Batman Returns

[dashrendar44]

Penguin was raised by the circus, not penguins.

 

It's sad how Nolan and his realism schtick has fried people's brains that it left no place for surrealism and fantasy interpretations.

 

Penguin is a call back to Murnau's Nosferatu (Walken's name Shreck is an homage to the actor that incarnated Nosferatu), Browning's Freaks and expressionism so what the heck is that "An orphan being born with a physical difformity can not be raised by a penguin because it's totally unrealistic!"? You know what? Why not? Why keep your imagination limited within boundaries when you can go further and explore the poetical and fantasy flavored spin of the material?

 

It's Burton, wake up, that's the man's touch, his oddities and quirks, his gothic flavored visual aesthetic, his misfits and freaks of nature characters. You don't like it, fine. But don't bitch about the lack of realism or the oddity in itself because the man who made Beetlejuice and Edward Scissorhands (such Greengrass-ian movies aren't they?) has artistically chosen to make a character called the Penguin in a comic book (in which you got Killer Croc, Man-Bat, Clayface) a Penguin man literally and poetically. To blame whimsical elements and lack of cartesian logic in a Burton movie that is surrealism 101...Now that's odd. Take it or leave it but trying to say that it sucks because you apply a cold rationalization on it is not a great criticizing angle. I don't like Pee Wee's Big Adventure, not because it's whimsical and odd but the main character is really grating to no end in his acting he becomes quite unlikable, imo.

 

Just for that shot of Penguin soldiers on a Kamikaze mission, I think this movie is worth the watch for that oddity only.

 

If you expected some kind of Down-to-Earth Cartesian crime drama with a man disguised as a giant bat thrown in there, this movie is not made for you, this movie is TDK. The whole BR is a dark twisted fairytale and a fairytale has never been about realism but allegories set in elseworld as a parabole.

Edited October 19, 2013 by dashrendar44

[baumer]

Just because "it's Burton" doesn't mean we have to take all logic and throw it out the window.  It's like that awesome Jack Nicholson line from As Good As it Gets, " I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability."

 

That's basically Burton in this film, no reason and no accountability, because he's Burton.

[#ED]

Not Enough Nolan / 10.

[ddddeeee]

It's sad how Nolan and his realism schtick has fried people's brains that it left no place for surrealism and fantasy interpretations.

 

Penguin is a call back to Murnau's Nosferatu (Walken's name Shreck is an homage to the actor that incarnated Nosferatu), Browning's Freaks and expressionism so what the heck is that "A orphan being born with a physical difformity can not be raised by a penguin because it's totally unrealistic!"? You know what? Why not? Why keep your imagination limited within boundaries when you can go further and explore the poetical and fantasy flavored spin of the material?

 

It's Burton, wake up, that's the man's touch, his oddities and quirks, his gothic flavored visual aesthetic, his misfits and freaks of nature characters. You don't like it, fine. But don't bitch about the lack of realism or the oddity in itself because the man who made Beetlejuice and Edward Scissorhands (such Greengrass-ian movies aren't they?) has artistically chosen to make a character called the Penguin in a comic book (in which you got Killer Croc, Man-Bat, Clayface) a Penguin man literally and poetically. To blame whimsical elements and lack of cartesian logic in a Burton movie that is surrealism 101...Now that's odd. Take it or leave it but trying to say that it sucks because you apply a cold rationalization on it is not a great criticizing angle. I don't like Pee Wee's Big Adventure, not because it's whimsical and odd but the main character is really grating to no end in his acting he becomes quite unlikable, imo.

 

Just for that shot of Penguin soldiers on a Kamikaze mission, I think this movie is worth the watch for that oddity only.

 

If you expected some kind of Down-to-Earth Cartesian crime drama with a man disguised as a giant bat thrown in there, this movie is not made for you, this movie is TDK. The whole BR is a dark twisted fairytale and a fairytale has never been about realism but allegories set in elseworld as a parabole.

Great post. Couldn't have put it better.

[DAR]

As Bat Mite said in the Brave and Bold cartoon, "Batman's rich history allows him to be interpreted in a multitude of ways."

[baumer]

You can interpret him any way you want, doesn't change the fact that the movie is poorly written and just horrible in so many ways.  To those of us who hate it we'll never see the brilliance.  To me TDKR is just a silly film with a bad script.  But it's still watchable in so many ways.  Batman Returns is a cesspool of shit, puss, garbage and gunk.

[ddddeeee]

Opinions are wonderful things.

[The Stingray]

Baumer, how old were you when you first saw it?

[JohnnyGossamer]

It's sad how Nolan and his realism schtick has fried people's brains that it left no place for surrealism and fantasy interpretations.

