The Warner Bros. Thread | Will NOT merge with Paramount...capitalism is still terrible

[dudalb]

18 minutes ago, jimisawesome said:

 

Ok, so when do they open at full capacity? Who pays the ongoing costs for AMC and the other theater chains during this time?

You are asking questions no one knows the answer to. It all depends on how fast the Cvoid is brought under contoal, and that is still an unknown. A lot of it depends on how well people follow the guidelnes..wearing masks, observe social distancing, etc. Peoplee ignore those it will take the vaccine much.much, longer to be effective.Follow the science,guy.

And the questions you ask apply to Restaurants as well. No one is talking about them dissapering, SOme will go under, others survive.

 

[jimisawesome]

1 hour ago, dudalb said:

You are asking questions no one knows the answer to. It all depends on how fast the Cvoid is brought under contoal, and that is still an unknown. A lot of it depends on how well people follow the guidelnes..wearing masks, observe social distancing, etc. Peoplee ignore those it will take the vaccine much.much, longer to be effective.Follow the science,guy.

And the questions you ask apply to Restaurants as well. No one is talking about them dissapering, SOme will go under, others survive.

 

 

My questions where to a specific statement that a person made that theaters will reopen.  They seem confident in this so they should be able to answer them.  The entire AT&T is stupid side from Chris Nolan to agents to people here that seem very confident in this answer that theaters will reopen on some day and everything goes back to exactly the way it was in 2019.  It's my side the WB made the best decision they could given the information we have at this time that is saying we don't have the answers except that movie theaters start to go bankrupt without cash now.  My side so far has been the only side publicly pricing in a single cent of downside risk and not the things go back to normal, AMC gets saved for pennies on the dollar and only the name changes.

 

And WTF?  There are plenty of people talking about restaurants industry collapse.  Again, already in 1 in 6 restaurants have closed this year.  There will be plenty more next year too as shut downs continue and like 5 senators even pretend to give a shit.

 

[WittyUsername]

47 minutes ago, jimisawesome said:

 

My questions where to a specific statement that a person made that theaters will reopen.  They seem confident in this so they should be able to answer them.  The entire AT&T is stupid side from Chris Nolan to agents to people here that seem very confident in this answer that theaters will reopen on some day and everything goes back to exactly the way it was in 2019.  It's my side the WB made the best decision they could given the information we have at this time that is saying we don't have the answers except that movie theaters start to go bankrupt without cash now.  My side so far has been the only side publicly pricing in a single cent of downside risk and not the things go back to normal, AMC gets saved for pennies on the dollar and only the name changes.

 

And WTF?  There are plenty of people talking about restaurants industry collapse.  Again, already in 1 in 6 restaurants have closed this year.  There will be plenty more next year too as shut downs continue and like 5 senators even pretend to give a shit.

 

Even if you believe they made the right call in moving everything to streaming, the fact that they apparently didn’t inform people about it ahead of time was clearly a bad business move on their part. They’ve now burned a bunch of bridges, and are opening themselves up to potential lawsuits. At the very least, they should’ve planned this out better. 

[Legion Again]

2 hours ago, jimisawesome said:

Ok, so when do they open at full capacity?

Who cares? With decent screen management theaters can earn basically normal grosses with 50% capacity. Depending on the speed of recovery that will be possible everywhere April-June or so.    
 

2 hours ago, jimisawesome said:

Who pays the ongoing costs for AMC and the other theater chains during this time?

In a well-functioning society, Congress, but that may depend on what goes down on Jan 5. If Congress doesn’t do the right thing (hardly unprecedented) then chains will continue to accumulate debt and try to arrange financing to bridge them through the next couple months. Some of them may fail, in which case they will go bankrupt and the venues will come under new ownership.

[jimisawesome]

4 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

Even if you believe they made the right call in moving everything to streaming, the fact that they apparently didn’t inform people about it ahead of time was clearly a bad business move on their part. They’ve now burned a bunch of bridges, and are opening themselves up to potential lawsuits. At the very least, they should’ve planned this out better. 

 

They couldn't tell everyone because the first agent they called the entire town would know and it would be 2nd and 3rd hand rumors going around.  And sorry but boo hoo to talent and their agents in this case, if they can't look at the current environment and see the writing on the wall that is on them for being that removed from reality.  These agents should have been preparing their clients for this kind of move and not just from WB but from all the studios.  How did this take them off guard?  How is it they think the marketplace goes back to normal come date X?   How is there no Bloomberg terminal in any of their offices with alerts for not just the studios but the streamers and theaters too?  On the talent side if they where so concerned why didn't they start asking questions when the Apple Bond rumors where going on in October? 

 

Anyone can file a lawsuit but what lawsuit is going to be successful?  The contracts will either have specific language around pandemics/theater closures or it will have a force majeure/ Act of god clause.  Theaters being closed by order of the government for the most part of a year due to a respiratory virus is exactly what force majeure clauses where made for.

