Legend of Korra

[Spidey Freak]

Looking now I like the ending.

 

 

I thought at first the love between them existed and now it magically being revealed to us.

 

However it seems to me the ending was the start of the romantic part of the relationship. 

 

Yeah. And apparently, the only reason they couldn't have an overt buildup to it in Books 3 and 4 was because the network wouldn't allow it. 

[Lordmandeep]

I think people were surprised because even if there were signs, one would think "its a show aimed at a younger audience, they don't have that in there" 

 

However they broke some ground here. 

[Spidey Freak]

I think people were surprised because even if there were signs, one would think "its a show aimed at a younger audience, they don't have that in there"

However they broke some ground here.

"Some" is understating it. How many sci-fi/fantasy show and movie protagonists are canonically LGBTQ not just in animation but also live action? Torchwood is the only one that comes to mind.

[Lordmandeep]

Thing is and how our society is that I still think many would not accept if Aang got with a guy in the end of the Last Air bender. 

 

People are way more accepting of lesbianism. 

[Spidey Freak]

Thing is and how our society is that I still think many would not accept if Aang got with a guy in the end of the Last Air bender.

People are way more accepting of lesbianism.

I'm not so sure. Lesbians are given some unique sexist crap, including from some gay men as well. I'm sure there will be some basement dwellers going "Korrasami need some good D to end this nonsense". Also, there is a young teen couple of gay superheroes in Marvel's Young Avengers team named Wiccan and Hulking where Wiccan has many similarities to an Aang or Frodo. So that's not completely an unprecedented situation as well.

BTW, just rewatching "Breath of Fresh Air", Book 3: Changes premiere. It's RIFE with subversive nods towards Korra and Asami's changing sexuality, what with the newly powered Airbenders having to accept their changing physiology and the impact it will have on their lives. It's like X-Men in Avatar-verse!

[BadAtGender]

Well, that's a pretty fantastic way to wrap up a series. I admit that S1 was really rocky, and I wasn't entirely sure about S2, but 3 and 4 are pretty sublime, and elevate Korra as a whole above ATLA.

[Spidey Freak]

Well, that's a pretty fantastic way to wrap up a series. I admit that S1 was really rocky, and I wasn't entirely sure about S2, but 3 and 4 are pretty sublime, and elevate Korra as a whole above ATLA.

IMO, S1 was pretty fun and cool with some great standout moments, first half of S2 was the weakest part of the entire show until Beginnings when the show reached new levels altogether, and S3 and S4 were brilliant.

Still think ATLA is better simply because none of the Korra antagonists came close to Azula and Zuko's complexity, though the Royal Fire Nation Family had the entire series to develop their characterisations and back stories over. Team Avatar 1 had more spark and camaraderie than Team Avatar 2 and the unnecessary but believable love triangle as well.

And while Tenzin as the mentor figure had to make a character journey of his own unlike Iroh as the mentor figure, appeal wise he is nowhere close to the Dragon of the West!

[BadAtGender]

There are some things that ATLA did better. It had a lot more where characters gained levels in badass, especially with regards to bending. The ending as a whole really showcased this, where everyone had their standout fights in the final episode. In Korra, the only other character who really gets that sort of power development is Bolin.

 

I feel like many of the stumbling points in the series came from them being very unsure if it would get more than the first season. Had they known ahead of time it would be longer, they could have done things like a) slow burn the romance(s), switch the S1 and S2 villains, c) allow for some changes in development (like maybe Mako learns lightningbending at some point instead of just having it in the first ep.)

 

But with that said, the series really was trying to do something different. Since it starts from an older baseline (late teens instead of early teens, and all relatively more established), that shifts what the story is going to attempt. A lot of ATLA is showcasing "Hey, look at this cool world we came up with" while  Korra is more about doing the journey of development for a single, very multi-faceted character.

 

And that's largely why I think LoK is elevated above AtLA. The first series had some amazing development across the board, but Korra stands as one of the best characters and character arcs ever created on television. The fact that she's a queer woman of colour, which is an exceptionally rare character to see, makes it even better, IMHO.

