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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker | 20 DEC 2019 | NO SPOILERS | Reviews Page 651 | Worst reviewed live action Star Wars movie Ever

AndyLL

Talking about the leaks, not matter how vague, can lead to a thread ban if not spoiler tagged.

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1 hour ago, Cappoedameron said:

Cause PT was planned out. ST was literally just tossed together cause they purchased the franchise.

George Lucas at the AOTC premier said he had to think of what the heck he was going to do for ROTS and the beach the next week.  Sure he had ideas, but he definitely never had a concrete plan.  George Lucas just understands the roots of Star Wars much better than JJ/Disney, therefore he can get away with less planning. 

Edited by Knights of Ren
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13 hours ago, Menor said:

Gonna highlight these 3 as OT had cheesy dialogue, dumb character decisions, and cartoony action scenes just as much as PT. Cheese is part of the charm of Star Wars. Now, you can argue that the cheese in the PT doesn't work for you, but I think its silly to pretend that one cheese is objectively worse than the other.

Cheese is a funny thing. If everything else in the film is working, it can be delightful. If everything else in the film isn't working, it somehow makes it worse.

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Yeah kinda tired of people claiming the PT was planned out. Just read up on the making of those films they weren't planned out lol.

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1 hour ago, Darth Lehnsherr said:

Yeah kinda tired of people claiming the PT was planned out. Just read up on the making of those films they weren't planned out lol.

 

 

Issue is the end goal was always set ... which was to show the Rise of Vader.

 

 

The thing is you can have a story be written on how to reach an end goal, but actually having an end goal allows there to be a much more cohesive story.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Darth Lehnsherr said:

Yeah kinda tired of people claiming the PT was planned out. Just read up on the making of those films they weren't planned out lol.

It's more like they had clear overall story goals from the beginning. The ST should never have been made without hashing the general direction out from the start.

Edited by Menor

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I always thought the ST was intended to be the story of Ben Solos redemption.  Seems like that was the only thing set in stone from the beginning.  The rest was do whatever tf you want to get us there 

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3 hours ago, Darth Lehnsherr said:

Yeah kinda tired of people claiming the PT was planned out. Just read up on the making of those films they weren't planned out lol.

The prequels may not have been fully planned out to the letter, but they still had a singular creative force driving the proceedings, maintaining consistency. There was no tonal whiplash, or heavy retconning.

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2 hours ago, OncomingStorm93 said:

The prequels may not have been fully planned out to the letter, but they still had a singular creative force driving the proceedings, maintaining consistency. There was no tonal whiplash, or heavy retconning.

 

Meh, a single creative lead can still do the very same things. ESB had quite a different tone from ANH, not to mention that there was a giant change in the story in that Vader wasn't a pupil of Obi Wan who had killed Luke's father, but instead was Luke's father himself. That's more jarring than any "retconning" in the ST.

 

Lucas basically threw a ton of stuff at a wall with every single movie, and then looked at what sticked. And if that meant claiming the opposite of what he had said before, so be it, he'll find a way to explain it in some form.

 

There is no need to make incorrect claims about something, or twisting things around, just to use it as argument against something else. If something didn't work out this time around, point out that it didn't work for you, don't try to change the past so  that it better fits yoru narrative. Claiming that one creative lead is more likely to create a consistent story than multiple creative leads is a valid point, though it isn't guaranteed to be true. Claiming that the PT was pre-planned while the ST wasn't, when that is obviously false, is not a valid point.

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21 minutes ago, George Parr said:

 

Meh, a single creative lead can still do the very same things. ESB had quite a different tone from ANH, not to mention that there was a giant change in the story in that Vader wasn't a pupil of Obi Wan who had killed Luke's father, but instead was Luke's father himself. That's more jarring than any "retconning" in the ST.

 

Lucas basically threw a ton of stuff at a wall with every single movie, and then looked at what sticked. And if that meant claiming the opposite of what he had said before, so be it, he'll find a way to explain it in some form.

