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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker | 20 DEC 2019 | NO SPOILERS | Reviews Page 651 | Worst reviewed live action Star Wars movie Ever

AndyLL

Talking about the leaks, not matter how vague, can lead to a thread ban if not spoiler tagged.

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so on the press day, i get the impression they didn't screen much at all for the press

 

exhibitor screenings next week before the premiere , 2 weeks away from previews !!

 

Still think Disney marketing for this is the worst of the 3

Edited by Ryan Reynolds
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Got the 'one last look at my friends' trailer before a screening of Knives Out last night. Gotta say, in a loud theatre the music on that is really effective. I turned to my girlfriend, who hated TLJ, and asked if we were going to see this in cinemas. 'Of course we are', she said. 

 

 

Edited by Hatebox
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Ok, I'm gonna defend Rian. 

 

IMO, TLJ problems are just the symptom of the problem caused by TFA. That movie was made as a reaction to PT backlash so they reverted to OT imitation right down to half-baked Empire 2.0 vs Rebellion 2.0 (but unexplained despite need for explanation why 30 years later nothing had changed), half-baked new Luke (but more powerful!), half-baked new Vader/Anakin (but more conflicted!), half-baked Han split in a comic relief side (bumbling Storm trooper) and a cocky one (quippy ace pilot). And, finally, we got half-baked Emperor (but CGI).  That was a piss-poor foundation that was going to crumble under the weight of sequels once nostalgia, induced by return of OT characters, wore off.

 

Enter Rian Johnson. IMO, he figured out correctly that Snoke didn't work. So he introduced something more interesting for the future, which is having a Skywalker character (Kylo) rise to the status of an Emperor equivalent. The next movie or movies (for I believe they wanted more than one trilogy after TFA made 2 billion) would explore his reign. I think that part of why TLJ confounded fans is that it was really meant as a set up for more movies. Same goes for Resistance being reduced to 20 people. And that Broom boi coda. They all point to me at a long arc rather than something wrapped up in the next movie. 

 

I also think that he figured out correctly that Finn and Poe are indeed one character split in 2 with more emphasis on comedy or cockiness depending on the character but basically the same voice. I know this isn't a popular thing to say but I look at scenes in spots and trailers and the "trio" really doesn't have distinctive voices. It's 3 same characters.  I just think that he didn't execute the split to 3 or more POVs well in TLJ, for they felt like separate movies that didn't gel. In particular, Rey side of the story (Kylo, Luke, Snoke) felt completely separate from Resistance side (chase and canto bight) and being by far the strongest, it reduced the Resistance plots to fast-forwardable filler. But, again, the problem strictly lies in poor foundation in TFA.  Rey never had any connection to the Resistance, so Jedi training was never going to feel like an organic part of helping the Resistance (since she didn't belong to them unlike Luke who was a long-standing member by the time he went to Dagobah).  Therefore, symptoms of the problem (characters don't work, characters don't have proper connection with each other and various larger groups or themes) showed here whereas the problem was already in TFA but nostalgia goggles prevented people from seeing it. It tends to happen in movies that try to give characters some dept instead of having actors rely on their charm only (TFA). They came off less likable here and people started to notice that characters weren't compelling. 

 

So my point is that I think he was setting up a longer story than just next movie and he couldn't save the shallow universe and characters when foundation was barely there to begin with. Whatever he tried to build seems destined for longer run but they decided against it due to boxoffice setbacks. It's typical of studios to panic and start cancelling things left and right at the first sign of (temporary) trouble. 

 

So yeah, I think that TLJ would've made more sense if they had more movies coming out. This way, it felt like a conclusion itself when you know that only one movie was coming out after it.

 

 

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I think this Inevitable, It might not be Episode X or part of the Skywalker saga but it could just take place after the Skywalker saga and branded as something else with the new characters of the saga. all they need to do in IX is kill off the last two remaining skywalkers then no one can say this new saga is part of the Skywalker saga.

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1 hour ago, Valonqar said:

Ok, I'm gonna defend Rian. 

