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China Box Office: General Discussion Thread | Wonder Woman - Dec 18, Soul - Dec 25

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On that note, instead of going back and forth, which frankly was done in 2019 enough, I am just gonna congratulate Avatar fans on their feat. 

 

I never expected Endgame to get the All Time Record in first place, so having that was a nice bonus. That said, like @WandaLegion said having the two most watched films of 21st century and highest grossing first run is nice enough a flex.😍

 

Unless Hollywood destroy the box office with streaming wars, see you with Avengers 7 or Avengers 8 whichever will be next event.

Edited by charlie Jatinder
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2 hours ago, charlie Jatinder said:

Yes but almost all serialised franchise have drops going forward the sequels

This (specially adjusted for era), Lord of the rings first 3, Fast and furious are special, franchise that grew tend to have done it on the help of market growing, like X-men, planet of the apes and others, and could not sustain it past the giant jump that slowed until 2014 or so.

 

The biggest Potter is still the first one, Star Wars also arguably as well and so on, Bonds did well with the grow but Goldfinger and Thunderball could be argued for the biggest one.

 

It goes a bit both way, obviously Cameron is way more impressive than the directors of a franchise entry doing very well, that is trivial and not really arguable.

 

But at a franchise level doing that at what over #15 in movies in a franchise (in a short window, is something impossible to fathom not so long ago.

 

I..e Cameron credit anyone on Marvel making a specific movie obviously, but the marvel cast an Feige credit is much above Avatar cast and producer arguably.

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Just now, charlie Jatinder said:

Even among LoTR, adjusted for ER, Fellowship MAY be bigger grosser. Need to check though.

Maybe be yes (with both that and market growth, but it went up for every entry domestic as well, 313->339->377 (and the dvd sales was not making any sense versus anything today in that regard)

 

the growth was so significant (880->936->1.14) and quite similar to domestic that I would not have consider ER being a reason without checking,

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11 minutes ago, Barnack said:

Maybe be yes (with both that and market growth, but it went up for every entry domestic as well, 313->339->377 (and the dvd sales was not making any sense versus anything today in that regard)

 

the growth was so significant (880->936->1.14) and quite similar to domestic that I would not have consider ER being a reason without checking,

So I checked.

 

The Europe numbers aren't that higher as I expected seeing Lumiere admits, which have UK Admits for FOTR a bit higher for some reason. A decline is there but not too much. 

 

ROTK will remain bigger.

Edited by charlie Jatinder
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I assume this kind of argument will happen again when LORT re-release here.

 

- Harry Potter is the best.

- Bullshit, Lord of the Rings is the king.

- The first HP joined billion club. Where is the lord?

- Fantastic Beasts 2 went flop. That never happened on Hobbits.

- bla bla bla

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1 hour ago, NCsoft said:

Back in 2019 I commented on the film that I thought Endgame's run was probably the most comparable to - Jurassic Park (1993), and that idea was ridiculed thoroughly, but while I realize it's a pointless exercise to compare global box office runs of completely different era, if we were to compare endgame to another worldwide historical record holder, I stand by the judgement that JP is the best comparison.

 

The resemblance is definitely there, JP didn't win the domestic crown (against ET and TFA in Endgame's case) and won the worldwide crown without actually tapping into the potential of all the market (Titanic proved 4 years later what great potential is there). Endgame squeaked into the worldwide crown though not reaching what a Avatar/Titanic like run could have reached in global market in 2019, doing so without reaching TFA domestic, Wolf Warrior2/Wandering Earth China, or Avatar overseas, it's clear what type of global run it was closest to. 

Of course this doesn't change the fact that Endgame had an exceptional run, the second best of the century, and the second best I've ever followed, obviously. 

Great post. While I don't believe (and I highly doubt you do either) that the global market is untapped to the extent that it was when Jurassic Park was the highest-grossing film of all time—not even a Titanic-sized hit could double today's $2.8b record and make $5.6b—the comparison is definitely a very apt one in terms of how Endgame didn't fully realize the potential of the 2019 global market to the extent that Avatar, and especially Titanic, did in their respective years.

 

It's clear to me that, in comparison to Avatar and Titanic which both maxed or near-maxed out the potential of almost every market to the extent that a global Hollywood blockbuster can, Endgame fell short of that in a number of markets. In Europe, for example, Endgame was often only top 3 or top 5 for the year, while Titanic and Avatar, a decade or two on from their releases, still remain the biggest or near-biggest ticket sellers in comparison to all movies released since 1997 and 2009 respectively.

 

InsideKino has great comparison pages comparing Titanic, Avatar and Endgame's ticket sales in over 30 overseas markets to the movies that have been released since their respective release dates. The comparison is stark: over two decades on from its release, Titanic (see here) still remains the biggest ticket seller from December 1997 onwards in most European markets. Avatar is similar: over a decade on from its release, Avatar (see here) is still the biggest ticket seller from December 2009 onwards in a lot of European markets, and where it's been beaten, it's often only by a huge local hit. For Endgame (see here) , there's been less than a year of proper releases since its own release in April 2019, but it's only the admissions leader (from April 2019 onwards) in 3 European countries, often being beaten by lower-tier blockbusters like the Lion King, Frozen 2, and even Joker.