 

As for burned bridges, I have a feeling for the most part a check will put all those flames out.  Outside of Nolan where are any of the other people going to go to get the budget and freedom?  Sony and Paramount only release so much.

[jimisawesome]

19 minutes ago, WandaLegion said:

Who cares? With decent screen management theaters can earn basically normal grosses with 50% capacity. Depending on the speed of recovery that will be possible everywhere April-June or so.   
 

In a well-functioning society, Congress, but that may depend on what goes down on Jan 5. If Congress doesn’t do the right thing (hardly unprecedented) then chains will continue to accumulate debt and try to arrange financing to bridge them through the next couple months. Some of them may fail, in which case they will go bankrupt and the venues will come under new ownership.

This was you right " The economic realities that you can’t just wish away” are that theatrical can support big budget movies and streaming can’t yet"?

 

Normal grosses do not happen at 50% capacity.  Theaters make money because theaters are full on Friday night-Sunday afternoon.

 

 

No one in leadership from either party have made any indication at all that an Arts carve out is on the table or well any bailout of any kind for theaters.  Biden has made no indication this way either.  In fact, the people Biden have named to his economic team along with Nancy Pelosi are all deficit hawks.  The incoming administration is going to be Silicon Valley friendly not necessarily Hollywood friendly.  

 

The magical pennies on the dollar.  Yes these venues can come under new ownership namely property developers.  To use my market as an example, there is a better economic use of the land for every theater but the mall locations.  

[Legion Again]

4 minutes ago, jimisawesome said:

This was you right " The economic realities that you can’t just wish away” are that theatrical can support big budget movies and streaming can’t yet"?

Yep, that’s me.

 

5 minutes ago, jimisawesome said:

Normal grosses do not happen at 50% capacity.  Theaters make money because theaters are full on Friday night-Sunday afternoon.

In fact, we’ve seen from many markets that they can. Theaters just give additional screens to the movie that needs it. That you are unaware of this basic reality makes me very skeptical of the value of further conversation.   

[TwoMisfits]

2 hours ago, WandaLegion said:

Yep, that’s me.

 

In fact, we’ve seen from many markets that they can. Theaters just give additional screens to the movie that needs it. That you are unaware of this basic reality makes me very skeptical of the value of further conversation.   

 

I think a lot of folks are underestimating the collective psychological change to the industry from covid...

 

In past "well, movie theaters survived x, they'll survive again"...well, they were never shut down for now 9 months and counting in the large cities...they always had new product and weren't stale/boring/old...they weren't deemed "infection bomb" sites which will kill you if you even breathe in them...nor were they stigmatized in a "how could you go there" in a "only on social media" way...

 

Look, I love them...and I've been going to them during Covid and espousing to others to do so...deaf ears...right now, I literally couldn't pay someone to go.  And when this peters out, I'm still not sure I could.

 

My kids' had that reserved theater social for their honors group this month.  It was a totally free event (the group paid for the reserved theater so the teens paid nothing, so they could have a meeting and then a movie).  With 5 days to go, only 5 kids signed up (2 were mine and 2 were the leader's kids).  At that point, the leader had to send a 2 page letter on the safety of theaters and all the things being done and how she'd been to that theater and no one ever goes...and they still only got 10 teens total (when they had spaces for 20).  In a group of 40...and they didn't struggle to get kids to do trash clean up at a park, where they had 25 the week before.  Movie with friends - picking up litter in the cold.  And the litter won by a mile for attendance.

Edited December 20, 2020 by TwoMisfits

[Legion Again]

I get that people aren’t going to theaters during the pandemic. I get it very much, I have been super pessimistic about short term prospects for BO all year long, and rightly so. I am still very pessimistic about short- term prospects for BO.

 

But the pandemic isn’t forever. Despite the terrible next 2-3 months we’re likely in for, a rational look at the epidemiology of it all suggests quite clearly that this will be the final big wave because of natural+artificial immunity curves. June will be a completely different ballgame. No one can say for sure how people will act afterwards, but there is a lot of good evidence from history, other countries, and even Americans’ behavior during pandemic that consumer engagement in physical social activities will snap back very robustly, perhaps even with a degree of overcompensation.

Edited December 20, 2020 by WandaLegion

[misterpepp]

The numbers for Peninsula, Demon Slayer, Eight Hundred, and Tenet (to some degree) overseas showed that people were willing to go back to theaters in countries where the COVID situation was much more under control. If things change for the better domestically and big movies like Black Widow, F9, etc. start releasing, people will go back. I think it's a little much to assume that we'll never return to doing the activities we liked to do before all of this.

[filmlover]

Restoring theaters to full capacity and releasing movies like everything is normal doesn't even come close to fixing the problems theaters and other forms of major indoor entertainment like Broadway and concerts are facing right now (we're in a global pandemic and there is no money to be made, period). At the Ron DeSantis School of Ignoring Logic, maybe.

