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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker | 20 DEC 2019 | NO SPOILERS | Reviews Page 651 | Worst reviewed live action Star Wars movie Ever

AndyLL

Talking about the leaks, not matter how vague, can lead to a thread ban if not spoiler tagged.

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10 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

Making Star Wars smaller might work for you and that's great. But that's a step back especially in this era of cost-cutting blockbusters. Enjoy your cheap-ass Feige filmmaking. 

I'm fairly certain MCU budgets for the big films exceed those of Star Wars, no? Also I don't think Feige is necessarily cheap, he just doesnt spend frivolously. His ability to keep participations/residuals contained has allowed the most successful film series of all time to wrap up without paychecks and backend making the films financially impossible. Besides, he barely pays himself anything compared to producers of similar stature, so he's cheap by example, which is not a terrible thing as far as I'm concerned

 

Its all besides the point. I don't necessarily agree that MCU movies look cheap (with some exceptions, the VFX is generally world class), but I concede they don't look as pretty as Star Wars films. Yet they have been on the rise and SW on the decline. I think its a testament to the fact that audiences are coming to MCU films not just for spectacle and "expensive looking" shots, but because they care about the story and the characters. Star Wars needs someone like Feige, not Feige exactly, to guide the process and elicit a similar level of interest from audiences. SW previously had Lucas, but now without an overarching sense of direction and an adept curator of the franchise at the helm, the films have languished. Sure, they look great, but that hasn't been the problem at all. Its exactly the kind of stuff that Feige brings to the MCU that is needed for Star Wars. That doesn't mean Feige personally, but someone like him in a similar role. He just happens to be the best possible example since no one has as consistently led a franchise as he has. It could be anyone, just clearly not Kennedy 

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2 minutes ago, Noctis said:

Anyone else also just so tired of painting the Siths and Jedis as black and white? The only time I felt like there was a genuine grey area was in TLJ but otherwise it's so morally simplistic and doesn't offer the characters the opportunity to explore more complex emotions.

If you want to have moral greyness in Star Wars, you can't use the Sith as villains. The nature of their ideology makes it pretty hard to make them anything but totally evil. The Jedi are not always portrayed as perfect, both the PT and TLJ criticize them with varying degrees of success.

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2 minutes ago, Noctis said:

Anyone else also just so tired of painting the Siths and Jedis as black and white? The only time I felt like there was a genuine grey area was in TLJ but otherwise it's so morally simplistic and doesn't offer the characters the opportunity to explore more complex emotions.

One of my big criticisms of Rian Johnson is how he gently explored the grey area of the force, but didn't commit to it. He truly could have taken this trilogy in a different direction, starting with Snoke's throne room fight, but he relented to conventional storytelling from there on out.

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It’s really a lack of leadership at Lucasfilm. Other studios under Disney have at least some backbone.

 

Anyway, it has its moments. But my lord, what a mess.

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1 minute ago, OncomingStorm93 said:

I don't know how anyone could seriously call Feige cheap after Infinity War/Endgame.

people living under rock.

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2 minutes ago, OncomingStorm93 said:

One of my big criticisms of Rian Johnson is how he gently explored the grey area of the force, but didn't commit to it. He truly could have taken this trilogy in a different direction, starting with Snoke's throne room fight, but he relented to conventional storytelling from there on out.

The final act of TLJ was anything but conventional in terms of Star Wars IMO. 

 

He should have done the third film with his own vision. 

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What are the odds that Disney is going to try to pull a Halloween/Terminator and retcon the sequel from canon in the future?

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3 minutes ago, OncomingStorm93 said:

I don't know how anyone could seriously call Feige cheap after Infinity War/Endgame.

 

None of their movies actually are cheap. A lot of them, not IW/Endgame, maddeningly look way cheaper than they are.

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Just now, WittyUsername said:

What are the odds that Disney is going to try to pull a Halloween/Terminator and retcon the sequel from canon in the future?

At that point retcon the prequels too...

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Just now, Jayhawk the Hutt said:

At that point retcon the prequels too...

Doing either of those things would be the dumbest things they could possibly do. Leave the past alone, let bygones be bygones, and move forward. That's what great series do and that's what SW should do.