 

The same can be said of Japan—Marvel, and superhero movies in general, have always been relatively weak in Europe and Japan, and while Endgame did better in these markets than almost all, if not all other superhero movies, the weakness still shows. Outside of the US, Endgame's real strength was in the emerging markets—in places like India, Brazil, Mexico and Colombia—where it really did max out the market potential (it also did extremely well in South Korea and China, although I wouldn't say it maxed out the potential of either). All of those markets have obviously expanded significantly since 2009, but Avatar was similarly successful in most of those markets for its time (and significantly more so, in my opinion, in South Korea and China), often being the biggest or at worst second-biggest ticket seller of all time at the end of its run.

 

As you say, this isn't to take anything away from Endgame, which for sure has the second best box office run since Titanic, but I agree that an Avatar-sized run would be breezing past Avatar's $2.8b in the 2019 box office market with quite some ease.

 

Edited by hw64
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1 hour ago, hw64 said:

It's clear to me that, in comparison to Avatar and Titanic which both maxed or near-maxed out the potential of almost every market to the extent that a global Hollywood blockbuster can, Endgame fell short of that in a number of markets. 

Couldn't agree more. Endgame's run was and is a phenomenal achievement. I think one just has to look at the top five movies when each of these were  released in order to get a picture on what was possible at the time. When Titanic released the second highest grossing movie hadn't even reached $1 billion. When Avatar released the second highest grossing movie hadn't even reached $2 billion and the third hadn't reached $1.5.  The difference in the top 5 movies now is a much smaller number.

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1 hour ago, hw64 said:

In Europe, for example, Endgame was often only top 3 or top 5 for the year,

That is where the conversation should focus, the big argument for Endgames above the previous great is that it would have faced much greater competition, making it hard to create a distance for itself above the usual rest, which is not and empty argument at all.

 

But in 2019 quite mediocre with mediocre reception movies like The lion kings remake and frozen 2 did more than 150% of  a mediocre Harry Potter in 2009. Is competition had some giant name for sure, but not that bigger than Potter and movies wise just not serious competition, that it can be easily throw away why is domination do not come in the same territory not even close.

Edited by Barnack
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2 hours ago, charlie Jatinder said:

ROTK will remain bigger.

And that was exceptional, with 3 best picture type of movies delivered in a row during a spur of home media enthusiast to make following sequel easier than in the past.

 

That show how special the MCU giant run is in a way, it is like doing 3 lord of the ring a row.

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I mean yeah. Anyone can go and watch an original film, but for a serialised franchise, only those who are following the franchise can watch it, which in MCU span over 20 films now. 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, charlie Jatinder said:

I mean yeah. Anyone can go and watch an original film, but for a serialised franchise, only those who are following the franchise can watch it, which in MCU span over 20 films now.

Yeah honestly its so much harder for a franchise film to make money man, its a miracle that the few franchise films released even make their budget back.

 

By the way if everyone here didn't know Avatar is very likely to get a remastered release, when it gets a true global rerelease I'm fully expecting TItanic tier release numbers. Also note I can source things I say.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1511956871

- “Obviously the Avatar films will be as well, and in fact, we’re also going to do a conversion of Avatar to HDR. We’ll re-release that at some point down the line.”

 

 

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1 hour ago, charlie Jatinder said:

I mean yeah. Anyone can go and watch an original film, but for a serialised franchise, only those who are following the franchise can watch it, which in MCU span over 20 films now. 

 

 

This is more nonsense lol. 
 

Sure, the film doesn’t stand on its own. But not everyone who went to see Avengers Endgame had seen all of the previous films. If so, why didn’t they ever show up at the box office?


You do realise it’s much harder for original films than it is gigantic franchises.  

 

Anyway, congrats Avatar! 

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3 minutes ago, k88 said:

Sorry I have one more question how long will Avatar stay in cinemas? Only this weekend, or like 1-2 months. Thanks in advance.

45 days.

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31 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Eh, the gap between the two is not going to be huge. Avatar is on its 4th re-release, Endgame should at least get one more.

Avatar only have one worldwide re-release back in 2010, just like Endgame.

 

You can't see one place putting it on theaters again and call it a re-relase just because it suits the narrative.

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I do not get the debate about 1, 2 or N re-releases. If a film is able to attract people to the theaters, it does not matter if it gets it during the OW or 20 years later. An admission is an admission, no matters when it is sold.

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2 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

 

By the way if everyone here didn't know Avatar is very likely to get a remastered release, when it gets a true global rerelease I'm fully expecting TItanic tier release numbers. Also note I can source things I say.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1511956871

- “Obviously the Avatar films will be as well, and in fact, we’re also going to do a conversion of Avatar to HDR. We’ll re-release that at some point down the line.”

 

 

I highly, highly doubt that a remastered theatrical rerelease is making $300 mil worldwide. Most people don't really care enough about remasters for it to make considerably more than what a normal re-release would. It'd likely make as much as the previous Avatar rereleases have made at best.

 

And it's likely gonna take years for Cameron to do an Avatar 4k remaster anyways. He has been promising to do The Abyss and True Lies remasters for years now and those still haven't happened.

 

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Yes it's easier to get people to see franchise films but it gets to a point where you inevitably have people because of the franchise not wanting to see the film whereas if an original film truly breaks out there is no limit to how many people could watch it. In any case though congrats to Avatar again despite not loving it still really excited for the sequels.

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