Edited December 20, 2020 by filmlover

[TLK]

WB fucked up and it isn't even debatable. A lot of directors and actors go to studios like WB only for their theatrical promise. It made sense to send some movies to streaming. It makes no sense to antagonize some fairly important people in the process. HBO Max has nothing on Netflix. It doesn't have the budget and it doesn't have the reach. If they are lucky then by the end of the year they'll have half the number of subscribers that Hulu has.

[syntaxerror]

Why did WB have to announce the entire 2021 slate being put on streaming all at once? Why couldn't they just take a case-by-case approach, deciding to put individual films on the dual streaming-and-theatrical release strategy depending on the COVID situation at the time of each release? The situation in late 2021 may be very different from early 2021, seems a bit premature to condemn those films to this strategy already.

 

The answer is clear: WB wanted to take advantage of the creative output of their partners to boost their own streaming service. It's self-dealing of the highest order.

 

I don't think there is any issue with putting films on streaming-and-theatrical because of COVID. What they did with Wonder Woman 84 is correct. But to do the same with the entire 2021 slate, unnecessarily ahead of time, just shows that their priority isn't these films but rather their own streaming service. Not to mention the way they disrespected content creators and artists by not even letting them know in advance. Its not only mismanaged, but unethical practice. And they will be made to face the consequences.

[Legion Again]

3 minutes ago, syntaxerror said:

Why did WB have to announce the entire 2021 slate being put on streaming all at once? Why couldn't they just take a case-by-case approach, deciding to put individual films on the dual streaming-and-theatrical release strategy depending on the COVID situation at the time of each release? The situation in late 2021 may be very different from early 2021, seems a bit premature to condemn those films to this strategy already.

 

The answer is clear: WB wanted to take advantage of the creative output of their partners to boost their own streaming service. It's self-dealing of the highest order.

 

I don't think there is any issue with putting films on streaming-and-theatrical because of COVID. What they did with Wonder Woman 84 is correct. But to do the same with the entire 2021 slate, unnecessarily ahead of time, just shows that their priority isn't these films but rather their own streaming service. Not to mention the way they disrespected content creators and artists by not even letting them know in advance. Its not only mismanaged, but unethical practice. And they will be made to face the consequences.

Very well said, each paragraph.

[filmlover]

FWIW the first movie in the 2021 deal (The Little Things) is supposed to come out in less than six weeks but there has been zero promotional items released for it and given that Denzel is reportedly one of the people unhappy about this it's likely that it's about to become the second movie to quietly drop out of the deal after Reminiscence. Tom & Jerry and Mortal Kombat are still the only ones 100% confirmed for simultaneous theater/streaming releases. Judas probably is as well since it's supposed to come out in February (Black History Month/the Oscar deadline this year).

[lorddemaxus]

13 minutes ago, filmlover said:

FWIW the first movie in the 2021 deal (The Little Things) is supposed to come out in less than six weeks but there has been zero promotional items released for it and given that Denzel is reportedly one of the people unhappy about this it's likely that it's about to become the second movie to quietly drop out of the deal after Reminiscence. Tom & Jerry and Mortal Kombat are still the only ones 100% confirmed for simultaneous theater/streaming releases. Judas probably is as well since it's supposed to come out in February (Black History Month/the Oscar deadline this year).

 

[charlie Jatinder]

So WW84 is a theatrical disaster. How are people around you interested in getting this thing on HBO Max?

[DlAMONDZ]

28 minutes ago, syntaxerror said:

Why did WB have to announce the entire 2021 slate being put on streaming all at once? Why couldn't they just take a case-by-case approach, deciding to put individual films on the dual streaming-and-theatrical release strategy depending on the COVID situation at the time of each release? The situation in late 2021 may be very different from early 2021, seems a bit premature to condemn those films to this strategy already.

 

The answer is clear: WB wanted to take advantage of the creative output of their partners to boost their own streaming service. It's self-dealing of the highest order.

 

I don't think there is any issue with putting films on streaming-and-theatrical because of COVID. What they did with Wonder Woman 84 is correct. But to do the same with the entire 2021 slate, unnecessarily ahead of time, just shows that their priority isn't these films but rather their own streaming service. Not to mention the way they disrespected content creators and artists by not even letting them know in advance. Its not only mismanaged, but unethical practice. And they will be made to face the consequences.

What consequences could they possibly face by angering creatives? 99% of them are replaceable. If they left they'd longer have to pay actors 10m+ to star in flops. I'd consider that a win

[filmlover]

2 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

 

Guess either they worked it out or they're just going ahead anyway heh (Denzel apparently is only starring in it and not one of the producers so he could only do so much). Could be they're also taking advantage of the extended deadline although the January date was set pre-COVID so good chance it's not an awards contender.

[Ms Lady Hawk]

3 minutes ago, charlie Jatinder said:

So WW84 is a theatrical disaster. How are people around you interested in getting this thing on HBO Max?

And this was foreseeable. Anyone with a brain could see that the release of this movie to theaters wouldn’t bear much fruit. 
 

With about 2,750 dying a day and many people without food, movie going is not a priority at the moment. I am excited to see it and I think some are too, but not at the level it would have been otherwise.