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As the US vs Nazi theme is a backdrop of many Hollywood films and easily creates a black and white division, was wondering how can a gray area be explored. One start is the lack of credit given to US's post-War allies turned enemies Soviet Union - who did tremendously to beat the Nazi but never got enough credit. If someone with an ideology you hate has played a huge and arguably bigger role in defeating the Evil side, you have to explore what about that opposite ideology you can make peace with. This also overlaps with climate change as the winning ideology has played it's part in destruction of natural resources. A version of climate change that envelopes multiple galaxies could be nice platform for new SWs. One in which the 'Light' side has to make peace with allies-turned-enemies (who were banned from the Light side), lest the climate-destructed Universe becomes a breeding ground for a new Dark side (a process which has already begun).

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Saying this is worse than CRIMES OF GRINDELWALD feels overblown to me. For all its issues, THE RISE OF SKYWALKER is focused on Rey and Kylo, whereas GRINDELWALD wants to be an epic prequel about the Grindelwald/Dumbledore feud that for some reason is focused on Newt Scamander of all people.

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1 minute ago, Menor said:

Doing either of those things would be the dumbest things they could possibly do. Leave the past alone, let bygones be bygones, and move forward. That's what great series do and that's what SW should do.

I'm in total agreement btw and I don't think Disney will do either.

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1 minute ago, Noctis said:

The final act of TLJ was anything but conventional in terms of Star Wars IMO. 

 

He should have done the third film with his own vision. 

For the sake of discussion, I'm referring to everything after the throne room scene as conventional. I'm aware the throne room was part of the third act.

 

After that moment of moral ambiguity, prompted by Kylo, the lines of good and evil are quickly and forcefully redrawn. We have sacrifice plays. Armies fighting. A speech about the power of love. A last second (but entirely expected) appearance by a hero to save the day.

 

Rian Johnson's direction of the final 30 minutes of the film is fantastic, I won't contest that. But on a storytelling level, I don't see where it's anything but conventional. Any exploration of moral ambiguity, the purpose of the force, letting old things die, it's all tossed away for a giant battle of good vs evil.

 

What are you seeing that I'm not?

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2 minutes ago, a2k said:

As the US vs Nazi theme is a backdrop of many Hollywood films and easily creates a black and white division, was wondering how can a gray area be explored. One start is the lack of credit given to US's post-War allies turned enemies Soviet Union - who did tremendously to beat the Nazi but never got enough credit. If someone with an ideology you hate has played a huge and arguably bigger role in defeating the Evil side, you have to explore what about that opposite ideology you can make peace with. This also overlaps with climate change as the winning ideology has played it's part in destruction of natural resources. A version of climate change that envelopes multiple galaxies could be nice platform for new SWs. One in which the 'Light' side has to make peace with allies-turned-enemies (who were banned from the Light side), lest the climate-destructed Universe becomes a breeding ground for a new Dark side (a process which has already begun).

That's a neat idea though I could also see it going badly wrong (as it would be easy to execute poorly). Though one thing I have always wanted to see in the SW universe is a Cold War-esque scenario. That provides a massive amount of storytelling opportunities.  

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1 minute ago, OncomingStorm93 said:

I don't know how anyone could seriously call Feige cheap after Infinity War/Endgame.

 

 

One thing I noticed about Avengers Infinity War, was that a lot of people were simply blown away by the epic scale of that movie.

 

- The massive cast and amount of heroes on screen together.

- The massive CGI fights involving insane super powers and infinity Stones

- The film being set in all those different places.

 

 

AjwOwc.gif

 

 

Like seeing Thanos throwing a moon or that insane fight between Doctor Strange and Thanos...I dont know about you but I think people did not find that a 'small scale, low budget" film. 

 

 

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The past need to die. SW fanbase stuck in 80s need to die.

The problem is that disney still wants our money.  Galaxy's edge and toy sales are tanking.

 

Hence the desperate pandering to fans that lucasfilm has been been telling to "go die".  As if a little pandering has any hope of winning back fans you've labeled as "toxic" for years...

 

 

 

 

 

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