[Spidey Freak]

Oh, Korra's journey and characterisation was way more unique and faceted than Aang's for sure. Still think ATLA did the non-protagonist characterisations far better. ATLA had more episodes and a smaller number of major characters which helped a lot though.

[iceroll]

I personally still prefer ATLA to LOK. But I think that if LOK wasn't burdened so much by uncertainty from Nickelodeon it could have become a much better show.

 

My biggest issue with LOK was the pacing, a lot of the time it was just plotplotplot, and no time to reflect on the significance of the actual plot points or to take everything in. That was actually my issue with the Last Airbender movie too, and I think that means for me that this series is best when it's given time to naturally develop and set everything up. If Bryke had known that LOK would get four seasons from the beginning, they could have done a lot more to work out the pacing and tie things together for a better overall flow.

 

That isn't to say that LOK wasn't a great show in its own right. LOK had much better animation and music, and it tackled a lot of very mature themes well. They weren't afraid to be a lot more progressive with the show and it really paid off in the end. If this series were to continue through Netflix or something and Bryke were given free reign to plan everything out for however many episodes they wanted, then I think that should would probably be the best show of all time.

[pepsa]

I think LoK didn't come close to AtLAB, first of all the new time and new inventions afton looked stupid and dull, it mad the fighting less appealing. Secondly every storie was rushed. The animation wasn't as good as in the AtLAB, the villans didn't even come close. Than you got the powers like lightning and metalbending that has become a normal thing... It's like everyone knows everything but if they use there powers it doesn't look impresive. Emotionaly it droped the ball, I almost never lived with the characters. The only thing that was beter in LoK was korra, hell yeah she was awesome and her development was insane, she was beter than ang. 

 

Ps: I miss azula

Edited December 26, 2014 by pepsa

[pepsa]

EDIT

Edited December 26, 2014 by pepsa

[iceroll]

I think LoK didn't come close to AtLAB, first of all the new time and new inventions afton looked stupid and dull, it mad the fighting less appealing. Secondly every storie was rushed. The animation wasn't as good as in the AtLAB, the villans didn't even come close. Than you got the powers like lightning and metalbending that has become a normal thing... It's like everyone knows everything but if they use there powers it doesn't look impresive. Emotionaly it droped the ball, I almost never lived with the characters. The only thing that was beter in LoK was korra, hell yeah she was awesome and her development was insane, she was beter than ang. 

 

Ps: I miss azula

Ok the animation was definitely better in LOK though:

 

 

It's in HD for one, and the details and choreography are improved compared to ATLA.

[iceroll]

IGN's Top 10 LOK Episodes:

 

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/12/26/the-top-10-the-legend-of-korra-episodes

 

Do you agree?

[Travod]

Eh. I think Endgame is probably still my favorite episode (Amon death scene the best of the series).

[iceroll]

 

Just cause.

[BadAtGender]

I think there's probably some comparson that can be made between ATLA/LOK and the HTTYD series.

 

ATLA is a simpler story. It's mostly just a quest, where all the pieces are laid out fairly early on (learn the bendings, get to the right place at the right time, defeat the Fire Lord). And because of that structural simplicity, it allows for a bit of breathing room that can be left to play around with the characters and world. So you get a bunch of character developmental arcs that are really cool. One added bonus is that villain arcs are allowed to play out over multiple seasons. Zuko's shift over the course of the series is obvious, but Azula's is also well worth mentioning.

 

Like HTTYD2, Korra had the difficulty of needing to a) connect to ATLA in a number of ways but also be entirely different. It's the classic sequel problem. As such, the themes, politics, and character arcs they did decide to grapple are considerably more complex. There is very little that's black and white. Almost all the villains have viewpoints that make sense; you can see where they're coming from and why they do what they do. (Unalaq is a possible exception.) None of them are as unrefined badness as Ozai was.

 

Neither series is perfect, in the sense that every piece and plot is in the right place and there's nothing wasted or done incorrectly. But that's an impossible situation with serialized stories that have multiple creators. Some things aren't going to quite fit. Perfect isn't ever going to exist. That's why we have fanfic.