 

IMO, TLJ problems are just the symptom of the problem caused by TFA. That movie was made as a reaction to PT backlash so they reverted to OT imitation right down to half-baked Empire 2.0 vs Rebellion 2.0 (but unexplained despite need for explanation why 30 years later nothing had changed), half-baked new Luke (but more powerful!), half-baked new Vader/Anakin (but more conflicted!), half-baked Han split in a comic relief side (bumbling Storm trooper) and a cocky one (quippy ace pilot). And, finally, we got half-baked Emperor (but CGI).  That was a piss-poor foundation that was going to crumble under the weight of sequels once nostalgia, induced by return of OT characters, wore off.

 

Enter Rian Johnson. IMO, he figured out correctly that Snoke didn't work. So he introduced something more interesting for the future, which is having a Skywalker character (Kylo) rise to the status of an Emperor equivalent. The next movie or movies (for I believe they wanted more than one trilogy after TFA made 2 billion) would explore his reign. I think that part of why TLJ confounded fans is that it was really meant as a set up for more movies. Same goes for Resistance being reduced to 20 people. And that Broom boi coda. They all point to me at a long arc rather than something wrapped up in the next movie. 

 

I also think that he figured out correctly that Finn and Poe are indeed one character split in 2 with more emphasis on comedy or cockiness depending on the character but basically the same voice. I know this isn't a popular thing to say but I look at scenes in spots and trailers and the "trio" really doesn't have distinctive voices. It's 3 same characters.  I just think that he didn't execute the split to 3 or more POVs well in TLJ, for they felt like separate movies that didn't gel. In particular, Rey side of the story (Kylo, Luke, Snoke) felt completely separate from Resistance side (chase and canto bight) and being by far the strongest, it reduced the Resistance plots to fast-forwardable filler. But, again, the problem strictly lies in poor foundation in TFA.  Rey never had any connection to the Resistance, so Jedi training was never going to feel like an organic part of helping the Resistance (since she didn't belong to them unlike Luke who was a long-standing member by the time he went to Dagobah).  Therefore, symptoms of the problem (characters don't work, characters don't have proper connection with each other and various larger groups or themes) showed here whereas the problem was already in TFA but nostalgia goggles prevented people from seeing it. It tends to happen in movies that try to give characters some dept instead of having actors rely on their charm only (TFA). They came off less likable here and people started to notice that characters weren't compelling. 

 

So my point is that I think he was setting up a longer story than just next movie and he couldn't save the shallow universe and characters when foundation was barely there to begin with. Whatever he tried to build seems destined for longer run but they decided against it due to boxoffice setbacks. It's typical of studios to panic and start cancelling things left and right at the first sign of (temporary) trouble. 

 

So yeah, I think that TLJ would've made more sense if they had more movies coming out. This way, it felt like a conclusion itself when you know that only one movie was coming out after it.

 

 

 

 

My thoughts are that the director made a standalone movie in the SW franchise in an era of serialized story telling.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, The Panda said:

All of that sounds like great logic and all but have you considered the hook for TROS is that it’s the sequel to the greatest Star Wars Movie ever made?

odd considering the marketing really is not focusing on it being a sequel to TLJ really but a finale to the Skywalker saga and Rey vs Ren ROTS style showdown. 

 

Which makes sense as regardless of feelings around TLJ,  the SW fanbase wants to know how the saga ends and finally see an epic lightsaber battle. 

 

 

You guys really think audiences are dying to see how Finn and Poe grow from their failures in TLJ?

Edited by Lordmandeep

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8 minutes ago, Lordmandeep said:

 

 

My thoughts are that the director made a standalone movie in the SW franchise in an era of serialized story telling.

 

 

 

The OT was serialized.

40 years ago.

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16 minutes ago, Jabba'sMoofmilker said:

I think this Inevitable, It might not be Episode X or part of the Skywalker saga but it could just take place after the Skywalker saga and branded as something else with the new characters of the saga. all they need to do in IX is kill off the last two remaining skywalkers then no one can say this new saga is part of the Skywalker saga.