 

There is no need to make incorrect claims about something, or twisting things around, just to use it as argument against something else. If something didn't work out this time around, point out that it didn't work for you, don't try to change the past so  that it better fits yoru narrative. Claiming that one creative lead is more likely to create a consistent story than multiple creative leads is a valid point, though it isn't guaranteed to be true. Claiming that the PT was pre-planned while the ST wasn't, when that is obviously false, is not a valid point.

 

Disagree on multiple points:

 

1: "Vader killed your father" to "Vader is your father", even if it wasn't the initial plan, is a whole lot less of a leap than "Your parents were nobodies, junk traders who sold you for drinking money" to "Your parents chose to be nobodies because your ——— was the ———- —- and ——— to ——-, also they didn't sell you off for drinking money, ignore that part".

 

2: At least when Lucas had to clarify plot differences, he did so in ways that expanded the mythology. When the sequels wanted to clarify plot differences, they outright ignored aspects (Rose kissing Finn), reversed aspects for little reason (Kylo's mask, Luke's lightsaber), or invented things that weren't set up whatsoever prior (Rey's family). The twist of Vader being Luke's father works emotionally because New Hope already established an emotional connection between Luke and Vader (that being Luke believes Vader killed his father).

 

3: Are you arguing that the prequels weren't pre-planned? From the moment Lucas started writing A Phantom Menace, the ending was already set: Anakin would fall to the dark side, Yoda and Obi-Wan would end up in exile, the Jedi would fall, the Emperor would rise. These endings were locked due to the existence of the original trilogy. So saying there was no plan for the prequels, when the prequels always had to match up with what was established decades ago, that is not a valid point.

 

 

Edits because this is still a spoiler free zone for some reason.

Edited by OncomingStorm93
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I agree the PT had a better story and was more worked out from the beginning then the ST was,but ,as always, execution is what matters, and ,except for ROTS, the execution for the PT was lousy.

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6 hours ago, MrGlass2 said:

Clearly Boyega is stanning for The Invisible Man.:sparta:

Well. working for Blumhouse is where his career seems to be heading....

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We look more fondly on the prequel era because The Clone Wars did a great job of clarifying certain plot points and executing character arcs. S6 of TCW for example pretty much explains all the behind the scenes of what happened in AOTC for example. Hopefully we get a similar show for the ST.

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On 2/14/2020 at 12:00 AM, Ninenin said:

I actually agree the phrase is overused and annoying but never has it been more relevant  

Sure, if I was actually a boomer. Therefore, your trite comment that ignored everything I said, was both irrelevant, unoriginal and incorrect.

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2 hours ago, Darth Lehnsherr said:

We look more fondly on the prequel era because The Clone Wars did a great job of clarifying certain plot points and executing character arcs. S6 of TCW for example pretty much explains all the behind the scenes of what happened in AOTC for example. Hopefully we get a similar show for the ST.

It gives background but the end of AOTC tells you pretty much all you need to know.

"Welcome, Lord Tyranus. You have done well."

Jango tells Obi-Wan he was hired by a man named Tyranus.

So it makes it clear that Dooku was behind the clone army, which is what was important for the overall plot of the trilogy. TCW then gives further background.

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8 hours ago, Warlock said:

Sure, if I was actually a boomer. Therefore, your trite comment that ignored everything I said, was both irrelevant, unoriginal and incorrect.

You don't have to be old to be a boomer, you just have to believe your old and dated opinions ARE the right ones. Embrace it

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2 hours ago, Ninenin said:

You don't have to be old to be a boomer, you just have to believe your old and dated opinions ARE the right ones. Embrace it

What is the correct slang terminology for addressing a simple-minded individual that cannot or refuses to comprehend the issues addressed? I wonder. 

Edited by Warlock

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1 hour ago, Warlock said:

What is the correct slang terminology for addressing a simple-minded individual that cannot or refuses to comprehend the issues addressed? I wonder. 

The only issue here is your gatekeeping.

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