 

Still, when you allow for that, you do get two really different results. Is ATLA's simpler plot with longer character arcs better than Korra's thematic complexity and singular focus? That's really up to individual opinion.

 

Combined, though, I'd say there's an argument that ATLA/LOK are the best TV show made.

[Spidey Freak]

I personally still prefer ATLA to LOK. But I think that if LOK wasn't burdened so much by uncertainty from Nickelodeon it could have become a much better show.

 

My biggest issue with LOK was the pacing, a lot of the time it was just plotplotplot, and no time to reflect on the significance of the actual plot points or to take everything in. That was actually my issue with the Last Airbender movie too, and I think that means for me that this series is best when it's given time to naturally develop and set everything up. If Bryke had known that LOK would get four seasons from the beginning, they could have done a lot more to work out the pacing and tie things together for a better overall flow.

 

Yeah, this. An overarching plotline throughout all four books would have really helped make LoK feel like one large, tonally consistent epic instead of four separate (albeit strong) stories. Korra's incredible arc is the only thing tying the books together.

 

I'm also very ambivalent regarding the prominence of the Airbender Family and the Beifong sisters in the show. They were the greatest examples of the original Team Avatar's legacy and them being given significant focus did lead to some great moments (my favorites being Jinora's anointment as Airbender Master and Meelo's "That lady is my hero!" exclamation when Lin singlehandedly brought down the Equalist zepellins pursuing his family). But the downside to having soo many major characters is that some very necessary focus is taken away from the core characters. I wanted fleshed out, nuanced backstories and personalities for Asami, Mako and Bolin but sadly the smaller number of episodes didn't allow them to be as fully realized or explored as Katara, Toph and Sokka. As a result, I couldn't connect to Team Avatar II on a level that I did with Team Avatar I.

 

This also had an impact on their camaraderie. Team Avatar II wasn't very different from your two-dimensional do-gooder gang in Hanna-Barbera cartoons when they were all together. Whereas you could feel the pulsating emotional bond between the members of the original Avatar team. Then there's the fact that none of the Korra villains, despite being fascinating, came close to the intriguing richness and layered dynamics of ATLA's Fire Nation Royal Family.

 

So yeah, I guess the smaller number of episodes combined with the larger cast and some tonal inconsistency keeps LoK from reaching ATLA's greatness. But it is still one of the most daring, ambitious and beautiful television shows ever made.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Spidey Freak

[BadAtGender]

It's worth noting that LOK isn't significantly shorter than ATLA: 52 eps vs. 60. And ATLA did have a few that were pure filler, which can't really be said about LOK. But the split of discrete storylines is a notable difference. It does highlight that ATLA was an external plot arc while LOK was an internal one.

 

 

That discussion aside, Forbes had this neat article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/12/28/netflixs-next-original-series-should-be-a-new-avatar-show/

 

(Although it seems like Amazon Prime would make more sense, since that's where you can get ATLA and LOK in streaming formats at the moment.)

[Spidey Freak]

It's worth noting that LOK isn't significantly shorter than ATLA: 52 eps vs. 60. And ATLA did have a few that were pure filler, which can't really be said about LOK. But the split of discrete storylines is a notable difference. It does highlight that ATLA was an external plot arc while LOK was an internal one.

 

 

That discussion aside, Forbes had this neat article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/12/28/netflixs-next-original-series-should-be-a-new-avatar-show/

 

(Although it seems like Amazon Prime would make more sense, since that's where you can get ATLA and LOK in streaming formats at the moment.)

 

ATLA is 61. And 9 episodes does make a whole lot of difference especially when LoK average season was just 13 episodes. Even ATLA's filler episodes like The Beach, Tales of Baa Sing Se and The Ember Island Players provided us with incredible character beats and relationship development. Those were exactly the ingredients missing in LoK that I really wanted to get to know characters like Asami and Mako better.

 

Regarding the third Avatar show, I personally have a great idea for Korra's Earth Kingdom based successor, but I'm sure DiMartino/Konietzko won't let us down either.  Disney picking up the Avatar-verse is an interesting thought. Nick has completely dropped the ball when it comes to the brand's immense marketing potential.