Who cares, almost nobody talked about the "Skywalker Saga" before Disney (probably inspired by the success of a fake finale for the MCU) started marketing for Episode IX.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Lordmandeep said:

odd considering the marketing really is not focusing on it being a sequel to TLJ really but a finale to the Skywalker saga and Rey vs Ren ROTS style showdown. 

 

Which makes sense as regardless of feelings around TLJ,  the SW fanbase wants to know how the saga ends and finally see an epic lightsaber battle. 

 

 

You guys really think audiences are dying to see how Finn and Poe grow from their failures in TLJ?

Sounds like the hook is it’s a sequel to TLJ, the best Star Wars movie, to me.

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22 minutes ago, MrGlass2 said:

Who cares, almost nobody talked about the "Skywalker Saga" before Disney (probably inspired by the success of a fake finale for the MCU) started marketing for Episode IX.

 

 

I mean it was always known as the "Saga" adding Skywalker in front of it makes sense as Disney moves away from the main movies into spinoff territory.

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Skywalker Saga is indeed just a marketing ploy to distinguish Episodes from spin-offs. 

Edited by Valonqar

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Would under The Lion King's DOM gross be the "this is a disappointment" (or worse, "this is a disaster") number for TROS for folks, or would it be lower?  $543.6M seems like an interesting number for a club...

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2 hours ago, Knights of Ren said:

ELGfuG7WsAARZif?format=jpg&name=900x900

strong LOTR vibe. lots of Hobbits, Dernhelm/Eowyn without the helmet ;) ,Aragorn and Tiny Gandalf. :lol:

Edited by Valonqar

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5 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

Would under The Lion King's DOM gross be the "this is a disappointment" (or worse, "this is a disaster") number for TROS for folks, or would it be lower?  $543.6M seems like an interesting number for a club...

I think people will label it a disappointment if it goes under TLJ DOM and possibly WW.

 

I think O/U TLK DOM is interesting and that probably requires the OW to be on the lower end of tracking given the strong legs potential.

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I have an honest question. Why do you guys see strong legs potential (especially since season is shortened so big post-holiday drop will happen earlier in 3d week or something)? I get seeing potential for bigger OW than TLJ cause last movie factor. But legs come from WOM after the movie is seen and I'd like to hear what you expect to be there that makes you think it'll have legs. You can put your predictions/speculation in spoiler tags if you are afraid some may turn out to be correct.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

I have an honest question. Why do you guys see strong legs potential (especially since season is shortened so big post-holiday drop will happen earlier in 3d week or something)? I get seeing potential for bigger OW than TLJ cause last movie factor. But legs come from WOM after the movie is seen and I'd like to hear what you expect to be there that makes you think it'll have legs. You can put your predictions/speculation in spoiler tags if you are afraid some may turn out to be correct.

 

 

In me area, TLJ had such a wide booking that it literally had almost completely empty 9pm and later shows by day 3 (aka Sat)...and it left seats everywhere the 1st week (and didn't sell out a single showing Xmas week)...

 

So far, my area is NOT giving TROS that type of screen booking...so, by default, it will force some folks off OW to a "legs" showing...

 

I think TROS under TLJ OW is almost certain just b/c of the way this film is getting set in areas...maybe that changes last minute, but there are a ton of wides on Dec 13 that can't be dropped and 2 wides on Dec 20 that will need space...so different than the clear out TLJ got (where nothing opened the prior weekend and only Ferdinand opened in OW)...

 

EDIT: And to add - it would be one thing if they could do round-the-clock stuffed showings to make up for the tighter market than TLJ...but this franchise's fans have kinda stopped doing those except for opening night:)...

Edited by TwoMisfits
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6 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

I have an honest question. Why do you guys see strong legs potential (especially since season is shortened so big post-holiday drop will happen earlier in 3d week or something)? I get seeing potential for bigger OW than TLJ cause last movie factor. But legs come from WOM after the movie is seen and I'd like to hear what you expect to be there that makes you think it'll have legs. You can put your predictions/speculation in spoiler tags if you are afraid some may turn out to be correct.

 

Because even a weak calendar still has it's perks, it's just mostly going to rely on how it's received by audiences. 

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