop one so it became something else. Taking the title away from CM didn't help the matter either. It wasn't a risk as much as it was a massive miscalculation. Point being, you got a movie that you perosnaly wanted, it didn't work for others who aren't you - in fact it became the studio's stain and embarrassment - so pushing forward with more of that is a business suicide. The audience(who isn't you)  have spoken. You may not like that they rejected that movie and those characters (all or specific one) and embraced different movies and characters (Barbenheimer, Mario, Spiderverse, GOTG 3, Wonka, ABY, etc) but that's what it is.

 

19 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

"you can't shove the same thing down our throats which is why you should never do anything new or risky" is your argument? Really? You don't realize those two things are total opposites?

 

Again, there's nothing new or risky about this superbomb. It was 100% a miscalulation based on expectations that weren't met. They thought the 2 Marvels who weren't CM would become household names by the time movie came out and that absolutely didn't happen. Talk about counting their chickens before they hatched. On top of that the movie was shit. 

 

And shoveling rejected characters and/or concepts down audience throats again and again =/= risky. It's dumb. 

Edited February 18 by Valonqar

[PlatnumRoyce]

re: Marvels, isn't this where production timelines come in (you don't actually know what's a hit or flop prior to moving forward with the next project)?

 

I don't really get why people are ignoring Secret Invasion in this discourse when "Nick Fury investigates the Skrull on earth" plot clearly was initially intended as the immediate sequel to The Marvels and got weirdly reworked into being a prequel (why is Nick Fury "back on earth for the first time since Endgame"...well, the space station explodes at the very end of "Marvels" and we see Fury re-established on earth). All three works flopped suggesting both quality concerns and a real weakness in interest in 2019's Captain Marvel. This really is obviously a complete vindication of a criticism of the original movie/original movie's characters despite the film's insane box office run. There just was no residual goodwill and no residual interest in the film. 

 

I wouldn't have predicted this based on Captain Marvels' Box office (and even post-box office) run but it just seems undeniable. What looked like one of the most sure things imaginable (Nick Fury getting a solo tv show is as easy a sell as a black widow movie) turned out to be a risky mirage. All 3 Captain Marvel sequels/spinoffs are, on paper, significantly less risky than a big budget show about Scarlett Witch and Vision post-Endgame. 

 

Still, the film's supporting cast is messy and hurts the film in a way that's obvious but also understandable to overlook. You really needed to chose either Ms. Marvel or "child sidekick from first movie" (either reoccurring as a kid-sidekick or being shown all grown up). Either really could work but trying to splitting the baby is, as king Solomon noted, a bad thing. The film is much more interested in setting up Ms. Marvel than having the payoff of Rambeau(?) whose powers messily have nothing to do with either Captain Marvel or the antagonist. 

Edited February 18 by PlatnumRoyce

[SpiderByte]

Yeah no, the Deadpool 3 trailer heavily includes elements from the TV shows and nobody's suddenly claiming it's homework.

 

26 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

He didn't prove your point quite the contrary. You may pretend all you like that The Marvels was a regular sequel to CM but reality is that it wasn't because they tied it in with TV shows especially the flop one so it became something else. Taking the title away from CM didn't help the matter either. It wasn't a risk as much as it was a massive miscalculation. Point being, you got a movie that you perosnaly wanted, it didn't work for others who aren't you - in fact it became the studio's stain and embarrassment - so pushing forward with more of that is a business suicide. The audience(who isn't you)  have spoken. You may not like that they rejected that movie and those characters (all or specific one) and embraced different movies and characters (Barbenheimer, Mario, Spiderverse, GOTG 3, Wonka, ABY, etc) but that's what it is.

 

 

Again, there's nothing new or risky about this superbomb. It was 100% a miscalulation based on expectations that weren't met. They thought the 2 Marvels who weren't CM would become household names by the time movie came out and that absolutely didn't happen. Talk about counting their chickens before they hatched. On top of that the movie was shit. 

 

And shoveling rejected characters and/or concepts down audience throats again and again =/= risky. It's dumb. 

WandaVision was a massive critical awards success and Ms Marvel has a higher RT score than all of Marvels releases. This idea that those shows were universally despised really only exists on this board. So yes, Marvel clearly does intend on trying new things and not just endless sequels.