 

If you expected some kind of Down-to-Earth Cartesian crime drama with a man disguised as a giant bat thrown in there, this movie is not made for you, this movie is not TDK. The whole BR is a dark twisted fairytale and a fairytale has never been about realism but allegories set in elseworld as a parable.

Exactly why Batman Returns is both very divisive and also stands apart from just about all other superhero film adaptations. For better or ill, it's incredibly unique in its view of Bat's reality and the universe around him. Burton's Gotham's a living, breathing entity. But, again, we all have opinions... And, such being, to each his own.

 

To your initial comment, I agree wholeheartedly. I don't believe that applies to a cinephile as much it applies to the modern casual moviegoer though. A true film fan, whether they dislike Batman Returns or Dark Knight or fill in the blank, appreciates various takes on mythology and icons. I know quite a few that enjoy Batman, Batman Returns, Dark Knight, Batman:The Movie and Batman: Phantasm. They like 'em all for varying reasons. All of the aforementioned seek to entertain and tell Bat's story in their own fashion. A manner true to their voice as animators or filmmakers. It's what makes Batman the most interesting of the adapted to film superhero icons.

Edited October 18, 2013 by JohnnyGossamer

[CoolioD1]

Good to see this masterpiece is still being hotly debated over 21 years later.

[Ozymandias]

This movie is Ass on a Stick, that is all.

 

More like turd on a stick, that should be roasted like a marshmallow to prevent the stench from infecting vulnerable minds.

[baumer]

Baumer, how old were you when you first saw it?

 

17

[Sam]

Batman Returns was just on ABC Family. I'm not sure that was a wise move

[mattmav45]

Who else watched this tonight?

[ddddeeee]

Some great interpretations of what's obviously the best and most interesting Batman movie.

 

http://www.avclub.com/article/batman-returns-digs-into-seasonal-depression-106172

 

http://www.jonathanlack.com/2011/12/25-reviews-of-christmas-18-subtextual.html

[RobinHood26]

Edit: Just watched the Kevin Smith Commentary. LOL funniest thing ever. 

Edited January 2, 2014 by Jay Hollywood

[Darth Homer]

17

Well, there's your problem. If you'd been 16 like I was when I first saw it you would have realised what a masterpiece it was. 

 

BR may not be the greatest Batman movie (though it's just as valid as any other interpretation of the character) but it's the most weird, fucked up, surreal, nightmarish, sexy, psychological, dark, disturbing and sad fairytale movie ever released as a summer family blockbuster. And for that I love it.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Darth Homer

[Darth Homer]

Edit: Just watched the Kevin Smith Commentary. LOL funniest thing ever. 

Finally listened to this. It was funny in parts, but Smith and the other guy sounded like idiots whenever they pointed out plot holes, complained that a scene had no dialogue or bitched that something wasn't like the comics. BR is clearly intended as a character driven fairy tale, not a plot-driven action movie like most comic adaptations. And as for changing things, Burton didn't really deviate from the comic much more than Nolan did. Bob Kane himself even said that Burton's films were closest to his original vision of Batman (who used guns and killed criminals, by the way). Obviously, the character has changed since those early comics, but if Burton's version offends DC purists, they should just look at it as an Elseworlds story.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Darth Homer

[redfirebird2008]

Finally listened to this. It was funny in parts, but Smith and the other guy sounded like idiots whenever they pointed out plot holes, complained that a scene had no dialogue or bitched that something wasn't like the comics. BR is clearly intended as a character driven fairy tale, not a plot-driven action movie like most comic adaptations. And as for changing things, Burton didn't really deviate from the comic much more than Nolan did. Bob Kane himself even said that Burton's films were closest to his original vision of Batman (who used guns and killed criminals, by the way). Obviously, the character has changed since those early comics, but if Burton's version offends DC purists, they should just look at it as an Elseworlds story.

 

I remember Kane saying the Kilmer Batman was his favorite. He's kind of a crook though. Stole a ton of credit and money from the main creative force behind Batman: Bill Finger. Pretty much every iconic thing about Batman from the early comics came from the mind of Bill Finger. Bob Kane was an artist, not a writer. But even the visual ideas were mostly Finger's.

 

For decades, Kane refused to give Finger any credit. Kane became a millionaire while Finger died in poverty. About 99% of the comic book historians out there acknowledge Bill Finger as at least a co-creator. Many of them feel he was not just a co-creator, but the primary force behind it. Kane's name just happened to be on the books because that is how the industry worked back then.

[Goffe]

the only old Batman film that I have in Blu-Ray, pretty damn good. 80/100